Hello
 

Hello Oddworld Forum Members.
I have started this thread, because I am sick to death of several people.

The first kind of people I am sick to death of, are Spammers, although we haven’t seen much of that lately (Or maybe I’m used to seeing it now so I don’t notice) but either way, I would just like to tell you that what you’re doing is pointless, and nobody finds it funny or whatever emotion you want us to have when we read it.

The Second kind of people I hate, are forum Bullies. I am not going to name any but presumably they know what they’re doing and they know who they are .This bullying doesn’t come in the form of physical abuse, but it comes in the form of mental and verbal abuse. If someone makes a cock up, or hasn’t quite done something the same way you would do it, you don’t flame at them, or be horrible just for the sake of being horrible, you ignore it. I made the mistake of flaming once and I got a warning for it, therefore I learnt my lesson and stopped. What is wrong with some people, who just don’t realise when to stop being nasty and horrible. If you are angry, don’t take it out on Forum Members. If someone is nice to you, don’t decide “I want to be nasty to this member, because he’s nice”, post something nice back, and if you can’t say anything nice then don’t say anything at all.

I don’t care who reads this, I don’t really care if you are any of the above. I don’t care if you think I am weak and can’t handle a few insults, because I can, I just feel that when I’m on the Oddworld forums when the troublemakers are online, I’m in a bad environment. We come here out of option just like you too, and if you’re trying to force people to leave, then you’re doing a damn good job of it. People should know that this kind of behaviour is wrong. It doesn’t impress anyone unless a victim of these wrongdoings stands up to the bully.

I know I probably haven’t got a message through, because these kinds of people often don’t care anyway. But thank you for taking the time to read my post.

Yours sincerely,
Fuzzle Guy

About the bullyin thing you are correct, when I first joined here I sensed the same negative atmosphere and this caused me to leave for a while. If people continue in this manner on this forum then it wont be long before it's closed. There will be a lack of new members joining because of the downsizing of the company and the lack of new products, and if certain memebers continue the bitchyness then people who are already a memeber will start to leave....:fuzvamp:

I totaly agree!
I think that if someone on the forums is pissing you off, you need to get off for an hour or so and take that time to calm down or you should talk calmy to the person that you are not getting along with and work it out.

Ive been here for about two months and have seen about three huge flame wars.

If you're mad at the Forum Members, it makes sense to take it out on them.

Mission accomplished.

Explain to me how that makes sense.

I meant that if you're angry outside of the forums, like you had a crap day or something.

And I think he's trying to say that everyone will leave the forums, and there will be no new members, therefore leaving the bullies on it, and if the bullies have no one to bully, then they will leave too!!! But I don't quite understand that either

Yeah, well, venting in a place where you can't physically hurt someone is oftentimes the best way to go.

The resilient members can handle themselves around bullies. One mean person will not convince them to leave.

But sometimes they ca nthreaten to physically hurt you. Although the chances of tracking them down are highly unlikey, it can still worry the victim.

And there are so many mean people on the forums, that people will leave just because they don't want to bother with these n00bs.

They must be idiotic to be worried then.

You just called them n00bs, does that make you a bully?

Funny, Fuzzle Guy, you're one of the people who vents his anger here.

When did I vent my anger here on these forums? Now is to try and stop the people who do this.

That doesn't make me a bully as I am simply fighting back. An Eye for an Eye a tooth for a tooth

god bless america people very good speach

I think you were wrong to post that. What you deem 'nice' may not be what others see as 'nice'. Everyone's opinions are valid and should be heard equally, you shouldn't shun others just because you don't agree with people. Ironically, you're being slightly like what you're trying to prevent.

I get your valid point, yes, alot of us have become forum bullies. Myself included. But none of us are angels in this matter, it's not right for someone to put themselves on a pedastal, because we've all been a "forum bully" at some point in our foruming 'career'. Yes, some more than others and whilst some may be trying to turn themselves around, others are becoming bullies. It doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to their points because we've all been in the same boat.

In my opinion this has been a wake up call, and for me personally, I will try to be less... Passionate. As that is how I would like to describe myself recently. [Although that is only masking it with a fancy name...] I would like to publicly apologise if I've hurt anyone recently.

But I would like to face facts. Most of us are becoming bullies due to lack of conversation, because this forum is dying. Don't get me wrong, I love this place to pieces, I've grown up here and I'd do pretty much anything to make it 'better'. But if things carry on, with or without the bullying, the forums will die.

But I am truely sorry.

