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-   -   Mould: a controversy as old as time itself (http://www.oddworldforums.net/showthread.php?t=17568)

Bullet Magnet 12-03-2008 05:18 PM

Mould: a controversy as old as time itself
 
I'm always dissecting my bread and cheese to eliminate mouldy patches.

I announce, with no apparent context nor motivation.

Nate 12-03-2008 07:36 PM

That's dangerous. If there's a spot of visible mould, there are miniscule roots going through the entire loaf.

Alcar 12-03-2008 08:15 PM

Crap. All these years!

Alcar...

Bullet Magnet 12-03-2008 11:00 PM

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That's dangerous. If there's a spot of visible mould, there are miniscule roots going through the entire loaf.

Which means that it was also riddled with hyphae before the fruiting bodies appeared, when you would have had no problem eating it.

Besides, the only toxins Rhizopus stolonifer produces are Ergoline alcaloids, which are only harmful to plants in such quantities and are LSD precursors used in many medications.

Nate 12-04-2008 12:51 AM

There are many types of mould.

Bullet Magnet 12-04-2008 01:13 AM

Yes, but the only mould I risk eating more than any of us do is Rhizopus. Anything old enough to get anything else is visibly the property of fungi.

Havoc 12-04-2008 10:38 AM

It's always funny how people cut the mould off cheese. Is a moulding piece of food not an indicator that you should not eat it anymore?

Bullet Magnet 12-04-2008 01:07 PM

Cheese is cheese because it is mouldy. Besides, food is only spoiled because decomposers move in, it's not some ethereal property of perishables that they become no good to eat purely because of their age. As soon as food is exposed to the open air, they begin decomposing, you just can't see it yet. As I say, we have no problem eating all the bacteria and hyphae that swarm our foods, but once a few stolon specks appear, oh noes!

Havoc 12-04-2008 02:47 PM

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Cheese is cheese because it is mouldy. Besides, food is only spoiled because decomposers move in, it's not some ethereal property of perishables that they become no good to eat purely because of their age. As soon as food is exposed to the open air, they begin decomposing, you just can't see it yet. As I say, we have no problem eating all the bacteria and hyphae that swarm our foods, but once a few stolon specks appear, oh noes!

Cheese is not mouldy by default. Also I don't know about you but when I grab a piece of cheese to cut some slices off to put on my bread, I won't just go 'hm, it's just some mould' if entire strings of mould are penetrating my cheese and entire mould rain forests are forming on the surface. Are you saying that you would cut off that rain forest and put it on your bread and eat it? Since it's not bad for you?

I don't give a crap about if mould makes me sick or not. Even if an entire block of cheese has been turned into pure mould and it would be GOOD for you I still wouldn't eat it because I want my cheese to taste like cheese and not like some goddamn half plant half fungus half dead animal half dead baby fetus (see what I did there? I took one cheese and made two cheese).

Nate 12-04-2008 03:10 PM

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Cheese is cheese because it is mouldy. Besides, food is only spoiled because decomposers move in, it's not some ethereal property of perishables that they become no good to eat purely because of their age. As soon as food is exposed to the open air, they begin decomposing, you just can't see it yet. As I say, we have no problem eating all the bacteria and hyphae that swarm our foods, but once a few stolon specks appear, oh noes!

That's like saying "Every day I breathe in small amounts carbon monoxide and it hasn't killed me yet; maybe I'll start breathing from a gas tank full of the stuff".

Havoc 12-04-2008 03:56 PM

Nate just took my entire argument and squeezed it into a single sentence.

I feel violated :(

Bullet Magnet 12-04-2008 08:04 PM

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Cheese is not mouldy by default. Also I don't know about you but when I grab a piece of cheese to cut some slices off to put on my bread, I won't just go 'hm, it's just some mould' if entire strings of mould are penetrating my cheese and entire mould rain forests are forming on the surface. Are you saying that you would cut off that rain forest and put it on your bread and eat it? Since it's not bad for you?

I think our wires are crossed. I cut off the edge of the cheese with small white/blue patches growing on it, losing about an inch around the spoiled areas. I discard soft cheeses with mould that was not part of the manufacturing process straight away, since foods which high moisture content (which I wasn't discussing anyway) will have been properly spoiled beneath the surface. I do not eat hairy great green monstrosities.

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That's like saying "Every day I breathe in small amounts carbon monoxide and it hasn't killed me yet; maybe I'll start breathing from a gas tank full of the stuff".

