Weapons of Mass Destruction found!
Well Tell me what you think of this story. Did we finally find the weapons? I got this off of MSNBC.
BAGHDAD, Iraq - A roadside bomb thought to contain deadly sarin nerve agent exploded near a U.S. military convoy, the U.S. military said Monday. It was believed to be the first confirmed discovery of any of the banned weapons that the United States cited in making its case for the Iraq war. advertisement Two members of a military bomb squad were treated for “minor exposure,” but no serious injuries were reported. The chemicals were inside an artillery shell dating to the Saddam Hussein era that had been rigged as a bomb in Baghdad, said Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the chief military spokesman in Iraq. Early indications suggest that two chemical components in the shell, which are designed to combine and create sarin during flight, did not mix properly or completely upon detonation, a U.S. official said, speaking on condition of anonymity. Kimmitt, however, said a small amount of the nerve agent was released. Field-test results could be in error Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said the results were from a field test, which can be imperfect, and more analysis needed to be done. “We have to be careful,” he told an audience in Washington Monday afternoon. Rumsfeld said it may take some time to determine precisely what the chemical was. Two former weapons inspectors — Hans Blix and David Kay — said the shell was likely a stray weapon that had been scavenged by militants and did not signify that Iraq had large stockpiles of such weapons. Kimmitt said he believed that insurgents who planted the explosive didn’t know it contained the nerve agent. ‘Very small dispersal’ He said the bomb exploded “a couple of days ago” in the Iraqi capital and resulted in “very small dispersal” of the nerve agent. “The Iraqi Survey Group confirmed today that a 155-millimeter artillery round containing sarin nerve agent had been found,” said Kimmitt, the chief military spokesman in Iraq. “The round had been rigged as an IED [improvised explosive device] which was discovered by a U.S. force convoy. FREE VIDEO • Expert talks about sarin's effect May 17: MSNBC-TV’s Laurie Jennings interviews MSNBC analyst Dr. Sue Bailey about the effects of sarin. MSNBC “A detonation occurred before the IED could be rendered inoperable,” he said. U.S. soldiers who later transported the round did experience symptoms consistent with low-level nerve agent exposure, said a U.S. official speaking on the condition of anonymity. Fear of other devices U.S. officials said Monday they are concerned that other sarin-filled munitions may still exist in Iraq — and may not be well marked. They're also concerned that, because Saddam’s government never declared that any sarin or sarin-filled shells still remained, the discovery of the sarin shell is significant, the U.S. official said. Because the old “binary-type” artillery shell requires the mixing of two chemical components in separate sections of the cell to produce the sarin, it is likely that the insurgents who rigged it as a roadside bomb were unaware that it contained chemicals for producing the nerve agent rather than explosives, Kimmitt said. Use in roadside bomb called ‘virtually ineffective’ “The cell is designed to work after being fired from an artillery piece,” he said, adding that dispersing the substance from a device such as the homemade bomb "is virtually ineffective as a chemical weapon." He said two U.S. soldiers were treated for exposure to the gas as a result of what he called a “partial detonation” of the round that resulted in “very small dispersal” of the nerve agent. The source of the sarin was not immediately clear. “I’ll leave it up to the (Iraqi) Survey Group to determine” where it came from, Kimmitt said, referring to the group leading the search for weapons of mass destruction that the United States said Saddam possessed. Iraq had the deadly nerve agent in its stockpile but had declared its arsenal destroyed after the Gulf War. INTERACTIVE • The chem-bio threat The issues revolving around chemical and biological weapons But Kay, the former chief U.S. weapons inspector in Iraq, said the discovery does not provide evidence that Saddam was secretly producing weapons of mass destruction after the Gulf War, as alleged by the Bush administration to justify the war that removed him from power. May be pre-Gulf War leftover “I think all of us have known that because of the sheer volume of artillery [containing agents like sarin that were in the Iraqi arsenal prior to the Gulf War] ... that there were likely to be some of these still around Iraq,” he told MSNBC TV. “But [the discovery] doesn't speak to the issue of whether weapons of mass destruction were still being produced in Iraq in the mid-1990s.” In 1995, Japan's Aum Shinrikyo cult unleashed sarin gas in Tokyo's subways, killing 