IMO, Achievements take away from the feeling of achievement.

Quick Saves is a great idea, the most logical option is to have it optional when you begin your game. If you can't control yourself, and quick save constantly then that shouldn't be the reason why people who wish for the quicksave function to lose out. As for trophies, It's a given, it would be weird if you guys didn't include trophies these days.

As for details in the game, I'm alittle perplexed to be exact. I thought the Oddworld games had some of the best detail on the Playstation. I wonder if it'll be possible to see Abe's pupils while in the playthrough, or the Scrabs be more accurately sized. I recall the scrabs being about 2 or 3ft taller than a Mudokon, but in Oddysee they definitely were the same height; it would be more than awesome if the Sizes of the creatures of Oddworld would be completely accurate.

It would? Why are they so important?

The same way opening a treasure chest in a Legend of Zelda game is fun. As for important like tantamount to game play then it's not, but I mean it doesn't take away from the game in anyway, it only adds. For many people it's nice feeling to do something rare or spectacular in a game and hear an awarding chime, for many others it's a good feeling to know you saved All 99 Mudokons and other people know it's true. That's just the truth of the human condition. It's fun to be rewarded even if it's meaningless in reality, it's just cool. More importantly why not have trophies in the game? Unless those extra few MB take away from a Scrab having more animations, or Abe not having the purple stripes on his feather visible,all in all why not have it?

There needs to be one single achievement, unlocked by completing a very obscure set of requirements. You need to rescue a specific amount of Mudokons per level, find exactly half of all secret areas, and die less than three times. Then a previously boarded-up door in one of the secret areas opens, and you enter it to get a pointless cutscene.

“Achievement Unlocked: Waste of Time”

I think it would in Oddworld's case.


If I do something spectacular I feel pleased because I've done something spectacular. I don't need a popup to tell me I done good - to know that what I've done was not just meant to be possible but meant to be attempted would, IMO, detract from the feeling.

What the fuck?



In any case, if there are Achievements I hope there aren't any of those stupid ones that you unlock doing things necessary to complete the game.

Of course there will be.

That's cool that you can ignore/accept not having trophies but for all of the potential new Oddworld gamers, trophies will not be a sacrifice to the atmosphere, and core, even outer core of the game at all col. Actually why do you think it takes away from Oddworld?

In my opinion, Oddworld has always been a bit of a niche game, very appealing to a relatively select audience. If you try to make it more mainstream, then a lot of it's appeal is at risk.

It seems to me like having collectables and multiple difficulties would be nothing more than gimmicks to encourage gamers to replay the game once complete. Of course I cannot speak for everyone, but I imagine that the type of person who plays Oddworld values story, atmosphere and character development as much as gameplay- you know, the gamers who don't skip the cutscenes :p

What I'm trying to say is that I do not need any gimmicky incentive to replay Abe's Oddysee. I replay it every so often because I enjoy the story, characters and environments, etc. I do not replay purely to get the last trophy, that last collectable or to 100% the game by completing it on 'hard'. Abe's Oddysee simply does not need these features to get it's fans to play it again!

I would be very disappointed if such an artistic game were reworked to appeal to the short attention spans of the fps generation. Of course trophies/achievements wouldn't detract from the game- I just think that Oddworld has always been about story and shouldn't become just another 'Hey, that Odd game has thirty trophies! I don't care about the story, I just want more trophies' kinda thing ;)

The way I see it, the people who care about the story will play it. The people who are ambivalent about the story will likely play it because the gameplay is fun and rewarding. People who just care about achievements will play it because it has achievements.

I don't think achievements are something that detract from a game if done properly.

Also, I'm fairly certain you can't put games on PSN or XBLM without achievements these days. (feel free to correct me if you find out otherwise)

Aah, luckily my box art doesn't include written-on text :D


Indeed, they must be added, otherwise the game will not be put on the PSN/XBLM


I like collecting Trophies AND getting them all (actually only care for the Platinum), and if possible in the most difficult way (Like beating and getting almost every trophy for God of War, and THEN get the trophy for upgrading the first weapon, directly followed by upgrading them all, directly followed by Platinum), but I am not buying the games specially for it.

Few weeks ago I got a friend request from someone unknown (got alot since I am top player of Dead Nation and DN was given away for free), and I hadn't even added him yet, but immediately after I did, he already had his personal message saying: Erwin Platinum 24/28 (yes, I played 28 thropy games). He was already fan of me before I had added him! Funny that a few hours later he called me cheater, gay, lacking skills and what ever, just because I didn't want to play Co-op Dead Nation with him.
See, another reason why I do not like Co-op! It brings above the worst in people. I have been cursed and shouted out for that same reason several times already.

