Disgusting treatment of POWs
 

Can you believe what members of the military have done to prisoners? Force sodomization, sleep deprevation, and all sorts of other humiliating tortures. Another case is pending before the U.N. on the torture and killing of thousands of Afghani POWs. This is sick! I'm torn between respecting the military for the services they render and despising it because it seems that the most twisted dregs of humanity dwell in it.

Uck, I just heard about them forcing the prisoners to get naked and lay on each other and other humiliating things while they took pictures...it's disgusting. I don't know how those damn soldiers can live with themselves.

I am really disgusted with what went on. And apparently it is said that there are more pictures and even videos of Iraqi children being violated by our troops. And, I hear it just isn't one prison where these have taken place. If so, that would suggest that this isn't an isolated incident and that maybe our troops were trained to do such evil interagation tactics. This makes me sick to my stomach.

Even more so that President Bush is acting like this is no big deal. If I were him, I would've squeezed out some tears.

-oddguy

Disgusting and humiliating things always happen in war but little is ever done.

Tis very true. I've been watching these pictures on the news each night, it's absolutely horrible. These soldiers have sick sadistic looks on their faces. I know war does terrible things to the mind..but I just think of it in the reverse, how would I feel if it was OUR soldiers being treated like that????? There is no excuse.

War is part of our nature to deny it is to deny ourselves but this kind of thing is just a lust to have power over others and demonstrate it.
Its discusting.

Military people aren't "trained" to do things like this. The U.S. may not be the best, but we're not "low". There's a huge number of people in our military;a few make some poor choices. There's people who make poor choices everywhere, whether at school, at home, in a position of power, etc... Deal with it and move on.

There is a difference between bad choices and idiotic, disturbing ones using that logic you seem to appear you respect the military strongly as do most people, I do but when somebody does something like that its not a poor choice.

To be honest i couldn't care less what they're doing over there, although i do have a problem with them hurting children but until see evidence i won't take it as gospel.

So what if they're humiliating them? Big deal. If it were our troops being held captive, chances are they'd suffer a Hell of a lot worse. So they take photo's and ridicule them? Make them lay on each other naked [which was quite an amusing photo, especially with the woman smiling] like it's any big deal? I don't really understand what the massive outcry is about. I can understand that they're supposed to be claiming that they're helping Iraq but then doing something Saddam would do. Yeh, ok that's kinda bad, but still.

And if they're prisoners, so what? If they haven't been charged, yeh, i understand the outcry 'cos they're potentially innocent, but if they're not. Who really cares? If they're terrorists...who cares what happens to them? Really? I don't.

On the interrogation front, i believe that the UK and USA should use any means necessary [providing they don't "plant" locations/words into the prisoners mouths/minds] to get the info they need. The biggest problem in the world now is that the Human Rights people get on your back as soon as you push somebody, it's ridiculous the way they behave. Some people need to be beaten/humiliated to realise that they're c*nts [Paedophiles for instance, i would happily set a Paedophiles feet on fire and watch as he slowly burnt] but noooo...we can't do this. We might hurt their feelings. Ugh.

I'm with Jacob, covicted ass-wranglers such as Iraqi terrorists and prisoners deserve what they got, and worse. Humiliation is what they gave, we're returning the favor, and if there gonna bow there heads and cry like little bitches over a few "dirty" pictures of themselves then they should get worse. I see worse crap on the internet and they're spreading this all over the news like butter! It's like "We just received some photos of our mortal enemies crying over their trouser-less condition and now we are gonna show them on every news station and complain". Fuck the guilty! Fuck them with a twirling lawnmower!

Just because we have prisoners doesn't mean we can turn into animals and humiliate them. By God, they're still human for crying out loud!

-oddguy

Sorry, but I can't call people who destroy our monumental buildings, steal innocent lives, assassinate hundreds of soldiers with loving families, and laugh in our faces about it "human".

'they're still human for crying out loud!'

Yeh, and they have a right to complain. Much like we have a right to ignore their complains. And laugh harder.

I don't care if you're the most evil man in the world...I'm not going to torture or humiliate you. It's just so wrong. I could never do that to another human being.

-oddguy

Your Christian is showing.

Pfft, you obviously don't know the torture some people have to go through. The scope of once-happy people that have lost their families and friends, having their sons, daughters, cousins, nieses, nephews brutally slaughtered at the hands of those who aren't forced to do so, but like to. Having their hearts plunged into the black pools of misery leading to depression and suicide. Whole families that will mourn until the day they die aswell (possibly at their own hand!). As a religious citizen you believe in heaven and hell I take it, don't you belive these mad, evil, people need to suffer in this life as well as the next? If you lost your dad, or even your mother at the hands of a terrorist and see his/her lifeless body pumped with lead lying on a filthy road, would you not vow a fantastic revenge. The criminals depicted in those photos are the ones out there killing our family and friends, and you're weeping over a few snapshots of them!? Do you actually feel sorry for them!?

