You speak as if people have no innate moral standing. That they're just blank slates that will ultimately murder and steal if they aren't told not to. People are stupid, but they aren't that stupid. No one would reach a position high enough in our leadership caste to promote and control destructive behaviors. Oh, wait... that happens all the time, and that particular person is almost always highly religious.

Why don't we list a few things that religious zealots have done in the name of their "morality"...

The Crusades
The Spanish Inquisition
Thirty Years War
Reconquista
9/11
700 Club


Don't follow any archaic religion to the letter without adjusting it to adhere to modern standards and your own fucking common sense. If you think homosexuals are evil sinners, then you're the one who needs a morality overhaul.

We do have instinctive attitudes to altruism and morality that enable and strengthen social interactions. We can observe these even in babies by experimentation, though they can be overwritten by environmental pressures.

People without such instincts are known as "sociopaths".

And those are the baddies!

In other words, sociopaths can benefit from religious fear, but the rest of us are perfectly fine without it.

no and if muslims do that, they are not even muslims, islam is about peace and we are ordered to respect other religions, it's a rule if broken, then one's no longer muslim.

Lord Stanley: the way you seem to care about morals proves that some book telling you not to murder isn't the only reason you don't do it. Religion isn't a requirement for morals, moral absolutism isn't a requirement for morals. Morals are based on desires, and people EVOLVED to be a social species, so don't assume all atheists to be sadists.

Woah, now hold the phone. I mean,the crusades was one thing, at least the Christians were being direct in their intent but the 700 Club? This should be referred to as 'that which shall not be named' because of the insidious and subliminal ways in which it affects good (but weak minded) people with nothing to do but stay trapped at home during the daytime with this beast.

Poor people suddenly find the 700 mark seared somewhere into their skin after calling in to make a pledge.

I know. I crossed the line with that one... but a point had to be made!

Which fits nicely together with this;

I'm sure the Taliban is about peace but I'm going to stop there.

Islam is also strict in how it dictates how the world should be viewed and also in how it will allow you to view fellow man.

And let's all make sure not to align Muslim with Muslim Extremists. Big mistake.

Could be a lot worse, pal.

I wasn't going to make that mistake. Hence I stopped.

However alot of the world veiw Islam negatively because of such extremest.

I had a muslim friend from pakistan. He was really nice, and we had intelligent conversations. He didn't seem like he wanted to strip away my freedom, in fact he was really respectful.
I liked him.

Do I hear wedding bells? :lick:

Heehee... Mebbe =) Wait no... I think he mentioned that muslims don't have butt-secks...

Oh, yeah?

Why, were you planning on pegging him?

That was boring.

Yeah. Just trying to keep my reputation as a bad person alive.

Seriously, you're not a bad person =) Don't say things like that.
Things will be fine.

There should be a yearly 'OANST day' where he has to be really nice and helpful for a whole day.

Disregard that, it would be creepy.

Go fix your makeup. Jesus likes his girls pretty.

Does he like his girls with penis?

http://media.myspacepimper.com/conte...funny_1117.jpg

I do.

Then, it is agreed!

What is agreed? McDLT?

Ah, the ol' True Christian™ schtick. Carries no weight whatsoever.

Intercourse.

And I saw the whole McDLT thing in the Names thread, it's NOT going to stick so pack it in. :P

You just don't like the McDLT because it's different.

If you had it your way, ALL hamburger patties and lettuce would be kept segregated.

Ugh @ these threads

It's just athiests v christian religiocentricism

Regardless of culture God is a metaphor yo end of

Okay. So you fall on the atheist side.

Leto is too cool for either side. He's an eletoist.

I am sitting on the fence and pissing on both sides!

Ass AND vagina? :D

You guys all fail at defending atheism. Innate morality isn't to do with your own or anyone else's happiness; it's about not causing harm to others. To put it another way, the fundamental tenant of atheistic ethics is "Do unto others as you would have done unto you".

I don't steal from anyone because that would hurt them and I don't like harming others. I don't murder, rape or pillage because I wouldn't want that done to myself.

I don't know what article you read, but the one I posts had nothing to do with that. He didn't talk about sinful pleasures at all. The closest mention I can see to anything that could possibly interpret as being sinful is the one mention of 'sex', and seeing as he's happily married I don't see how that can be sinful.

He's ultimately saying that religious people do 'good' only because their religion tells them to, whilst atheists do 'good' because they've considered the options, debated ethics and decided on the right thing to do. This means that they have to engage fully with the world and can never blame anyone but themselves for their own failings.

Actually I think that explaining it with happiness is a good thing. If people are happy, society functions better IMO.

I mean... I think morality is about not standing in others way, as long as they aren't harming anyone. Anyone who harms anyone must be stopped because that causes pain and tumult around them... or something.... blah.

No Nate you don't that stuff because you'll get caught by the police forces, if say, there was no police due to some cataclysmic event dunno, err, radiation blast killed most of the population, nothing would stop you from fucking every lass you saw and fighting with your locals, read Lord of the Flies

In arguments or debates it's generally considered a good show to actually present evidence or otherwise back up your argument.

And fictional stories don't help your case one bit.

Shut up, he has the conch.

You can't really say what an atheist’s morals are because there are no official morals of atheism. That's kind of the point. I'm sure there are many atheist murderers; they obviously didn't follow said morals.

Anyway I don't quite agree with your morals. Say I saw an extremely attractive person walking down the street. I can't really justify raping her (not that I ever would) on the basis that I wouldn't mind if she fucked me.

I much prefer the "the Wiccan Rede"(please don't, OANST) which states; "An it harm none, do what thou wilt.", the catch is harming none includes yourself, with which I disagree. People should be able to do whatever the fuck they want with themselves for all I care; it's their life, their choice.

You do know how bullshit that comparison is right?