12 people and sickening thousands. In February of this year, Japanese courts convicted the cult's former leader, Shoko Asahara, and sentenced him to be executed. Developed in the mid-1930s by Nazi scientists, a single drop of sarin can cause a quick, agonizing choking death. There are no known instances of the Nazis actually using the gas. Nerve gases work by inhibiting key enzymes in the nervous system, blocking their transmission. Small exposures can be treated with antidotes, if administered quickly. Antidotes to nerve gases similar to sarin are so effective that top poison-gas researchers predict they eventually will cease to be a war threat. The Bush administration cited allegations that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction as a main reason for launching the war in Iraq last year. Related story Powell: Prewar intel on mobile weapons labs was 'wrong' Frustrated survey group The Iraq Survey Group, made up of dozens of teams, has been conducting a secretive and largely fruitless weapons hunt across Iraq for more than a year. The survey group combines members of the CIA, the Defense Intelligence Agency, U.S. military special forces and others. The team has run into a number of dead ends. In January, for example, field tests on discovered mortar shells near Qurnah in southern Iraq indicated a blister agent was in the shells. But followup tests indicated that the munitions did not contain the agents, though U.S. officials said Saddam had such agents in the early to mid-1990s. Blix, the former U.N. weapons inspector, said in Sweden on Monday that before the war, his team found 16 empty warheads that were marked for use with sarin. He said it was likely the sarin gas used could have been from a leftover shell found in a chemical dump. “It doesn’t sound absurd at all. There can be debris from the past, and that’s a very different thing from have stocks and supplies,” he said. U.N.: 20 percent of Saddam chemical weapons sarin-linked According to U.N. weapons inspectors, sarin-type agents constituted about 20 percent of all chemical weapons agents that Saddam’s government declared it had produced. The accounting for sarin was one of a dozen remaining disarmament tasks that inspectors submitted to the U.N. Security Council in March 2003, said Ewen Buchanan, a spokesman for the U.N. inspectors. “Iraq was known to possess a lot of this material, and there were questions about the accounting,” Buchanan said. Iraq declared that between 1984 and 1990, it produced 795 tons of sarin-type agents. About 732 tons was put in bombs, rockets and missile warheads. Iraq further declared that about 650 tons was consumed during the period 1985 to 1988, which included the Iran-Iraq war, and 35 tons was destroyed through aerial bombardment during the Gulf War in 1991. Iraq destroyed 127 tons of sarin-type agents under U.N. supervision, including 76 tons in bulk and 51 tons from munitions. |
Didn't read the whole thing, but I got the general idea.
The thing is, We say we went after Saddam because he had stockpiles of WMD's. Military seemed only to find a Weapon(uno) of Mass Destruction. This could lead to more weapons, but I doubt it. Bush sent us to war for zee oil. -oddguy |
Big woop. I thought they gave up the search.
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Where there is one there is many and its only a matter of time until we discover the rest. There are so many secret tunnels underneath the capital Its not even funny.
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EDIT: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040518/D82KLO180.html |
Relax Majic this thread is not going to turn out to be like "The American Beheaded in Iraq Thread". There is not going to be any arguement of any kind here just strictly opinion on the story I found on MSN. The story is all over the news mann so who knows we may actually find more and if we do then what? What will the rest of the world say if for say we did find more? I mean I find it odd that there would only be one weapon the likelyhood of more being hidden is pretty damm good.
Paramiteabe... :fuzblink: |
No. I know this isn't going to turn into another bashing thread. I just think the oil argument is just total bullhocky:p And I'd say the potential for there to me more exists, but is relatively slim.
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Yeah I think the proper title for my thread should be "A Weapon of Mass Destruction found" instead of "weapons" But isn't it odd how we all of a sudden find this? Whats next ya know? Forgive me though I am very optomistic thats just my nature.
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Yes. Quite odd. Close enough to upcoming elections. First Saddam, covering up the Iraqi abuse with news of an American being beheaded, now a chemical weapon. Seems pretty ovious that the Bush administration is plotting this out perfectly for November 2nd. Or whenever.
