You are joking, right? Have you ever heard of the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, Blood Libels, lynch mobs... the list goes on. Seriously... time to buy a history book.

Why?! You are yet to explain this point.




Oh, and more general point: Anyone reading this thread would have good reason to be confused, seeing as I have been in the position of defending both religion and atheism, sometimes in the same post.

I am an atheist, but I come from a religious background and I have a great deal of respect for people who are capable of having faith in something bigger than themselves. What I loathe, on the other hand, is small-minded little twerps who can't look beyond the end of their own noses and thus give religion the bad name that requires me to step in and defend it.

I read that article, Nate, and that guy is basically just saying "I'm against religion, so I can enjoy everything in life, even the sinful, lustful pleasures of it, and you can't argue against me because I ignore everyone else." To me, that guy seems to be the ignorant one.

The Crusades were fought against Muslims, people who had already conquered and killed thousands of Christians in the Holy Land. No, the Crusades were not fully just, but too many people confuse "Roman Catholicism" with "Christianity." The Roman Catholics are not true Christians because they do not believe the fundamental truths based in the Bible.

And yes, too many people call themselves Christians just to get money, like televangelists. They are not true Christians at all. The only true Christians are the ones that believe the fundamentals of the Bible and practice them in their lives.

NO TRUE CHRISTIAN WOULD BUTCHER THOUSANDS OF MUSLIMS

Agreed, Wings of Fire. True Christians are the ones who go into Muslim countries and try to convert them rather than kill them.

And dissuade everyone they can find from using condoms or medicine whilst infecting them with their western diseases.

I have no idea what you're talking about, Wings of Fire. Many times Christians bring medicines along with their Bibles, to help the people in the Eastern countries who don't have the European/American wealth.

And banning homoseuality and butt-secks!! We can't go on without butt-secks =(

Yes, because those are sinful. They are guilty pleasures rather than conscience-allowed pleasures.

See this is what I hate about religion. There is absolutely nothing harmful about homosexuality and butt-secks, yet some religious people like to pretend to. I also wouldn't care if they just kept it to themselves, and didn't try to ban it. Just live and let live, you know? If you think being gay is sinful, then avoid being gay. Well if you are gay, you're in for a ride. Otherwise let other people find their happiness.

See, this is what I hate about non-religious people: they have no moral basis at all and believe they are free to do whatever they want. Yeah, go out and murder someone, you say, because I can't argue against you, in your opinion.

What the fucking hell? ....

How is homosexuality anything close to murdering people? Homosexuality allow gay people to be happy. How is a guy fucking another guy's ass murder?

Not allowing people to be happy is a big crime in my eyes. Are gay people hurting your moral ego?

Atheists believe just as much as religious people that murder is wrong, if not more. Of course there are psychos, but those are found in the atheist AND religious groups.

Yes, because they insist that there is no God. If you believe in God, you believe his word, and his word expressly states that homosexuality is a sin. So is murder. You have no moral basis against homosexuality, so where is your moral basis against murder?

How about my personal stance is, without the help of some god, that murdering is wrong. My moral basis is that which I've formed by myself, and not the help of a book.
I do not need the promise of eternity in heaven to stop stealing, killing and whatever. I do what makes people happy. Murdering people doesn't make them happy.

Murder is wrong, homosexuality is not.

My conscience is as good a tool as your book, your faith does not give you the right to try to oppress others with your beliefs.

The fuck? Are you equating murder to homosexuality?

How dare you assume that I have no moral basis. When I don't kill someone, it isn't because I'm afraid of eternal repercussions, it's because I know that causing harm is wrong.

Giood work that has been entirely undone by the Catholic campaign against condoms, exponentially increasing the spread of HIV while claiming that condoms increase transmission. Self-righteous lies that cause agonising death and misery.

My morals are utterly superior to those found in the Bible in every way. I don't know whether they are superior to your own, because I know damn well that your morals don't come from the Bible. You are better than that.

If you wanted to make a proper argument against homosexuality, I'd suggest not putting it on the same moral level as murder. The reason why most of us have nothing against homosexuality is that we're not bigoted cunt's who want to stand in between people who make each other happy.

