Rescue methods for Queen Sam
 

We all know that Abe was supposed to rescue his mother Queen Sam in Munch's Oddysee but OWI couldn't due to time restrictions. Yet even if he did find her how would he rescue her? It's not like she can just get up and jump through a bird portal with that large egg producing body of hers. So post your ideas here.

I don't see why She couldn't. I think that the real problem would be getting her out of her chains, and past the Shrinks.

Great topic, by the way.;)

I think it would be less about Abe and more about Munch. The first thing that would needed to be accomplished is that Munch would need to be to an over-righting system. As you can see, there is huge guns nearby the Shrinks in the concept art. I figured Munch would need possess those guns to shoot down the Shrinks. Or in theory, Munch would need to get around the facility trying to get the Roids. Either way, he would be needed to destory the Shrinks and the rest of the machinery. And as Abe commanded the Mudokons to gather up all of the eggs and cut Sam's chains, Munch would be off doing something else. He would be collecting Kinto Slaves in Vykker Labs, who will lift Sam off the ground and get her outta of the place. Sam could just be lifted into Lulu's blimp, which will lead both Abe and Munch somewhere else, where the whole Lab to be destroyed.

Edit: Maybe Munch will actually have Flying Meetles actually carry off Sam to somewhere like the Monsasic Lines.

I'd say he'd work out how to breed a new queen then kill Sam so the Vykkers no longer have her. That way he doesn't need to put up with her pathetic whining and can mould the new queen to be his powerful puppet!!

A group of mudokon spoocebowers and tomahawkers would do the trick :)

Is her body like that all the time?
Maybe a Mudokon shaman could create a bird portal, Abe possess some Sligs, Munch possess some Shrinks, while some Mudarchers fire at the rest, and after that a load of Mudokon slaves lift sam up from behind and tilt her into the bird portal, which would lead to a Mudokon village/nest. Then the slaves follow her, Abe and Munch rig the place with bombs and jump through the portal! Phew... :)

Moving Sam with Kintos would be a good way to mirror Maggie’s sedan transport, but it would involve Abe having to put them through a torturous situation. Maybe they would cooperate willingly. Maybe the Shrink would even help if he was offered freedom from Sam and the Vykkers, but how the Tree Huggers could provide that is another problem to be thought about.

Maybe Munch's possession of technology could help somewhat, or even force a Vykker to create a Shrink legs or something it can walk around on and let it go.

That sounds good, I like that idea.
I don't know... do you guys think that the Kintos would participate? And I cirtainly think that the Shrinks would not, no matter what they were offered.
You know, the Kintos have been lugging Maggie around for quite some time now, have become addapt to that and even though she does not treat them well, they may have gained some loyalty towards her.

Something tells me that Sam is very precious to the Magog Cartel, and would be ridiculously guarded - I mean RIDICULOUSLY - I'm talking, literally thousands of Big Bro Sligs. It's quite likely that the muds have tried to rescue Sam before, and obviously failed. I couldn't imagine it possible, maybe the muds can be brave, but to some degree, blitzpackers can be alot more effective than bravery :P The only thing harder to do would be to kidnap Maggie or Skillya (I think that's right...).

Maybe if there was an insider, that might work - perhaps possession could put that into play, but I still don't think it would be particularly doable.

(OT: Has anyone else noticed Skillya sounds a bit like Scylla, a monster from The Odyssey by Homer?)

I don't know that they could offer freedom to the Shrink - it's not like they have electricity in the native villages. Given his self-loathing, perhaps the greatest gift they could give him would be to shut him down.

The Shrink has senses of self‐awareness and self‐preservation, not self‐loathing.

Damn my decomposing memory. I blame the lack of Alfing to refresh what little knowledge I have.

I love how no-one is calling me out on my failry psychotic suggestions in this thread.

Sounds? Is her voice ever heard? I never played MO...
Kintos are said to absolutely hate anything being above their heads. If they were given freedom, I doubt the'd help if it involved more having stuff above their head.
Even though there are apparently (I mean, OBVIOUSLY) thousands of Big bro's protecting Sam, surely the power of Shrykull could fry the lot to sort that particular problem out? Maybe the Shrykull was to be included in MO too, but had to be cut.
Sure would've helped...screw that Lulu malarky, just charge in there and fry everyone with lightning, then make off with the Gabbiar. Surely alot easier than going through the whole rest of the game...? :P

A Shrykull add-in would make the game even better, they should make it so Abe has a limit break thing like on the Final Fantasy series, and when the bar fills you press a button and you start rapidly electrocuting things, it would be great for a boss level!

Shrykull is in da factory.

Shrykull wouldn't make it into the game even if everything OWI wanted was in Munch's Oddysee. Actually, Shrykull was cut out because they didn't want to have Abe have any more attention than he needs to.

Kinto Slaves wouldn't know that they are going to have something above their head, since they have no eyes. But that brings up the question whether they can hear very well.

I highly doubt the Big Bro guard thing. It would have to be more like Snoozers, since Sligs would just fall asleep on the job.

Kintos still must be able to sense they have something above their heads, otherwise they wouldn't hate it. They would certainly be able to feel Sam's weight on them.

Do Big Bro's fall asleep though? because they are only selected to get the steroids if they are efficient workers, like Flying Sligs.
Snoozers would probably be present as well as Big Bro's and Flying Sligs on the job.