- Rexy

"An eye for an eye leaves everybody blind."

Did you not learn anything from MLK?

All I have to say is if you feel someone is seriously attempting to bully you to an extent that you're actually afraid to post because of that person, contact the staff, and one of them will talk with that person or even punish him/her. Kay? :)

Yes! God bless you as well for such excellent speech!


Two moths? Please, you've hardly been here one month. Do not try to put time under your belt because it was nothing like it is now when I came here.

Oh look! It's some drama.

Let's go through why this is wrong/fuck the system, shall we?

We're sick to death of you too, but do we make stupid threads complaining about it? No.

I think we've already covered the fact that we're sick to death of you.

NO SHIT! You're kidding?

Whoa. This guy is just one revelation after another.

Telling people how to behave isn't going to get you anywhere. Trust me on that one.

No you didn't.

Freedom of speech, melonhead. If I want to say something I'll say it. Not all opinions are positive or even friendly, but everyone has the right to express them. Imagine how sickeningly fake and boring this place would be if all anyone ever did is just make nice comments to each other because they don't have the balls to say how they really feel.

Besides, the kind of utopian ideal you're trying to encourage here only forces people to go behind each-other's backs, gossip over PMs and bottle up their feelings, which eventually results in angry explosions of flaming and such.

That explains why you have a problem with people who can't say anything nice. No, wait... no it doesn't. Stop drooling on your keyboard, Timmy.

You know what they say. When you find yourself in a bad neighbourhood...

Fuck you I won't do what you tell me. [/RATM]

Fuzzle Guy, you should report flaming of any form. You should also report spam (which hopefully will stay in a declining trend).
This is the most effective way of sorting something out. Obviously you've been bottling this up before you made a thread about it. DON'T. Just report it.

Kimon, IMHO, you are encouraging flaming. If you're angry at someone on the forum, you shouldn't flame them. I'm aware you didn't use the term flame, but you did say:
Also, discouraging new members will only cause a forum to go under. There is no sence in saying "Mission accomplished".

Dino, dude, unexeptable posting. Freedom of speech (in ANY comunity or country) does not extend indefinitly. Slander is a crime. On forums, flaming is against the rules. And on a forum with potentialy young members, profanity should NOT be used.

To EVERYONE that is going to reply (or has already replied), read the rules. After you've read them, try following them.

Okay, I have hardly given my opinion in this, so here it is. Freedom of speech can't be confined or repressed because of almost any forum you will see flaming like how it is here unless those forums are led by tight asses will go all nazi on you if you even goive reference to flaming or spam. So flaming must be less restricted than other forums unless you all want to be held in lock down. So don't be pussies and cry if someone flamed you, chances are that person is a miserable low life who sits in his basement all day eating subs and posting on forums.

As for you Fuzzle man, this is the image of your soul that pops up in my head:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...use/fatman.jpg

I hope you enjoy the stinking geyser fields!

Are you serious?

Duh.

Why?

I'm discouraging idiots, not new members.

Jokealones.

Are you surious?

Maybe we should have an age limit. o_0

Even the mods flame idiots. Geez Louise.

What the hell is wrong with you all? Could you be any more immature and disrespectful?

"I'm so awesome that I'm going to break down a serious, thoughtful post sentence by sentence with condescending sarcasm."

For shame.

Don't be a fool Ambi. You did the same rotten thing on Dino's rant about forum evils and such.

I would never be so horrible to a member posting with a sincere desire to better the forums like Adder here for example. But yes, I am guilty of trying to defeat fire with fire.

How ironic it is that a thread started about the over all respect towards other members shows just how horrible we can be to each other? Ugh, somethings really make me think about leaving sometimes. Besides, there I frequenting another forum that I'm starting to like better anyway. None of this nonsense of there. [/random thoughts]

*cheesy music comes on*

um grammar please, and used:) you haven't auctually been here that long... but you still consider yourself 'veteran' odd isn't it?, any way these posts on 'spamming' or 'flamming' or forum behavior always end up in a fight, dude this is pathetic, are people even mature? (note: i am not implying that im any better)

Exactly how do I consider myself a veteren? Please, enlighten me with one good example and I will give you a piece of carrot cake. And I think it's you who needs to work on their grammar skills.

'Two moths? Please, you've hardly been here one month. Do not try to put time under your belt because it was nothing like it is now when I came here',

the whole 'it was nothing like it is now when i came here' thing makes you sound like you have been here for a long time and are a "veteran". As for grammar your line shoud say "because it was nothing like it was when i came here" ok,

I stated that becuase it WAS nothing like is it today. Don't accuse me of being pompous when I most certainly have not. And just because I only have a few moths to give myself credit for doesn't mean I can't look at t from a different point of view. So in the name of Saint Leto, I trumpet, SHUT YOUR BEAK.

