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DWeedMan 09-30-2016 04:03 PM

I know they took away Mudokon baton beatings in Abe's Exoddus, but regardless can it please be as such that you can actually kill mudokons by beating them to death? Words cannot describe my disappointment on realising in NNT that they survived indefinitely, no matter how much you whacked their brains out.

This should be development priority no 1 IMO.

Michael 10-01-2016 02:47 AM

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In New 'n' Tasty when you die it always just feels like such a non-event, the classics just had more of a punch to them when you got killed. I don't think this is a case of me being a desensitised freak either because I still get a sense of shock from the classics to this day

i was talking to a friend the other day about this exact issue, trying to conclude exactly what was so different in New n Tasty that makes the deaths less visceral. In the classics, death was unexpected and made me jump almost every time! Everything was so much more tense, and as much as it was down to player skill, there was still an element of just hoping that you'd make it through.

New n Tasty has the one hit kills, but still doesn't feel tense or frightening to me. Perhaps it's a combination of many small things that change the atmosphere. I think in part, it's due to the sound design with the death theme playing less sudden and loud. Also the visuals being more cartoon, so everything feels less real.

There's something to be said about low res pixel graphics, that they leave a lot more to the player's imagination to interpret details for themselves. Perhaps part of what made the gore so grotesque was actually our own interpretations of what was shown? This effect is lost on new high res games where everything is explicitly shown and there's little left to the individual's imagination- especially relevant to horror as it made games affect you more personally.

Samtastic 10-01-2016 03:00 AM

Yeah I think the hard mode should be as hard as it was from the original Abe. Instant death for falling would make the game feel just like the original.

Manco 10-01-2016 08:21 AM

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i was talking to a friend the other day about this exact issue, trying to conclude exactly what was so different in New n Tasty that makes the deaths less visceral. In the classics, death was unexpected and made me jump almost every time! Everything was so much more tense, and as much as it was down to player skill, there was still an element of just hoping that you'd make it through.

A big part of that was that death was always instant. In NnT when a Slig shoots at Abe, there’s a slight delay before death since Abe has a health meter – even on hard mode, you won’t die immediately to everything.

The sound effects for each death were always VERY loud too. Gunshots, meat/bone saw grinding, mine explosions, electrocution, the thud of falling from a height etc were all way louder than anything else going on in the game.

Very sudden + very loud = high shock and high tension

Gunnr 10-01-2016 07:44 PM

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Very sudden + very loud = high shock and high tension

I definatly agree with this

My Soulstorm hopes and expectaions

Paul 10-02-2016 03:40 PM

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I know they took away Mudokon baton beatings in Abe's Exoddus, but regardless can it please be as such that you can actually kill mudokons by beating them to death? Words cannot describe my disappointment on realising in NNT that they survived indefinitely, no matter how much you whacked their brains out.

This should be development priority no 1 IMO.

I feel like I'm missing something here.. you've always been able to beat them to death in AO and AE.

DWeedMan 10-02-2016 08:03 PM

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I feel like I'm missing something here.. you've always been able to beat them to death in AO and AE.

I'm likely misremembering whether or not mudokon whacking was in Exoddus, I haven't played it in a long while now. Of course in Oddysee (and Exoddus if it was in it as you claim) one was able to beat them to death, I just was (and still am) very disappointed one was not able to in NnT.

Havoc 10-03-2016 02:37 AM

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I'm likely misremembering whether or not mudokon whacking was in Exoddus, I haven't played it in a long while now. Of course in Oddysee (and Exoddus if it was in it as you claim) one was able to beat them to death, I just was (and still am) very disappointed one was not able to in NnT.

I have to admit I never tried it in NnT, but if it was left out then that's pretty stupid.

Varrok 10-03-2016 07:43 AM

Sadly, I can confirm that

Vlam 10-03-2016 09:53 AM

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Well, call me a sicko all you want but I really want the overall sense of gore to have more of an impact in Soulstorm. In New 'n' Tasty when you die it always just feels like such a non-event, the classics just had more of a punch to them when you got killed. I don't think this is a case of me being a desensitised freak either because I still get a sense of shock from the classics to this day. I mean, the blood was barely visible in New 'n' Tasty too which leads me to believe that they purposely toned things down for a safer age-rating.

Matt Glanville talked about the player being like Abe's "Guardian Angel" at that EGX talk and I think that was a pretty good description. There should be more of an impact to deaths to actively make the player feel bad for messing up. I want to see Abe's bloody head fly off into the screen after stepping into a bone-drill. I want to see Abe get impaled by a Scrab - they can finally make good use of modern technology to properly show this in ways that weren't quite possible in the PS1 days. I want to be disgusted by this game. Is that a bit weird?

(And I totally get that not everyone has the same tastes so we won't find the same things to be "violent"; maybe to you New 'n' Tasty was too much of a gore-fest. It's a really iffy subject)

It's understandable but one must keep in mind that Abe in NnT is similar to the one in MO (which explains a lot).

Scrabaniac 10-19-2016 11:15 AM

I would love to see procedurally generated AI.. For example, A Slig would become more alert when Mudokons go missing in it's patrol path, or if they spot Abe. I think it would add a nice difficulty to the game.

Michael 10-19-2016 12:50 PM

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I would love to see procedurally generated AI.. For example, A Slig would become more alert when Mudokons go missing in it's patrol path, or if they spot Abe. I think it would add a nice difficulty to the game.

As cool as that would be, it could make certain areas unpredictable and could lead to problems with puzzles. I think it was this thread where we were talking about the puzzles needing to operate in a set way for them to work properly, so if you do the same action you expect the same result. I'm not sure that kind of variety would be best suited to a puzzle/timing oriented game.