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It has been proven time and time again that Saddam did not have any ability to launch anything at anyone. If anything, Saddam was probably trying to make weapons because he knew that America were going to try and invade Iraq - to be honest I don't blaim him. |
Bah. Upon seeing the title of this thread I immediately thought three things:
1) America planted the weapon themselves 2) It really was a weapon from Iraq or 3) Some idiot planted it there to spite me ;) Alcar... |
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The attack on Iraq was basically a witch hunt to please the Sherman public PA... it did its job! You seem very pleased about it PA! However, if Bush didn't prove that there was a reason for his attack then the rest of the world... you know those other smaller places with thinner people!... would string him up... metaphorically! Its just all too AAAAAAARGH! IMHO war is wrong end of... (but the reasons for war can make it slightly more acceptable contrast WW2 with Bush's recent antics!) |
The rest of the world against America is a seriously massive force. The immense weight the rest of the UN is able to throw back at America is seriously underrated and grossly underestimated by Bush.
If it is discovered that the war in Iraq was something far more sinister than it appears, I fear that a world war against the US could start up - if that did happen then America would be doomed to become a nation of ashes, since it doesn't come even close to being able to match the forces of Earth. Israel alone are a seriously MASSIVE threat to the US, add to that the, bluntly put, frightening power of the French airforce and FFL. Plus the immense Japanese army, quite frankly worrying power of the ageing Russian navy, and you have one world army of an apocalyptic power. The US is most definately NOT anywhere near above UN durisdiction, in fact it's very much at the mercy of a world that has a gun pointed to its head. The US may not be seeking a permission slip to defend its nation, but it's currently doing no defending. In fact, quite the opposite. |
I like how you missed out any British forces... undoubtedly if this was to take place Britian would be allied with America!!!
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I highly doubt it will come down to the world going up against us as much industrialised as we are today. Look what happen when the Japs attacked Pearl Harbor we came in after them and gave them a taste of their own medicine after they attacked us. We introduced to the Japs the Atomic Bomb we are so powerful it takes just one man to press a single red button to launch all out Nuclear devastation on an enemy country. Infact we are already developing un man defensive capabilties like air craft with no pilots that can fly in and destroy an enemy in seconds. It keeps the soldiers out of harms way.
Quite frankly if you look back into history the US was built on foundation of freedom and where the hatred that the rest of the world has towards us came from is something I dunno. In the end though Freedom will always preveil over all and I know that ultamately we as the world are in reality wrong. |
Balls!
A) The term "Jap(s)" is highly offensive PA! B) The Sherman's tardy appearance in WW2 was totally typical of the American attitude "If its not involvong us who gives a f**k and when it is... both feet!" Or rather to devestating atomic bombs.. the true effects of which are still not yetknown C) No matter whether your aircraft are manned or not... your not known for your proficiency at friendly fire for nothing! D) "Freedom?" What you call freedom is actually selfishness... Freedom to carry a side arm... selfishly empower idiots to carry weapons to blazes with the consequences! (The Columbine incident, the Flint kindergarten shooting!) Freedom to wade into a country with little provocation and declare war... killing hundreds maiming thousands (Your death toll... less than 100!) Freedom to inflict mental and physical torture on POWs of an injust war. Freedom to mentally torture teenagers and leave them without any idea of sexual normality (alacy) or safe sex! (The Siler Ring thing and other such s**t endorsed by Bush... The list can go on.... |
Actually PA, the second America launches any kind of missile, hundreds of countries launch missiles against it, to intercept it mid air.
America likes to think it has the power to decide the fate of the rest of the world with the flip of a switch, but really, it doesnt. The japanese attacking pearl harbour is not a fair example of what would happen if the whole world went against the US. The USA would be fending off Russian nukes, English nukes, French nukes, German Nukes, Japanese Nukes, Korean Nukes, Israeli Nukes, French airforce, Japanese navy, German Airforce, Russian Airforce, Russian Navy, German forces, French Forces, Japanese Forces, British Forces, Israeli Tanks, French Foreign Legion, SAS, British tanks, and German Special forces. That is one HELL of a lot to contend with. The only hope in hell that the USA would have with defending itself, is in it's airforce and navy. The British, Russian and Japanese navy combined as a single force would easily render the US navy ineffective, the French airforce alone taking very considerable bites out of the US airforce and navy forces, and with british and german airforces with them, they will cause even greater devastation. The Israeli and British tanks would together outsize the US tank army by up to four times, and when combined with other countries would make a massive landing force, easily capable of occupying the majority of America within a year. The French army is the most well equipped army in the world, that alongside the German army with all its high tech weaponry, allied with the fearless Israeli forces would make conflict go heavily in their favour. |
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But September 11th was a terrible thing but then so was the Madrid rail bomb... tell me have Spain declared war on a totally different despot in retaliation? |
I don't think it matters either way. Sarin isn't like a friggin' pop tart, its got a very definate shelf life. You can NOT have Gulf War era gasses and expect them to work correctly. Even if they did mix the potency would have been pathetic since it is well past expired and not used in an enclosed space. This is being trumped up as "proof" by warmongers and chickenhawks who realize nobody intelligent buys their bullshit WMD stories. This was one ghetto ordinance folks, and it didn't even cause the death of anyone. I think its kind of disgusting that Israel can bulldoze houses and kill hundreds of innocents in bomb strikes and that the U.S. can so lie to the rest of the world and cause the deaths of thousands and they get a free pass. Meanwhile, one ****ing worthless bomb goes off and its in the news for days.