Used, are you serious!?! You've only been here for a few months longer then I have and you screaming at me that I'm a "n00000b".
WOW!

Okay, first of all, screaming is impossible on the internet, unless we upgraded to a strange new version of VBulletin which included emoticon voices *hint hint*. If you are refering to my labeling of you, then yes, I did label you because you have been here for a half a month or little more. I, on the other hand, have been here for roughly five motghs now which was the length of time many 2005 members such as Kimon and Dino had on their names when I first joined. You stop being a n00b when people recognize you as someone with a particular post style (but I think we already recognize you as the whiny little imbicile in GD), someone with unique interests, and a having general impact on the forums itself. So quit going, "OMG, HI KALED MI A N00B ND HI ONLY HAZ BOIN HERE 5 MUNTHS MOR!!!!!!!" you stupid little dunce.

Yeah we both know for a fact that I have been here for more than half a month, more like two and a half or so. So you have not been here all that much longer than me.

And you should not go calling people stupid, whiny dunces when you are hated because of how you treat other people on this forum! You always yell at people and put them down, you always have to come up with something to get someone pissed off. I know this may sound hippicritical, but I'm just trying to make you get that you are too hard on people and may cause some to leave in the future.

There's this little thing on top of your posts that shows when youi joined. And I think I have been here quite longer than you have, you see that when you can comprehend the true time length of moths. And will you stop distorting time? You most certainly have not been here for over two months and everyone at some degree of intelligence would agree with that.

You will find that is quite common here. And you shoudl not tell other people what to do, regardless of how rotten and wicked it may seem.

I realize that its common to call someone stupid here or anywhere on this earth, but you however have taken it too far! Do you read some of your own posts and realize what you are saying to other people? Its NOT something to be proud of.

sheesh can we please stop the bickering, and cullen i would suggest not arguing with used:) there are better things in the world to do

Do YOU read some of yuor posts? You are probably one of the most annoyingn people I have ever seen on the forums, I mean, god, you never shut up.

It doesn't count as slander if it's true or if it's stated as an opinion. We have a right to state our opinions and points of view - in fact that's the whole point of a forum. If people can't take that then they're not only not fit to be on a forum, they're also not fit for life. Life isn't all plain sailing, it's not all positive, and nobody is perfect. Sometimes you get offended, sometimes you look bad, but if you know anything about life then you do the smart thing and get over it.

Now before you go getting me wrong, I'm not trying to justify flaming here... there's a line between honesty and flaming. What I am trying to do though is oppose your politically correct suggestion that entirely outlawing negative opinions and points of view will solve flaming, because it won't.

How can anyone learn how to behave if everyone is too polite to say anything? How does censorship help in this scenario? Like I said, there's certainly a point where honesty turns into an actual attack, and I think that we should be weary of that. But really, what is the point in effectively painting smiles all over the community so that nobody ever looks unhappy? What you'd be creating wouldn't be real or appealing so people would just leave, and that would defeat the point.

The mods and admins have never shown any desire to install your sort of extremist utopian ideals anyway, so I don't even know why there is any kind of discussion about it.

My posting isn't unacceptable in my opinion. Used's is maybe, but mine isn't. In fact, I was partly joking around. I doubt that I offended anyone, I expect the majority of people will probably ignore it entirely, Fuzzle Guy included.

And Ambi, I'm curious, may I ask what gives you the right to judge the sincerity of my motives and act on that judgement as though your judgement is infallable?

Dino, even if I were to say "My next-door neighbour is, in my opinion, a tight assed, beastiality supporting chicken who likes to molest hamsters" it still would count as slander (or if not slander, defimation of character). Just saying "In my opinion" does not exempt you from law.


As for my "extremist utopian ideals", I do not have a problem with people expressing a difference of opinion. In fact, I greatly encourage people expressing their opinion as long as they take the time to do it in a mature, calm way. An opinion should have something to ground it. There's no point saying "I think hell is cold" or "Spice Girls are {IMO} the best band in the world" unless you can back it up. Before posting an opinion, question it.

"How can anyone learn how to behave if everyone is too polite to say anything? How does censorship help in this scenario?"