That's hardly an adequate comparison. At the rate of growth of common bread moulds, the increase of fungal matter between the first visible appearance of mould growth and quantities immediately preceding it is less than the amount removed when the visibly spoiled portions are sheered off, if that doesn't remove it all entirely.

Nate 12-04-2008 08:38 PM

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That's hardly an adequate comparison. At the rate of growth of common bread moulds, the increase of fungal matter between the first visible appearance of mould growth and quantities immediately preceding it is less than the amount removed when the visibly spoiled portions are sheered off, if that doesn't remove it all entirely.
I dispute that fact. I once saw an... err... whatever an expert in moulds is called... on a tv show claiming quite the opposite.

Bullet Magnet 12-04-2008 08:54 PM

Mycologist.

I've been working on mould growth this semester in one of my courses. You can see the hyphae growth cloud the agar beneath and around the sporangium.

Wil 12-05-2008 03:31 AM

I never hang on to bread long enough for it to go mouldy. I did, however, once find a small beetle inhabiting the surface of one of my baking potatoes (pre‐baking). My technique is the same for both: remove the visibly distressing bits, eat the rest, and don’t feel ill.

Havoc 12-05-2008 04:46 AM

I have bad habbits when it comes to bread. Sometimes I just forget it's there and when I find it two months later I have this bag of pure mould in my hands. Next time it happens I'll snap a picture :p.

OANST 12-05-2008 06:15 AM

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Mycologist.

I believe that the correct term is Mouldologist. They prefer to be called Mould Men, though.


As a kid I would just cut the offending area off. I no longer am willing to do this. I just pitch it, now.

Hobo 12-05-2008 06:22 AM

ITT: Bullet Magnet rapes us WITH SCIENCE

Wil 12-05-2008 06:46 AM

OTF: Bullet Magnet rapes us WITH SCIENCE.

Munch's Master 12-05-2008 10:27 AM

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*fancy talk thats too smart for me at this time in the evening*

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Mycologist.

You just know everything don't you BM? Any question and you can answer it with your big Quantum King brain.

OANST 12-05-2008 10:44 AM

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You just know everything don't you BM? Any question and you can answer it with your big Quantum King brain.

And thank god for you, sir. Without comments like this his head would never grow to a size suitable for his brain. Thank god for you.

Munch's Master 12-05-2008 11:21 AM

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And thank god for you, sir. Without comments like this his head would never grow to a size suitable for his brain. Thank god for you.

I do my best to help out. In this age of overpopulation space is limited, so I figured he needed all the headroom he could get. Glad you appreciate it.

Pilot 12-08-2008 10:42 PM

Anyone ever had their pot grow mold by keeping orange peels in with it too long? It's still good. :confused:

OANST 12-09-2008 06:04 AM

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Anyone ever had their pot grow mold by keeping orange peels in with it too long? It's still good. :confused:

No.

Pilot 12-09-2008 08:56 AM

I find it amusing. One of by friends has had this problem on more than one occasion. I told him to stop buying so much because after sitting around several weeks (even with the peels to keep it fresh) it just gets old. I don't know for sure, but the burning of the mold (though he 'picks out the moldy spots') still can't be good.

Nate 12-09-2008 03:38 PM

Surely just leaving out the orange peel would improve matters? I would have thought that dried leaves would last ages, but when damp citrus peel is added to the equation, moisture is the essence of wetness.

Pilot 12-09-2008 08:50 PM

Yeah.... but the idea is that the orangepeels keep it fresher longer- pot has a tendency to lose potency as it ages and dries out. "GOOD" buds, as I understand it, such as the stuff grown in hydroponic controlled conditions, kind of 'ooze' with dampness so drying it out is not the best thing to do. The idea I think is to pick it and use it asap, not get it and let it sit around a long time.

I'm sure there's got to at least be one other person here who knows more about this. :rolleyes:

OANST 12-10-2008 05:47 AM

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Yeah.... but the idea is that the orangepeels keep it fresher longer- pot has a tendency to lose potency as it ages and dries out. "GOOD" buds, as I understand it, such as the stuff grown in hydroponic controlled conditions, kind of 'ooze' with dampness so drying it out is not the best thing to do. The idea I think is to pick it and use it asap, not get it and let it sit around a long time.

I'm sure there's got to at least be one other person here who knows more about this. :rolleyes:

There was a time. But that time has passed. Also, I deny all knowledge of that time.