Max, is that Munch possessing a robot or summat? Since that is not Shrykull. What it would be like...apart from the absence of a huge, salviating monster, off course.

Really? How do you know that?

That is interesting. They do have eye sockets, which means they must have gone a long time with eyesight being of absolutely no evolutionary advantage to them.

There’re sleeping big bros in Munch’s Oddysee that Abe can sneak past. There are also Sligs that have been upgraded just because the CEO wants more security (i.e. those inside Magog Motors).

What robot? True I can’t see Shrykull, but I can’t see a robot, either.

Umm, I always thought that was just some kind of electricity in the walls.

I was guessing it was a floor panel or a mine or something.
Kintos live up in mountains normally, but the fact they obviously have no eyes is no biggie. Scrabs nor Paramites don't have eyes, but they can still sense their way around easily enough. I presume Kintos sense their surroundings in a simlar way, whatever that way may be.
I doubt they have many predators either. I mean, they're like a Superman Sqhwarzenegger (or however you spell it) on drugs. Seriously. Those muscles punching you with that pointy end bit has got to hurt.
...which makes me wonder how the Magog Cartel keeps them under control. It seems unlikely they're kept under control via threatening with guns or something, they seem too animalistic for that. And the work they're used for is also like that of an animal, yet we have not seen them employ Scrabs or paramites for other tasks.

Kintos are described as peaceful, so they probably don’t attack their captors, but if they felt like getting aggressive, the chain that pierces their lip would keep them in place.

Also, given their ungainly appearance, it may be difficult for them to fight back. They don't have arms so they can't punch and they probably can't kick far without losing balance. Their only option would be to headbutt their enemies.

Oh yeah, the lip chain. Fair enough.
Still, a headbutt from that thing is going to cause pain to any offending Slig.

I think that a headbutt from any creature bigger than a Slog could injure a Slig.

In my thoughts, I always had an idea that Kintos would be used less for attacking other animals, and more for carrying large objects. That's why I used the idea of them carrying Sam.

You'd need an incredible amount of them (depending on their size) to be able to lift Sam, I think. She's really huge, so I don't think moving her would be an option without some heavy-duty machinery. What I thought would happen was that she would be rescued the same way Abe was rescued at the end of AO, lots of mudokons chanting, teleporting her away. But I think a lot of mudokons would be needed, since she's so big, and that any anti-chant devices in the area would have to be destroyed, as well as the room cleared while Sam is being transported (since it looks like it takes some time).

Why would anyone want to save Sam anyway? Would you want to put with her whining and complaining?

She's Abe's mother for god's sake, of course he wants to save her, even if she is a whining bitch! :p But I see what you're getting at...

Well think of it this way. Sometimes, bees will kill the queen and try to start again with a new queen. See where I'm going?

I feel sorry for Sam, I wish you could see Abe and Munch save her, I wish you could play as Abe and Munch while doing it!
Wouldn't they have to look hard for a new queen? I mean, they'd have to find some sort of female Mudokon tribe to do it...

With bees, normally new queen eggs hatch and sometimes kill the original queen and take over. But the original queen is needed to produce the egg for a new queen to hatch from in the first place.
About 10 Kintos carry Lady margeret around, so I'd estimate perhaps 20 or so are needed to lift Sam.

Is Maggie like a snake? In the picture of her on the net she has a long body and loads of legs...

There are two rather dissimilar images of Magagie: one where she's in the Magog conference room yelling at her lackies and one where she's on a sedan being dragged by Kintos. She looks different in each one and we don't know which one (if either) is canon.

I presumed that the 'second' on was canon. Particularly thinking that her lungs were the same size as a Gabbits, they'd probably be in the front, smaller portion of her body. That design also had detailed facial characters etc., as well as other species being designed and implemented here, the Kintos and Gloktigi.

Until we see it in a game on the shelf or a movie in the cinema, nothing is canon. For further reference on this point, see: "Toads, Scuba" or "Munch's Oddysee, The Entire Game".

yeah, it's a bit confusing, we're never sure when something is actually keeped by OWI or official

My favourite further reading on the topic: the history of Abe’s Moon.

Personally, given Lorne’s frustrations over what ideas and concepts he can realise with the technology available, I suspect that what’s canonical on Oddworld is more in line with what was intended for the games that what we actually get.

I just think that Abe should just sneak past the gaurds, and has sam lay other queen egg. That way Abe just has to sneak one egg away, not sam and all her mudokon.

Maybe Sam is too depressed to lay a queen egg? Or perhaps Mudokons are like bees, in that the larva needs to be given a special diet in order to become a queen, otherwise its just another worker. If that is the case, then as long as a young mudokon cannot be given that 'secret ingredient' there won't be another mudokon queen. But now that Abe has those labor eggs, perhaps all is not lost? (assuming that the natives know what that substance is, if any)

They need to rescue Sam because in ~20 years all the natives will certainly be dead. Which raises an interesting point - either there is another queen or the Cartel can't have had Sam for more than 40 years, as the natives were born in the wild, and are not more than 40 years old (give or take a couple).

My reasoning on the natives dying - Abe is 17 (I think) and was born in captivity. This means that the Cartel has had her for at least 17 years.A mud's life is 40 years, so in 23 years at most there will be no natives left (probably less)