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A biological weapon, near a U.S. Military Convoy? Never.
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"Oh time for the Badger parade!" :D |
Time for me to merge in again.
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PA, Im realy starting to dislike the way you defend your so called country with. America thinks they have the right to police the world and I have to agree with Death. If there would be a counter attack from Iraq or an allie in the next few months, I would have the complete understanding for it. :
The man who has been asigned by America to lead Iraq was never found a problem, but 9/11 happands and America suddenly wants to be the only nation on earth having WOMD... for what? Well il let you do the thinking. And if America would be attacked for a second time... I just hope it will be a place where it will not do to much dammage, like the White House. |
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Havoc, thankyou for taking the time to read my post and undestand my view, you seem to be the first who's done that in a while aswell. :D |
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Oh, and I am almost certain that a war against America is coming. Invasion of the US will be terrible. -oddguy |
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Lets just pray that it doesn't. World vs USA is a battle the USA cannot win. Terrorism vs USA yes, that can be done, but the rest of the world? No. Which is why I hope it never happens, and it's why I hope America treats the rest of the world with more respect. |
America claims they try to prevent WW3... I believe theire only starting it...
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If they do find WMD i will be pleased, because it means there is more of a chance of Labour getting in this election.
I don't really get our country - everythings on the up since the Conservatives f*cked off, but nooooo, just because we invade a shitty little country on the hopes of stopping a dictator Labour's bad. The Conservatives make it worse aswell by bringing it up constantly, it's like "Okay, but what actual shittyness has Labour done to OUR country...oh yes, none. And if there is, it's at least better than the shittyness you did to it, Mr Michael-Opportunistic-Prick-Howard."... |
Hopefully a new election will bring in a new President. And hopefully this new president will not be stupid enough to continue the course Bush plotted out. Anything else is conjecture. Can Kerry be this president? He'd better be.
The Oil argument: This is only heresay, and as I no longer have steady internet access, I don't really have time to check, but I've heard that the world's projected oil reserves are expected to be depleted by 2040. I don't know what that might all effect, but if it's anywhere close to the cutoff date (even a few decades early) it's still heinous for our energy use in the future. Besides, there's a possibility that removing all the oil from the land could seriously disrupt the planetary ecosystem. I feel that's unlikely, but possible. As far as I can tell, all the negative assessments of the US's past military history are accurate. There are two things that bother me, though. 1: would Israel really attack the US. I mean, it's pretty much an illegal country WE created because we felt that jewish people deserved some compensation. Obviously, they don't want to side with the bad guys (US) but could they truly attack one of their few staunch defenders? I'm not well versed in that political arena, so I don't have any more to offer on it. 2: PA, what can you possibly mean by optimistic? You're hoping for there to be WMD. Is this so Bush can be right? Would finding them somehow justify the unprovoked assault on Iraq and the murdering of its' citizens? The only effect it would have at this point is the Bush administration gaining enough political power to actually start the war they're so intent on. |
Labour hasn't done anything for England. They've just fiddled with it, and poked it like tastey cake.
Blair was promising all sorts of crap that he ended up not delivering. The NHS is on a 72 billion pound a year budget, and it still sucks. That by the way, is enough money to give every person on earth £12. The most they've ever done is erect a giant circus tent and circus wheel in london - the circus tent, reminiscant of an upturned wok, did nothing but create dents in pockets, and the london eye is now merely a tourist attraction. How fantastic. |
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For being the "best country in the world," America sure is a scary place to live in. With the threat of... oh gee... I don't know... one of dozens of countries poised to attack us and the general murmur of Bush reinstating the draft, I can't say that I'm too happy to turn on the news every morning.