On another note, I was thinking recently about how in New n Tasty, a few times when possessing a slig in the background, I tried to shoot at sligs in the foreground. After nothing happened, I realised that feature was only introduced in Exoddus and must've been left out (unless I completely missed it somehow!) I hope that returns in Soulstorm :)

Connell 10-19-2016 02:39 PM

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As cool as that would be, it could make certain areas unpredictable and could lead to problems with puzzles. I think it was this thread where we were talking about the puzzles needing to operate in a set way for them to work properly, so if you do the same action you expect the same result. I'm not sure that kind of variety would be best suited to a puzzle/timing oriented game.

Well Lorne has been talking recently about how he wants each playthrough to feel "unique" to the point where each person playing has a different experience from the next to share. Sounds like they are going for a more unpredictable approach. He's also said that Soulstorm's puzzles will have multiple ways they can be solved.

Scrabaniac 10-20-2016 04:00 AM

I don't think having Procedural AI would impact puzzles if they were designed to fit around that purpose. I think that knowing gameplay will be different each time will add replay value to the game too

Samtastic 10-20-2016 11:58 AM

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I would love to see procedurally generated AI.. For example, A Slig would become more alert when Mudokons go missing in it's patrol path, or if they spot Abe. I think it would add a nice difficulty to the game.

Metal Gear Solid style! Enemy sighted! Requesting backup unit! Then all the other Sligs come along and try to kill Abe.

HansuOddie 10-20-2016 01:38 PM

I wouldn't have minded the health system in New ´n´ Tasty TOO much if it wasn't the fact that Abe only said ouch and ran normally after being shot by a slig.

What I'd like to see is when Abe gets shot, he limps, or at least becomes slower. Like, imagine Abe being chased by some sligs and slogs, and when one of them shoots him, he starts to limp, becoming slower and an easier prey for the slogs. In order to protect himself, he would have to knock over something, like barrels. This would slow down whoever is chasing him (this wouldn't work on enemies such as Scarbs or Paramites tho). However I find it difficult to imagine a wounded Abe being able to jump onto a platform for safety, so maybe get to a lift/elevator?

Scrabaniac 10-20-2016 01:53 PM

I think that is is a bit too imaginitive.. as cool as it sounds, I don't think they would implement it. I'll just be happy if Abe made the classic "UGH!" sound when he is shot, rather than "AGHJIBBUHH" In new n' Tasty

Varrok 10-20-2016 08:45 PM

I'd totally be saying "Ouch!" when shot.

Silver angel 10-21-2016 12:53 PM

I prefer not to have health indicator at all. This is Oddworld's main gameplay base - found out how puzzle warks and do it right. One mistake and you are dead. This makes you feel fear like character you are playing. I do not think that someone would survive if released in him the whole clip from Slig weapon. :)

Varrok 10-21-2016 01:37 PM

I think Abe should be invincible and sligs should come and pat him on his back whenever he fails a puzzle saying: "Do not worry, we all know you did your best!"

Vlam 10-21-2016 01:40 PM

By the way, Michael, OWI wants to "give players the tools to forge their own way through the game" which seemed like a good idea at first but there was only one way to solve a puzzle in AO and AE... Except in the beginning of RuptureFarms (it is some kind of tutorial). The risk is that the player might chose the easiest path to get to the next screen if there's no incentive like saving more Mudokons. Plus, the game could be easier (the last conference at the EGX made it clear that SoulStorm should be accessible to all kind of publics).

Silver angel 10-21-2016 02:22 PM

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By the way, Michael, OWI wants to "give players the tools to forge their own way through the game" which seemed like a good idea at first but there was only one way to solve a puzzle in AO and AE... Except in the beginning of RuptureFarms (it is some kind of tutorial). The risk is that the player might chose the easiest path to get to the next screen if there's no incentive like saving more Mudokons. Plus, the game could be easier (the last conference at the EGX made it clear that SoulStorm should be accessible to all kind of publics).

If there will be several difficulty levels, I think it's ok.
When I played AO for the first time, cursed everything because got a feeling like I walk through hell and thought this game is just impossible to complete. Though in second walkthrough I found that it became too easy for me. :)

Connell 10-21-2016 09:38 PM

OWI are aware that they're known as "that super difficult PS1 game", so I think there will always be a mode for us hardcore fans that can play Oddysee without worrying about difficulty. Granted, what we knew as standard is now classed as "super-mega-hard", but it's still there for us. If anyone wants to play something easier, the option will almost definitely be there too. When there's difficulty settings, everyone wins :)

Varrok 10-21-2016 11:50 PM

The thing is Oddworld games aren't very hard, actually. They aren't Castlevania. They aren't Ninja Gaiden (NES or XBOX), not even Dark Souls. Nowhere close, actually.

Manco 10-23-2016 06:44 AM

They aren’t hard for the people who are good at them, sure. But they’ve also been out for nearly 20 years now, so the fans who play those games have had plenty of practice at this point.

Don’t forget that most of the more casual audience who remember those old Oddworld games played them when they were kids, and Oddworld wasn’t a kid’s game and was a lot harder than the games that were meant for kids.

Not to mention that the games industry today has moved in favor of easier games with lower learning curves.

Fischkopf 10-26-2016 08:41 PM

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The thing is Oddworld games aren't very hard, actually. They aren't Castlevania. They aren't Ninja Gaiden (NES or XBOX), not even Dark Souls. Nowhere close, actually.

That's true. I never found Oddworld games to be very difficult. Maybe challenging and sometimes frustrating (i love frustration in small doses) but not infuriatingly difficult. Heart Of Darkness was very difficult for instance.

Nepsotic 10-30-2016 01:06 PM

That was mainly down to poor games design.

Fischkopf 10-30-2016 01:08 PM

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That was mainly down to poor games design.

And unresponsive controls. ;)

It looked nice though.