The point of politeness is that people should be polite. I'll admit, people aren't polite. There's a kid on my road who (when he would have been around 5) called me a "lez bean".
This does not stop me from acting poilite. People should realise everyone else is a person, and treat them as they would treat themselves. (NOTE: I am not trying to religiously alter anyone, or suporting any particular religious belief. I just know we're all human. Comunities and Society require equality.)

As for censorship, if a young Odd fan sees people profaning on OWF, they'll assume it's the norm. I may be extremely old-fashioned about this, but I think censorship is necesary, but varies in intensity depending on the audience. If this site was "mature" rated, I would not encourage censorship.

As to your final statement (which I know is not directed at me), it seems that Ambi was just stating an opinion like you did. I did not see any statement of infallibility made, so it is your assumption that Ambi assumes s/he is infallable (which is probably flawed).

Ahh, censorship. So debatable with all the infriging upon each other's rights issues and whatnot. A line has to be established somewhere when it comes to censorship. The best way to describe this is "Your rights end where mine begin." In relation to forums, this would probably be considered where, like Dino just mentioned, being honest ends and attacking begins. It could also apply to profanity, mature content, etc. "I should have the right to post whatever I want" but "I should also have the right to browse the forums without seeing obscenely offensive posts." A balance is always difficult to find.

EDIT: Dino, blah, I don't really feel like getting in some argument; I will only say that of course my judgement is not infallible, especially opinions that I post when I'm half-asleep. Just so you know, my beliefs/opinions haven't really changed just my mood as I described a few days ago. If no one's going to do anything about "the problem" then might as well try to co-exist. *Shruggy*

It's WAY more fun the other way.

Apparently, my idea of flaming was skewed. I guess flaming is insulting without reason. I don't advocate this. Insults that have been provoked or are deserved, however, are perfectly valid in my opinion.

Anyway, blegh to you all.

Since your whole argument revolves around this point, I've chopped it here.

Just saying "In my opinion" DOES exempt you from the law actually. For instance, criticism, negative reviews, journalism, parody, etc. These are all allowed in the public domain in good or bad taste, profanites or not, because they represent the opinions of individuals and not facts. This is called fairness in the marketplace - just as traders have the right to sell their wares and claim that they're "the best", unsatisfied consumers have the right to point out that "they're not". This freedom to openly express discontent at the risk of causing a business to lose it's customers makes it difficult for unscrupulous businesses to make any sales. In effect it "raises the bar" so to speak.

Also, it's fine to say "The spice girls are the best band in the world in my opinion" just as it's fine to say "The christian god is the real god in my opinion". It's an opinion, not a fact, which means it's only true to one person, the person who holds that opinion. It's only wrong if you present opinion as fact.

Now, there is the small matter of intentions, which complicates things a bit - if a person expresses their opinion with an intent to insult, it becomes wrong in certain communities. An example of this would be: "In my opinion, you're a fucking moron". In some communities however, the response to that would be simply "well that's fine, that's your opinion and you have a right to that, but I disagree so we'll go our seperate ways". Even in these communities, there is usually a limit to how much of this you can get away with, but generally it's acceptable so long as you make at least an equal number of positive/constructive/nonselfish contributions.

As for censorship, there needs to be some give and take. Your rights end where mine begin is a good phrase, but can evolve difficulties if not everyone is aware of those rights, or if some feel that their rights have been breached when in fact they have not. Example; you do not have the right to go everywhere and do everything without being offended by something, as what's considered "offensive" is relative, and it would therefore be impossible to meet up to everyone's standards. But you DO have the right to go everywhere and do everything without being personally insulted.

WRONG! You cannot come all out and say "this is the best". That's why Carlsburg use the phrase "probably the best". You cannot lie in advertising without breaking laws. Unles you can systematicaly prove it's the best, you can't say it's the best.
I may not have studied law but I have studied business, so I know that I'm right on that front. As for opinion being legal exemption... well, I was only using common sence, but I'd be appauled if just three words (IMO) exempt you from defemation of character.

...I'll give you that one. Opinions need to be stated as opinions. As long as people recognise they're ONLY opinions, there's no problem.

Again, I won't actualy argue this statement since it's a pretty good one to make. However, I was more dealing with censorship as a way of stopping young ones from finding really... inapropriate things. Let's face it, OWI make games and this is a fan-forum. One must assume kids will be likely to read this. I believe profanity shouldn't be used... at all, really. But even treating this as other media, you need to crub your text to acceptable levels. (There is a word filter, after all... even if it is surprisingly easy to subvert.)

In America you can say stuff like that. Mmyep.