My moral basis on murder is basically this... so how exactly could you mention those two things on the same paragraph? Better yet, have you ever smoked? Drunk alcohol? Taken drugs? Had sex outside of marriage? Masturbated? Had a bad thought about another human being? If so, by your logic, you're going straight to Hell.

Now stop posting your mindless drivel before you end up offending someone.

EDIT: Beaten to the point :(

There there, it's ok *pats*. We need numbers anyway, to show people that it's not just one crazy guy/gal talking.

Anyway I don't think he's offending anyone. More like.... Provoking people to argue against his very close minded posts.
I really hope that he will at least let other people live their life as they wish(as long as they aren't murdering anyone).

There were people before religion you know. And clearly their lack of morals has left us all non-existant, from all that murdering of our ancestors that they clearly did.

There were not have you even read the bible!

Have you?

The saucy bits.

http://www.andyshotsauce.com/images/1522.jpg

?

I think the bible would have been a more interesting read if you appended the phrase 'If you know what I mean' to every instance of 'X begat Y'.

No-one. I was responding to T-nex, and even then it was a joke.

That attitude is everything that is wrong with religion. You people can't think for yourself, and that's why some atheists feel the need to 'fight' against religion. You need a book that was written thousands of years ago to tell you what's right and what's wrong. If the pope stood up during that (yearly?) event at the Vatican and told everyone that god told him that homosexuality is no longer a sin and everyone present should draw a number and give him a blowjob, you idiots would do it without even thinking twice.

As I have said before, you are confusing true Christians with Roman Catholics! I believe the Pope is wrong.

You people are free to live your lives as you wish. I am not saying that. I am simply stating I disagree with that. You can ignore me or curse at me (which have both been done.) Fine, I can live with that. But why do you refuse to let me speak if that's what this thread is all about?

We are letting you speak. To quote you, we are simply stating we disagree with that.

NOTE TO CERTAIN PERSON/S:

Humans are capable of making their own judgements. Whether we believe in a higher power or not, we are capable of seeing wrong when it is blindingly obvious.

A base principle for me is that:

1) Anything that prevents bad is good, and vice versa.
2) Happiness is always good, because everyone knows that's good. It is what we feel when exposed to good.
3) Rule one takes priority, so happiness for one that prevents happiness for others is still bad.

For example:
Lonlieness prevents happiness (bad).
Homosexuality prevents homosexuals from being lonely (good)
Ergo: Homosexuality is good.

Urgh.

The persecution complex.

We're not refusing to let you speak, we're disagreeing with you.

To my way of thinking, though, you're saying everyone is free to make their own code of law. What if someone's law says that sins like theft and adultery and murder are perfectly acceptable because they make that person happy?

Have you noticed that Christianity has lasted since the beginning of the world until now and shows no sign of stopping?

Replace 'Pope' with 'Jezus' and voila, the point becomes valid again.

But God's Word has not changed, unlike the Pope's mind. Jesus will not change His mind.

Just because there are some fucked up people, does not mean we all have to start listening to a frankly opressive religion.

If directed at me, read rule 3 again. Killing someone deprives them of any happiness they would have had in their life. If directed at everyone, read the NOTE TO CERTAIN PERSON/S. Humanity decided murder is wrong a long time ago.

Yes, but to use your argument, so has murder. Surely it must be good if everyone keeps doing it, right?

No, I never ever noticed that before because I was under the impression that Christianity was preceded by Judaism.

Also, Islam overtook Christianity as the fastest growing religion a decade or so ago.

A significant weakness when the world changes at an exponentially increasing pace.

Thats because he's dead.

There's another thing.

Firstly if both Christianity and Judaism are to be believed God changed his mind an awful lot.

Secondly part of the reason Islam is growing in populairty is because one of the core messages of it is to change and be flexible to accomadate the changing world.

You want to tell him to his face that he didn't change his mind, even if he just told you that he did?

Seriously, if jesus came down to you and told you that being gay is from that point on accepted, what would you do?

Edit: Wrong thread.