Oddworld Abe's Oddysee story will not be effected it's a remake. This level of worry for story should be for Squeeks Oddysee, worry for atmosphere should be reserved for Hand of Odd. This is Abe's Oddysee it will be fine.

Oh, well thanks for clearing that up and taking our worries away.

That's a good way to think about it! Looking back, I don't think my last post really got to the point I was trying to make!

I just meant to say that some developers, in a bid to appeal to the majority of gamers, significantly alter the gameplay and features of a game, and in doing so alienate their original fanbase. I think it's a shame when games (and movies for that matter) change for the sake of the people who never really cared about them in the first place.

It wasn't my intention to point at JAW specifically- I know JAW respect the IP and I'm confident the new Oddworld games will be great! I meant to speak far more generally, only using Oddworld as an example of a game I would personally be disappointed if this happened to- not that I ever thought it would :)

In hindsight, trophies and difficulty settings were pretty bad examples of changes considering the point I was trying to make, since, like you said, they do not detract from the game at all!

Don't get me wrong, achievements can detract from the game. A good achievement is one that gets the player thinking in a different way and makes them do things they wouldn't normally do (that are also fun).

Anyone with a interest in game design or psychology knows that for a game to be fun it has to have rules. Achievements are like secondary rules; you don't have to abide by them, but you're rewarded with an achievement if you do.

You've essentially just described the sort of convoluted secret endings that Silent Hill has, which are fairly well received :P

There's nothing wrong with saving ALL 99 Mudokons an making that a trophy. When I think of trophies, I don't imagine one being "Make Abe Jump 20x", when I think trophy I think "Throw a rock at a Slog" or "Make a Scrab fall into a pit" or even "Possess 10 Sligs".

Out of all of those, the only one achievement worthy is making a scrab fall down a pit.

Considering that you have to possess 10 sligs or more over the course of the game, and that certain puzzles were designed for you to throw a rock and piss off a slog to make it easier on yourself,
I'd rather have achievements that you have to discover how to get,
or in some cases, you have to be an expert at the game to even think about trying to get them.

Agreed. I've always hated achievements that you get no matter what during the course of the game, except maybe the story or chapter related ones but even those are a little unnecessary. Achievements that you actually have to work for in addition to completing the game would be much better. Like blowing up a number of chant suppressors (which is not something you'd normally be doing in AO except a few times here and there).

I kinda like the unavoidable, story-based achievements. Not ridiculous amounts of them, and not put in places that aren't notable accomplishments in their own right, but they have their place. If nothing else, it's interesting to see how many players have made it how far through the game.

However, there should always be achievements that are more than that, that the player has to work to earn.

I've never really thought about it before, but I agree with the bit in bold. I do actually check out the acheivements lists on Steam to see other people's progress.

I think I understand this a bit better now!

I never really saw the point of trophies that you get anyway during the course of a game, nor those that are so easy you get them without even trying. I think it was Assassin's Creed Brotherhood that had quite a few of those. Great game by the way- but trophies like 'sprint for 500 meters without stopping' are most likely to be achieved by accident. I know my reaction was nothing more than 'Oh. I got a trophy for that?'

On the other hand, Batman: Arkham Asylum has a far more fun variation since it requires thought- the 'glide for over 100 meters' (in one go, that is) trophy was fun because there is only one place in the game you can glide that far from, and it's up to the player to find it :D

Thinking of Abe's Oddysee, it would be interesting if there were trophies that could only be completed in a specific location, but without the ability to return to previous areas later on, people might not like having to play a large chunk of the game again just for a trophy if they missed it first time round.

Maybe minimalist achievements like in Limbo, five little easter egg achievements. Instead of the 70 on most games with that type of thing.

Nah, there's more than enough content in the game. I'd square it off at a good 20,
seems like a pretty good number of all the cool things that you could do in the game, without going achievement crazy.

If we’re discussing achievements, we need three story-related ones:

Escapee (complete Zulag 1 and the Free-Fire Zone)
Back to Nature (complete Paramonian and Scrabanian Temples)
Industrial Revolution (complete Rupturefarms and the Board Room)

Then the obligatory all 99 and kill everyone.

That’s five. Dedicate however many others to silly shit.

Let’s face it: people aren’t going to be buying this for achievements, so why bother piling them on?

I would like to say that achievements don't take anything away from the gameplay, in my opinion, it's the exact opposite, it adds to the game.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but killing all the mudokons is not possible I think. In some game areas you have to save some mudokons to keep on the adventure. I don't play AO since a long time, so maybe I'm just mistaken.

Pedant.

Genoddcide
“Kill the maximum amount of Mudokons possible”

There, problem solved.

That's better.

Agreed. I've never felt achievements cheapen the game, and I've never played a game just for the achievements either. The extent of my reaction to earning a trophy is "Oh, well look at that..." and then I get back to playing the actual game.