Damn, so close to the voting age. I really feel like I could make a difference the election (well, as much of a difference as a single citizen can make by voting). Normally, I'm sure I would go for some pinko liberal douche party, but this year I would vote for Kerry on principle alone. Sure, he may not be the best presidential candidate America has ever seen, but he certainly is the lesser of the two evils. Damn you, Nader. Don't fuck this up. Plus I'm a pussy. I don't wanna get drafted. :D Bah, there's always Canada. Come to think of it, I really wouldn't mind living in Canada. Of course, the US has had a history doing little things like barring the borders when a draft is about to begin. Cunning bastards! |
Vote for Kerry. This time if you vote Green you might as well vote for for more wars(oops, years) of FASCIST MAN-APE IN TRAINING(oops, Bush).
You know, a lot of people are trashing the way people stick up for America but you have to understand that this is a visceral, conditioned thing. People in the U.S. have essentially been brainwashed into worship of state. The government grows each year and more and more rights are taken. Who cares if the constitution gets hijacked and perverted as long as terrorists get nabbed and nobody has to see a titty without express written consent. Oh, pledge allegiance to a meaningless symbol with a saying that was humanistic but then corrupted to save us from the Godless Reds? Don't mind if I do! In fact, please insert this mindless flag worship every time more than 30 people congregate. |
'Labour hasn't done anything for England. They've just fiddled with it, and poked it like tastey cake.'
1. Lowered inflation rates for 30 years 2. Lowered interest rates for 35 years 3. Introduced a National Minimum Wage 4. Record police numbers in England and Wales 5. Cut crime by 25 per cent overall Not only that but we've had the lowest unemployment since '75. There are more by the by, i just can't be bothered to list them all. But yeh, i'd say the above was good enough to keep Labour in, and knowing Michael Howard [especially with his track record] he'd most likely f*ck it up. And even if he isn't going to, i'd still rather not take a chance. |
Jesus. Paranoia, heresay, rumors, suspicions, acting rebellious. The war in the Middle East is unjustified. It's been said enough. I just don't get it; do people want to hate America? The absurd sentiment here is just... I can't quite think of a word to describe it. Not stupid, but just a bit odd. There's just some sort of psychological urge provoking people into a fad, or going against the power. I haven't a clue. It's just odd.
Too many things have been listed to bother responding against, or at least that I have time for right now. But outside of ****ing up the whole ME foriegn affairs, america isn't a bad place. Yet... you hate America? When saying you hate America, or saying you believe America thinks it can control the world, or you think america are a bunch of greedy bastards brainwashing their people, are talking about all 250 million of us, or just assumptions about the national government? Quite honestly, this offends me. My friends and Ihave done nothing wrong to others. I have a responsible, law-abiding family. Yet the word "America" includes everybody; me, Oddguy, Searex, Mac, Morgo, big Dave, and... PA. Sort of. Not sure if that guy's mindset fits in anywhere. But have we done anything wrong? Have we gone around parading ourselves as world protectors? Are the editorials in the newspaper full of arrogant bastards saying we're right? Do the TV shows we watch every night go about telling us we're mighty? The term "America" is just being thrown around like a toy, something to put lal the blame on. But all you're really talking about is the current governments actions regarding the War on Terrorism and Iraq. Has anybody actually bothered to stop and think about that? The Bush administration hasn't even done all that bad outside of foreign affairs. Our inflation is relatively low. Our unemployment rate is still a touch high, but it's no worse than it was years ago. Our economy is in dandy shape, our education ystem is still good. There are some specifics to be hammered out, but our standard of living is still one of the highest there is. THE POINT IS: Do you all truly judge all of your answers on America based on slandering news, popular social opinion, and the war in Iraq? Or do you actually bother to look past the ideas that get thrown around regarding our government and take a look at the country? I dare somebody. Speak up and say that I am, or Mac is, or Oddguy, our parents, our teachers, the people that help us at Wal Mart. Say that we're a flawed, greedy people that is plotting against the world. It's ridiculous. Trash foreign actions all you want. I'll agree with you as long as there's fact to back it up, and isn't some hole-filled speculation attempt. But where is the justification, where the hell is the justification, in echoing trash-talk about an entire country that clearly is a good place to live? |
Majic, I'm sorry, but I've been saying that America is corrupt as well. And when I say that, I don't mean everyone living in this country is corrupt. I mean the way things are run with our Government.
-oddguy |