Mojo 12-10-2008 08:34 AM

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Cheese is not mouldy by default. Also I don't know about you but when I grab a piece of cheese to cut some slices off to put on my bread, I won't just go 'hm, it's just some mould' if entire strings of mould are penetrating my cheese and entire mould rain forests are forming on the surface. Are you saying that you would cut off that rain forest and put it on your bread and eat it? Since it's not bad for you/

http://www.receptenmetkaas.nl/images/gorgonzola.jpg

Gorgonzola.

Wil 12-10-2008 12:45 PM

I always hated the cheese that was meant to be mouldy. It was mouldy and also it tasted vile.

Bullet Magnet 12-10-2008 02:53 PM

Brie is my favourite, and that is encased in mould. In fact, I think the mould may itself be mouldy.

Nate 12-10-2008 03:29 PM

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I always hated the cheese that was meant to be mouldy. It was mouldy and also it tasted vile.

Yeah, but you don't like eating cheese full stop. Your opinion counts for naught.

Bullet Magnet 12-10-2008 05:53 PM

Yeah, what would you be doing eating cheese?

Wil 12-11-2008 06:48 AM

I would be 2+ years ago.

Havoc 12-12-2008 06:08 AM

I do not GET mouldy cheese! WHO came up with the idea of turning a moulding piece of cheese into an actual product?

Yes Mojo, Gorgonzola is mouldy just like a lot of other cheeses, but I meant that when cheese is first made it's not mouldy. Like wine, it changes over time. You start with young cheese, then aged cheese, then old cheese and from there you get the mouldy cheeses I think. I could be wrong but I don't think you can make a cheese mouldy from the start :s.

Bullet Magnet 12-12-2008 06:44 AM

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There are three main categories of cheese in which the presence of mold is a significant feature: soft ripened cheeses, washed rind cheeses and blue cheeses.
Soft-ripened cheeses are those which begin firm and rather chalky in texture but are aged from the exterior inwards by exposing them to mold. The mold may be a velvety bloom of Penicillium candida or P. camemberti that forms a flexible white crust and contributes to the smooth, runny, or gooey textures and more intense flavors of these aged cheeses. Brie and Camembert, the most famous of these cheeses, are made by allowing white mold to grow on the outside of a soft cheese for a few days or weeks. Goats' milk cheeses are often treated in a similar manner, sometimes with white molds (Chèvre-Boîte) and sometimes with blue.

Washed-rind cheeses are soft in character and ripen inwards like those with white molds; however, they are treated differently. Washed rind cheeses are periodically cured in a solution of saltwater brine and other mold-bearing agents which may include beer, wine, brandy and spices, making their surfaces amenable to a class of bacteria Brevibacterium linens (the reddish-orange "smear bacteria") which impart pungent odors and distinctive flavors. Washed-rind cheeses can be soft (Limburger), semi-hard (Munster), or hard (Appenzeller). The same bacteria can also have some impact on cheeses that are simply ripened in humid conditions, like Camembert.

So-called Blue cheese is created by inoculating a cheese with Penicillium roqueforti or Penicillium glaucum. This is done while the cheese is still in the form of loosely pressed curds, and may be further enhanced by piercing a ripening block of cheese with skewers in an atmosphere in which the mold is prevalent. The mold grows within the cheese as it ages. These cheeses have distinct blue veins which gives them their name, and, often, assertive flavors. The molds may range from pale green to dark blue, and may be accompanied by white and crusty brown molds.Their texture can be soft or firm. Some of the most renowned cheeses are of this type, each with its own distinctive color, flavor, texture and smell. They include Roquefort, Gorgonzola, and Stilton.

What you have in mind seems to be more along the lines of Casu Marzu

OANST 12-12-2008 07:58 AM

You people are putting me off cheese forever.

By you people I mean Australians.

Bullet Magnet 12-12-2008 08:03 AM

We will then move on to the other food groups as we progressively eliminate edible substances from your diet.

Wil 12-12-2008 08:54 AM

It will do wonders for your carbon footprint.

Nate 12-12-2008 05:40 PM

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You people are putting me off cheese forever.

By you people I mean Australians.

What have Australians got to do with it? We're not even legally allowed to sell soft cheese or unpasteurised milk.


BM: This is a bit of a silly discussion. The specific species of mould implanted in certain types of cheese are very different from the ones that grow after the cheese was left uncovered on a bench for half an hour one day. If you've ever seen a cheese factory, they go to extraordinary efforts to control the air quality going in and out of the storerooms, to make sure that only the good (ie non-toxic) moulds come in contact with the little baby cheeses.