Non-Christians are upset about this as well. And just remember that I didn't bring this religion thing up. I'm making a religious statement based on my own beliefs. I'm not trying to 'convert' anyone. Just making this clear.


It's not my place to make judgement on them. That's for God to take care of.


I'm just sick to see that our troops are doing exactly what we arrested Saddam for...TORTURE. Sure, those troops aren't as bad as Saddam, but I can't believe they even lowered themselves to a level in which they would think torture on anyone is justified.

-oddguy

'I'm just sick to see that our troops are doing exactly what we arrested Saddam for...TORTURE.'

I think that's why people are so wound up about it.

Butm like i said, i don't see the big deal about it. They haven't even done anything that bad to them, compared to what they could've done. Not only that, but you have some twats saying that the British troops are doing it aswell...thankfully, the pictures were faked. But still, i don't think the American troops have done anything too bad. Well, nothing bad at all really.

And on the point that you made about God casting judgement, would God send somebody to Hell if they believed they were doing his work and were wrongly led to believe they were doing good? No. He'd have pity on them.

On an Agnostic point, what if there is no God and you pinning your hopes on this punishment they'll get in the Afterlife will never come? And they'll get away without feeling any of the pain/degradation that they inflicted on others.

If you compare what American troops did, to what Saddam did...it's not that bad. Saddam was a dictator. Saddam had people burned up in acid and even worse stuff. However, if you compare what American troops did to what the whole goal of this war is, you'll find we want Iraqi's to trust us. Torture does not promote trust, and this situation looks like it's going to make more enemies for America. That isn't good. I know for a fact that this situation is going to cause a shockwave that'll end up in America being attacked by enemy countries.

-oddguy

'"Vengance is mine, sayith the Lord."'

You miss my point. Would he really send someone to eternal damnation if they were doing what they did [no matter how bad] for him, because they were led to believe it was the right way to do things?

I'm going to leave this up to you two to talk about. I have obviously hit a sour key here and I don't want to cause any hatred or flaming amongst friends, so I'm going to slowly back out of this letting any who were offended know that I am sorry.

I'm pretty pissed. We've got a god rap for being a "noble", if you will, military, and a few bastards turn us evil in a snap. Although I think I'm more pissed at Bush for being a complete ignurant dickhead on the matter.

Thats just my 2 cents.

Don't worry SS. I'm not mad at you whatsoever. :)

I wouldn't blame Bush, at all. He may be an idiot, but he can't watch over the actions of every solider, every camp, every prison, etc... If anybody is going to take the rap for this outside of the actual offenders, it'd be the person(s) responsible for the upkeep of the prison and possibly even those that they report to.

Why is everyone acting surprised? Honestly, you could have seen this happening a mile off. It happened in Vietnam, and it has probably happened in every other war they've managed to get into.

It is sick though. Especially because Islamic law (as in religious law) dictates that no man should be seen naked in the presence of another man. That's effectively turning them impure in the eyes of their God.

Alcar...

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Even if the people deserved what happened to them, it's still idiotic what those soldiers did, I mean America is in enough hot water as it is, our integrity is being questioned more and more. So what happens, while we still had a chance to clean up and get done with what we started, the world sees a bunch of our soldiers acting like sadistic teenagers. Way to go.

i think they should imprison the soldiers who did this and make an example of them

or

shoot them and make an example of them that way

I completely agree...regardless of how few soldiers it was, they're still setting off a negative image of our country, in which we need all the help we can get to turn that image back around. They're just making it worse.

I don't see how anyone can justify the treatment of these POWs. It is revolting. Iraqi women and children have been sexually violated and dozens of people have died as a result of their treatment during their imprisonment. If any other country was acting like this to American citizens America would be bombing the shit out of them right now. Also, Jacob, the treatment of the people that were captured by Iraqis was downright sedate compared to the sick shit that has been happening to POWs at the hands of U.S. soldiers.
Nothing is being done to the people who have done these revolting things, 12 out of 13 of the malefactors are getting nothing but pussy reprimands. They should be given dishonorable discharges and tried criminally.

I completely agree with Statikk.

Too many crimes against humanity go unpunished. Fair enough Americans are obviously full of hate because of September 11th but not every Iraqis is a terrorist the entire country didn’t fly those plains. Come on if you remember allot hated Sadam but they want their own freedom.

Except that it's the American public (most of them) who are outraged by these pictures.

"Bow there heads and cry like little bitches..." You've got to be joking, right? Let's say you're in America and suspected of crimes. You deserve civil treatment, a lawyer, and the full benefit of American law. Now lets say that you're suspected of being a terrorist. All of a sudden you are not human. You are a "crying little bitch". You'll be tortured with sleep and sensory deprevation, forced sexual contact with others, beatings, and perhaps rape and other sexual abuse. And who is doing this to you? Saddam Hussein? Nope, it is being done by the people who are supposed to be bringing freedom and civil rights to your ravished nation. How could you, in their situation, not be outraged? The real kicker is that Bush isn't apologizing, isn't giving stiff punsihments or court martials, and Donald Rumsfeld, the man who heard of these problems from the U.N. and others sources but did nothing, in fact by turning a blind eye to the problem condoned it, is NOT BEING PUNISHED! In fact, he's getting acolades from Bush, who seems to think that a lying, heartless politico who started a war on false pretenses and didn't stop abuse of prisoners is "really great."

