I don't see why God couldn't be some kind of Monkey...

Like on Southpark...which was quite amusing albeit blasphemous...but still.

Jacob's post was short! Congadulations! That was the shortest post i'd ever seen from you!

Anyway, I don't think that GOD is a monkey, cause like oddguy said, he made us in HIS image. I personaly don't believe in evolution.

God is an omnipotent being, therefore he has no form. He doesn't need one.

How could He make us in His image if He has no form? I don't think God is some floating mist that lives in a clowd. I think He has form and His mind is omnipotent.

What about Demons? I'm intrigued by how the people who wrote the scriptures and described the Demons actually came about meeting/seeing them.

I'm not completly sure what the deal is with Demons, but I think they exist.

Just out of interest and in referrence to "Gods big plan with Adam and Eve" and all. If Gods big plan was to create more humans then wouldn't it also to be to create Demons? As Adam and Lilith bore offspring who were Shedim...described as Bulls with wings.

Ok first of all a lot of you have this really warped. Gods big plan is not to just create more humans. That sounds so plain and so un God like. Gods big plan for us is something deeper and infantively more special than anything we could possibly imagine here on earth. God gave us the gift of life he created us in his image through his love. And man has turned from that gift but the Lord loves us and saved all of us through the Cross. The true meaning behind Gods big plan is complex so complex that a part of it is seeing him in heven.

Demons are the Fallen angels.

Yeah, demons are fallen angels! I forgot what to call them!

Where did I not make myself clear? I said "If you studied evolution to the depths you've claimed to, you'd understand that a species will only evolve when there is a need to. A species perfectly adapted to their environment will not change." I only said that bacteria are known to be a very mutative group of organisms, mutation of course, being only one component of the proccess of evolution.

I thought we'd agreed on the biological mechanism that drives evolution? At least, you haven't adequately responded to what I've explained so I'd assume we're in agreement. If your teachers are telling you that evolution is not directed by the need to conform to environmental factors, then your teachers are hardly qualified to be teaching it. There are no disagreements on the basics of evolution among biologists. You must be assuming that because of your misunderstanding of what evolution is, the scientific community misunderstands it, too.

You haven't answered my question. If, as suggested in your later post, you agree that taxonomy is vague and unreliable, then where exactly is the line that stops speciation from occuring? You've basically said you agree that animals can adapt, but you refuse to accept that over time a new species can develop. Where is the line that prevents this from happening? It works through the same process and there are no genetic parameters that determine how much a group of organisms can change. What evidence do you have that says adaption, over time, can't lead to a new species? There have been some examples of speciation observed both in the lab and in the wild, which you can read about here. And here is an extract:

"Three species of wildflowers called goatsbeards were introduced to the United States from Europe shortly after the turn of the century. Within a few decades their populations expanded and began to encounter one another in the American West. Whenever mixed populations occurred, the specied interbred (hybridizing) producing sterile hybrid offspring. Suddenly, in the late forties two new species of goatsbeard appeared near Pullman, Washington. Although the new species were similar in appearance to the hybrids, they produced fertile offspring. The evolutionary process had created a separate species that could reproduce but not mate with the goatsbeard plants from which it had evolved."

Yes, I have. My previous post highlighted your misconceptions on evolutionary theory.

You haven't used any scientific evidence showing that evolution is impossible, you've merely said repeatedly that you don't believe in it because you think it's impossible for it to work. No explanations of why, and no science.

Are you sure it wasn't because you realised you were losing the debate?

I'll start with this:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comd..._forelimbs.gif

(A) Ornitholestes, a theropod dinosaur
(B) Archaeopteryx
(C) Sinornis, an archaic bird from the lower Cretaceous
(D) the wing of a modern chicken

What does this kind of continuity suggest if not the chronological progression of intermediate forms? Why do fossils show that chickens didn't exist in the time of Ornitholests, Archaeopteryx, or Sinornis? The fossil records show a progression of change. As for the human footprints alongside dino prints: Click.

They are in the same genus. Meaning, they both evolved from a similar animal, so naturally there DNA is similar. Therfore they could be artifiucially bred. The Liger probably has some mutations, witch may more may not be visible. If a lion and a tiger mated, hypathettically speaking in the wild, and had a cub, it probably wouldn't last out there. But,lets say they keep having kids. After a while, perhaps one gets an immunity to some disease that they kept dying from. Thats adaptation right there. If these animals lived on for quite some time, they would eventually evolve into a new species.

When did they start making Ligers? Or is this hypathetical?:fuzconf:

Ok. So, in that case, why is it a sin for Homosexuality to be abound? If Gods plan wasn't to create more humans, then why is he saying Homosexuals are sinners and go against his will?

No, Angels who turned away from Gods light are the Fallen Angels. There are other Demons that have no affiliation with God and reside in Hell and other otherworldly planes of existance.

But PA, why did God create the Shedim?

You also never answered my question in the extinction thread.

Oh and OANST were you capable of fuelling your drug-addiction? As in, were you working or did you have enough money to purchase them?

Jacob, who is Shedim?:fuzconf:

The Shedim are Demons who are said to be like Bulls with wings. There origins are random, yet some texts claim they are the offspring of Lilith and Adam when Lilith slept with Adam.

Ok, who is Lilith? :fuzconf:

Lilith, in Jewish tradition, was created with Adam from the dust of the Earth and became his first wife. She was stubborn, though, & refused to be subservient to her husband. Instead of becoming Adam's servant, she left him & was turned out of Paradise. However, before God created Eve, He sent 3 angels to try to convince Lilith to return to Adam. She refused, & God cursed her by sentencing 100 of her offspring to die each day. After her expulsion from Paradise, however, she slept once more with Adam, & bore the Shedim, Lilin, & Rauchin.

