Yes Nate, Christians are stupid like that, you should really know that by now.

And yes, evil does exist and it spawned Paris Hilton.

Havoc, was I asking you? Try to be a little less predictable in the future.


As for why I asked the question, I like to push people in to justifying their beliefs, so they're not just doing stuff because daddy said so. Like Nepharski, who had his mind opened by us and became much more accepting of all around him.

My experience is that 'doing stuff because daddy said so' is the foundation every single religion is built upon. Very few healthy adults will switch to being religious at the first ever glance on a bible. Most, if not all religious people in the world are religious because they have been taught to believe in something without question.

However, should you ever invent a way to undo years of brainwashing, please let me know and I will support your cause.

I agree. However, I also know quite a few intelligent, religious people who have questioned their religion but managed to maintain their faith. I also know an very large number of people who grew up in totally unreligious households and have now become religious as an adult.

The latter group inluds Obama, actually. However, I suspect he just adopted his faith as a means to rise in the political ranks, which I don't blame him for. Like an atheist could ever get elected as president in these times.

Hey, I don't use American currency.

Yeah. I think that the majority of the Democratic party are closet atheists.

Yeah, Obama was pushing it already by being black. He wouldn't have made it if he was also a godless heathen.

Previously posted by Havoc. "Yes Nate, Christians are stupid like that, you should really know that by now."
Lololol, all christian's are stupid, and the thought of
following in such a ignorant religion, shows how stupid a person is?

As a follow up, Yes, all atheist's are "That" ignorant.
and they'll do or say anything they can to insult us with common sense, I'm finished with this little argument. i suggest, you say nothing more to me pending on this issue.
And as a last word, to reply to Havoc's little private message, we christian's follow a guild line called tolerance of those that try to shoot down anything said by us.

Judging by the way you use the word 'little' a lot, I'd say you're trying to show how 'big' you are.

I didn't even realise there was an argument. If there was, we were finished with it ages ago.


I'm an atheist, but I don't have anything against you or any other Christian I've ever met. Not personally. I don't have anything against your beliefs either (as such). I'm respectful of what people believe in (and so should you be), and I also know that not all Christians are the same. Therefore you should know that not all atheists are, either.
You say we'll do or say anything we can to insult you with common sense. You're wrong. Some might, but I won't.

And I'm not sure that Havoc was being entirely serious.

Learn to use quotes, man. It looks nicer.

Except that I'm an atheist and I'm clearly not ignorant of issues about religion. Neither was I intolerant or insulting. I asked you a simple, yet important, question and I'm still hoping for an answer.

By definition yes. You point to a table and tell me there is cheesecake there, while there clearly isn't any. Then you tell me I can't see it because it's invisible. But then how do YOU know there is an invisible cheesecake there? To which you would respond, "I know there is a cheesecake there because I found a note saying it's there."

In the above scenario, I think any normal person would be calling you an idiot. And they would have every reason to.

What if someone said they thought the lollipop they were eating was sweet? What an idiot, thinking the taste is imbedded in the food...Yes, and that's blue you're seeing in the sky...ha!

If that someone gives me the lollipop and I put it in my mouth, would I not taste the same sweetness?

You probably wouldn't taste exactly the same sweetness, there is in fact no actual property of 'sweetness' it's a gustatory perception.

Why would you want a second-hand lollipop?

You are both missing the point...

Yeah, you would taste the same perception of the chemical compounds that compose the lollipop.

You are missing my completely obvious yet completely ineffective joke.

Then come up with a better joke.

Why are you guys being so anal about what a lolipop tastes sweet? I don't care if it's a correct term or not, but a lolipop tastes sweet, and therefor IS sweet. If you don't know what a person means by saying this or simply choose not to, then I say you should be less anal <.< srsly. It's a stupid thing to complain about.

My point is that it's pointless to argue against faith because it doesn't rely on what makes arguments valid. If you're crazy for being able to see a jar on the table thatn no one else does, you might as well have been crazy in earlier times for suggesting that there are rays of energy surging around everywhere and are completelt indetectable by human senses. Faith just is, it can't be touched. It can certainly be thrown out the door though.

I HATE BAD ANALOGIES

I recognised it was a poor joke. The joke was that it was a poor joke. Would you like me to spoon-feed you my shitty humour next time?

I don't like shitty humor to begin with.

That's all part of the point. If people liked shitty humour, it wouldn't be shitty. The joke is that it is shitty. You've yet again missed the point.

oh god, Havocock is giving tips on jokes now. after all he would know what with the recent hilarious blog.

he's multi talented. it would seem that way, at least. cue the reply "i wasn't saying i was funny/thanks for pointing out the obvious."

Ok. So can you tell me why you choose to close your eyes to all the good arguments that have been made in this threads versus religion, and decide to play the "Atheists are just meen buttholes!!" card?
We all know by now that Havoc hates religion, and wouldn't mind bashing on them. Why point this out? Also he did sort of explain his reasoning later.

You seem to me, like a pick-and-chooser. Just like you choose to ignore everything from the bible, and think you can just choose your own path. It doesn't work like that!! You can't just commit crimes and then ask for forgiveness from God. At least I don't hope so. It sounds terrible. This world would be so evil. Wait... It is.

And why is it that you tell people not to discuss this further, yet proceed to get the last word in? What mainly bugs me is the text in bold.

I want answers damnit!

(I don't expect you to actually answer me btw)

Btw people, I think this discussion is far more interesting than all the spam above me.

Seems like he does think that, as he has no problem threatening me with... something, in various PM's. Seriously dude, if you're going to threaten someone at least tell them what you're going to do.

Anyway, after telling him that I was not afraid of some 18 year old newbie to life and who has 'bodyguard' filled in under Occupation, he was very quick to delete his profile page. Funny stuff.

Mister, do not try to pretend I've never made you laugh. I have my moments.