'Iraqi women and children have been sexually violated'

Where did you get that from?! I haven't heard about that...

'Also, Jacob, the treatment of the people that were captured by Iraqis was downright sedate compared to the sick shit that has been happening to POWs at the hands of U.S. soldiers.'

Oh yes, i forgot you're the equivalent to a God and knew everything that happened about everything. Do excuse me for being so mortal.

If anybody who needs to apologise is those solders who commited those crimes. None of you understand that this is a war and war is not pretty you are going to see this type of stuff. It amazes me on how you guys see this as being something new. As far as I am concern this is a palitical move on the left.

I don't think it has much to do with politics. It's out of the politicians' hands, they need someone "bigger" to solve this.

Oh, and if you didn't notice I corrected your gramatical and spelling errors in the quote, everything I changed is in bold...

Once again, we Americans prove that people born on the North American Continent AREN'T chosen by god, as our politicians so often claim. But leaving politics out of it, I think the worst part of this is that the soldiers are going out of their way to make the Iraqis feel inhuman. Not that Humanity's that great in the first place, but seriously. At this point all one can do is watch the news roll in and go "Oh, right. I'd forgotten for a minute that Americans ARE the terrorists. Because it was never obvious before this." I'm not sure it comes over that well digitally, but that's my attempt at sarcasm.

This war was never about liberation, so I'm sure the soldiers are thinking "Who cares if we rape a few Iraqis? They bombed us, they deserve it." Oops, my mistake. Iraq never did bomb us. This war was pre-emptive. And pre-emptive is another word for unjustified.

As for those who suggest we shouldn't be shocked or disgusted because we've seen it all before, you might want to rethink you're concept of humanity. Just because this was easily spotted "a mile off" doesn't mean that that excuses the vile nature of it.
Once again, I agree with Stattik's position.

The big problem with these photos is that countries in the middle east as well as all over the world now have even more reason to hate the U.S.. What Idiot had the camera? Were they trying to get caught? It doesn't take a moron to know that was wrong, and they should pay the consequences. It is not known that all those men were guilty, but even if they were, it shouldn't have taken place, and the U.S. shouldn't be sinking to the levels of terrorists. Those people ruined things for the rest of the our military, and put them in more danger.

Let me just clear some things up with some solid facts. I have some quotes from investigative reporter Seymour Hersh, who has written a major article about the Iraq torture situation in this week's issue of "The New Yorker" magazine.

"...this was not a prison full of hardened, you know, soldiers caught in war. These are full of civilians...

...60 percent of the people in the prison had nothing to do with, no bad feelings toward America whatsoever. They simply were caught in a random roadside check or they were snatched off the street. They should have been processed under the Geneva Convention...

...they should have been processed. We should have gotten rid of the good guys from the bad guys. There was no control, no paperwork."

Okay, so some of you saying that you feel no remorse for these people because they were terrorists have to understand that most of these people were civilians. Doesn't that just disgust you?

You should be ashamed of yourself, Jacob.

Hersh: "First of all, it's going to get much worse. This kind of stuff was much more widespread. I can tell you just from the phone calls I've had in the last 24 hours, even more, there are other photos out there. There are many more photos even inside that unit. There are videotapes of stuff that you wouldn't want to mention on national television that was done. There was a lot of problems.

There was a special women's section. There were young boys in there. There were things done to young boys that were videotaped. It's much worse."

Here's your proof, Jacob.

-oddguy

the A-rabs did it to our guys they captured, hell, i knew someone from the first gulf war who was captured and interrogated for 4 months by A-rabs, he died, but didnt give out any info at all. I feel sorry for him.

The way those soldiers treated the POW's was wrong. But it does not mean that those POWs are innocient for their war crimes.

They did commit crimes and they are recieveing punishment. Now what the soldiers did was as low as what Saddam did. Now those soldiers are being court marsheld and sent to prison for their crimes. But those abused Iraqi POW's are going to stay in prison because they are terrorist.

So let me get this streight you want those POW's free so they can attack us?

This war is a defensive war and we are defending our homeland in the middle east. Do you want war to wage here in the states? Because I feel thats whats going to happen not only with the middle east but with our selves. Another civil war.

*sigh* It seems Oddworld hasn't blurred the lines between good and evil enough. We still have arrogant, over-opinionated morons, even on the forums dedicated to their games.

If members haven't learnt anything from the ethics of Oddworld, it is indeed a shame. But a tribute to those that have learnt from them.

Alcar...