Ummmmmm..........I'm not Jewish, and I don't think Jacob is either.

I'm not Jewish either, so what's up with this Jacob? I didn't know you were jewish!:D

Ligers are real and usually are part of a circus or are a curiosity at a zoo.

An evolutionist would say that there is no line right? I say that the line depends on the situation. A worm does not carry the genes for feathers. This means that a worm could never become a bird, no matter what. Which evolution would require, even if not directly. No matter what a worm could become, it doesn't carry genetically whatever would make a bird.

I know you are going to say that I don't understand evolution. I KNOW that evolutionists are saying that worms have magically become birds. Worms became early vertebrates, became fish, became early reptiles, eventually became birds. No matter how much the intermediate stages make since, how obvious a slow progression may be, the results are still the same. The worm, is somehow becoming a bird. No matter what path it takes, evolutions believe that it is possible. HOW? I might not have given you any scientific evidence, but neither can an evolutionist. You haven't given any sceintific evidence either. Science does not show that it is possible. Evolution requires faith in the unknown. It cannot be tested.

It could easily suggest that all the creatures were created by the same person (God), who used the same basic guidlines in the skeletal structure. That is what it suggests to me. Like I said, it is all in the interpretation of the facts. You choose to believe that your example is evidence of evolution, but it is not any any more scientifically factual than my arguments.

Similarities between parts of different animals is not PROOF that evolution has occured. I might suggest, but it is not a testable scientific fact. Evolution is NOT science, it is a belief. And since there is no real science to evolution, it is hard to scientifically argue with it, especially since your only response to all my evidence is "You don't understand evolution. You are wrong because I say you are confused."

I'm tired of arguing with you, since I know you aren't really listening to me. You already made it clear you don't think I know what I'm talking about. Why should I continue this discussion?

If anyone really cares to learn more of what I have to say (read: if you agree with me and are willing to listen to evidences of an alternative to evolution) please PM. I really do have a lot of good information, if you are open minded. Hopefully some of you understand that what I am saying is true, even if Sydney thinks I'm just stupid.

OK, I was confused on that one!:fuzconf: But now I'm better!:fuzgrin:

I'm not Jewish, i was explaining to you who Lilith was. Jewish tradition follows the same story of the Bible what with Adam and Eve and such, so, since you believe the Bible is true, that must mean it comes from the same source, which in turn means that Lilith did have intercourse with Adam and did spawn Demons...

But it doesn't say that in the BIBLE, so I don't know about it, it might be true, but i really doubt it!

I shall explain slowly.

You think the Bible is true.
The referrence of Adam and Eve came from the Bible.
The referrence of Lilith and Adam came from some Jewish thing.
Jewish things and your belief state the same story and originate from the same place.
Therefore, since you believe the Bible, you must also believe all other scriptures linked with the Bible which include God allowing Lilith to create Demons.

So why did God create Demons?

Also, i'm finding it annoying that PA didn't answer my amazing, thooperlicious statement.

So, if you believe in Lilith, you must believe in the Bible. I highly doubt you believe the Bible is true, so Christians aren't expected to believe in Lilith either.

I don't understand what your trying to get at Jacob.

Looks like this needs a slightly different perspective. Okay:

You believe in the Bible, you follow it, study it, live by it. The Bible isn't just a book created out of nowhere, it has a start, and origin. It is, in fact, lots of scriptures, all written a long time ago, the most recent being roughly a couple of millennia back. There are scriptures, though, that are not in the Bible, even though they have the same source of the scriptures that made it into the Bible. What Jacob is trying to say is that if you believe in what the Bible says now, even after so much tampering from humans, you must surely believe all the scriptures that have exactly the same source as those in the good book.

Khanz, don't get put off. Traditionally, such debate has always been at the heart of the Oddworld Forums, and with the return of Pinky and the...well, with Grig, it's just been brought up again. This is probably one of the most peaceful such topics I've seen here.

As for scientific evidence and what not, I can see plenty of that in what Sydney had described - mutations and other changes in creatures becoming more successful because of a great chance of breeding. You keep saying science can't support evolution, yet I haven't seen you highlight any plotholes with the theory yet, save your gene one, which I can't possibly comment on because of no knowledge on the subject.

I know... I just got a little annoyed with him constantly saying I was confused. I do know what I'm talking about, and even though I type in an unorganized manner, that doesn't mean I know nothing about evolution.

So you guys want scientific proof huh... okay how's this? For the dino's turning into birds you should read both parts of this article.

http://www.apologeticspress.org/rr/rr2001/r&r0104a.htm

So did I show you guys plenty of potholes now? And that is only one tiny example. I know of a lot more, and hopefully I'll do a better job of presenting them in a more obvious manner.

I don't believe in the Bible fullstop. I'm stating all that for you and Grig because you was asking me what i was getting at even though i was clearly stating what i was actually getting at...

O-M-G!! I'm saying that God created Demons!! And it was Gods plan to have Demons run around no matter how much you say Lucifer is the cause of such diabolicalness!!

And thankyou to Max for explaining in retard terms...

My thoughts on demons...
 

This is one part of the Bible I don't know much about but from what I know...

God created demons, just as he created Satan. Like humans, the spiritual beings God created had their own minds and could make their own decisions. In the Bible, demons usually did not take physical form, but did possess people, causing all sorts of mental illness and physical weakness. I think God created demons to test humans and also to make Jesus and the apostles look good (since they had authority over demons on earth). After the resurection of Jesus, the demons were no longer allowed on the earth.

As for Lilith and the others, I think they are probably made up by normal people, so they aren't real. But you never know. There are many angels with names in the Bible, so I don't see why demons couldn't. I've never heard any demon names mentioned though, with the exception of Satan, but he is the Devil which is very different.

You guys should read Luke 8:26-39. Funny story, that not many people know.