The balls are hanging from wires, so maybe the move on a cable to where it would be safe to get in one. Like a docking bay or something.

Or lower to the ground to let them in and out, but raise high in the air to keep them in.

This was pretty much what I had assumed.

Or Flying Sligs carried them there.

It was hard work but it was worth it.

...need to spread some rep around.

Well this has been an interesting thread to read, and one I haven't had a clear idea of how to approach. Let me see what specific and general things I can reply to.

First of all, that screenshot in OXM was taken without any lighting except the single light used to build the level. As you can see from the E3 screens and video, the lighting makes it seem much closer to the original. A number of times I've glimpsed the artists' screens in the corner of my eye and had to double take to see if they were looking at their own work or had brought up the original screen for reference.

Lighting is going to be a massive undertaking. Oddworld has always had a surprisingly specific lighting style, and our environment artists have talked long and hard with Lorne about how to replicate it. But you have to remember that we can't just airbrush in some shadow or highlight wherever we want. We aren't playing with paintings, we're creating 3D spaces, and the lighting has to make sense in that context.

We're beyond the stage of having placeholders, but this is still alpha, so of course not everything is final. But the character models that have been done are final. What about Abe looks wrong to you, Nepsotic?

They're the correct size. They probably look different because now there's perspective, whereas before everything was perfectly side-on and represented as being equally distant from the camera at all times.

A lot more uniqueness is going into different areas in New 'n' Tasty, compared with the large amounts of cut-and-paste art that went into the original screens.

Heh, we spotted that. Just a little mistake of the wrong death event. It's a simple fix, and it's probably already been done.

It's funny how slow things fall in engine when they're obeying all the same laws of physics as they would in reality. The falling meat has a number of simple numbers to describe its initial speed at spawn, mass, speed of rotation. It's a simple matter to play around with them until they seem right, but as others have said, sound plays a huge part in conveying their plausible physicality.

The placeholder effect we used in the Eurogamer footage has been replaced by this one.

But you don't even comment on the Native scrubbing the floor.

Sligs aren't bulky, they're scrawny.

They raise and lower. They're lowered to the ground to let Muds in and out, then suspended in the tower overnight. As Employee of the Year, Abe's cell gets suspended higher than anyone else's.

I agree with Nepsotic. You can't honestly say that this:
http://i.imgur.com/Nrmg78N.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/4ksT4la.jpg
looks exactly like this:
http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespo..._640screen.jpg
http://gimmegimmegames.com/wp-conten...012/06/abe.jpg

Okay, in case you don't see that much of a difference (which I find quite strange), I'm talking about his face, specifically his eye areas.

I really hope you'll work it out, because lights and shadows are incredibly important to keep the atmosphere of Oddworld, and the current lightning is... well, sorry to say that, but not good enough in my opinion.

Also, why did you make that cutscene animation so overly cartoonish, JAW? I know it wasn't very realistic to begin with, but... darn... It was a serious moment of the intro, and it just killed it. You might as well add this:
http://i.imgur.com/4ksT4la.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tMrQ3Id.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PBrUgbt.jpg
:(

... you promised, JAW.

Alright, I was being too harsh. It doesn't look awful, but there is something off about the face. Like Varrok said, I'm relatively sure it's the eyes.
I don't want to shit on JAW's hard work, because it's not bad, but is there no way to import the models from the original FMVs?
Thinking about it, that might be a bad idea.

It's not a horrible model. It's just the face that looks bad. Everything else is fine.

D'oh my bad

Wait why is it scrubbing the floor of a desert I'm so confused

Were you guys expecting the same kind of budget for CG cutscenes that the original games had?

It's not nearly as expensive now as it was in 1997.

That post made me laugh a lot. :) Although you may have a point with the face (except I think it doesn't look bad, it's just different from the original, which is why it's probably jarring to some), I want to point out:
You're getting that impression from a couple of seconds of low quality footage, without its soundtrack and context? Comparing it to the original FMV, his movements are just as goofy.

Nah, I wouldn't say that original animation is just as goofy. This one from Wii U trailer/teaser is much goofier. The original is goofy *a bit*. Like, a perfect balance between goofy and climatic.

I agree with the points about his face. He should look a little more haggard and wrinkly, like the aging janitor at a factory or something. But at the end of the day, it is a minor complaint and probably not worth it in terms of hours:impact.

Oh. Well, as a central game mechanic, this is more of a sticking point. They're sparkly and blue, which I feel is entirely too fairytale. Admittedly Abe's chant motes are blue, so you might be trying to go for a visual connection there, but the firey look fits much better with Oddworld's primal/grimy aesthetic. On a more conceptual note, the blue might give the impression of calm and safety, but the fire gives the impression of rebellion and defiant freedom, with a certain "tribal" quality. There are advantages to both, but I'd prefer to go with the latter.

The spiralling plughole animation is a bit less dramatic than the old crash-and-split ring of torches (in 2D we could only see the top and bottom ones, but I always assumed it was a ring), but I might just be getting too sentimental about the original. But then, I can't see any particular reason why the new one would be "better". If it ain't broke... as they say.

Also, I haven't seen the entire opening animation, but it would be nice if one or two of the birds could just be pecking at the floor while idle. Even if they are sentient manifestations of the Mudokon spirit, it always seemed odd that they'd spend all day and night flying in a perfect circle just in case the saviour of the Mudokons arrived at that moment. Even angels sit back and tune their lyres occasionally.

I see you haven't made it so you can glimpse the Monsaic Sanctum through it, but I could take or leave that (though, again, I would prefer it was put in).

Of that quality? Yeah....it's pretty expensive.

I like how they have adapted the Bells in the temple, it makes more sense having a rock hanging on a rope than a floating metal ball, the shape also makes it look more mystical

Hey Wil, I just had a quick comment regarding reality. Are you guys attempting to replicate the experience of gravity on Oddworld?

On Earth we know that objects accelerate at about 9.8 [m/s^2] (near the surface).

Perhaps someone has done the math already for Oddworld?

We know that Oddworld's surface area is ten times that of Earth: A_odd = 10*A_earth; R_odd = sqrt(10)*R_earth; R_earth = 6378100 [m]

As assumption we can take the density of Oddworld to be the same as Earth's: rho_earth = rho_odd = 5515 [kg/m^3]

Volume of Oddworld: V_odd = (4/3)*pi*(R_odd)^3 = 3.4369E22 [m^3]

Mass of Oddworld: M_odd = rho * V_odd = 1.8954E26 [kg]

G = 6.6738E-11 [m^3]/[kg * s^2] (yes, I'm assuming the Oddverse has a "universal gravitational constant" equivalent to our universe)

Finally, surface gravity of oddworld: g_odd = (G * M_odd)/(R_odd)^2 = 31 [m/s^2]


That's about three times the surface gravity of Earth!


Not expecting you guys to act on this...just food for thought.


SOF

Well the original models are NURBs, and there's no way they're going to run in realtime. But the current models use the NURBs as reference, and they're pretty spot on. Last thing I did at work today was composite a picture of the two side by side. All the sizes and proportions and shapes are the same. Really. You can overlay them and fade between them and the lines stay in the same place.

There are three tiny differences. First, his eyelids are deeper. That's the only way I can describe it. You'll see what I mean when I post the comparison. Second, his mouth is a bit more downturned at the edges. Third, his stitches are a tad bigger, closer together and higher up. That's it. Only noticeable when you put them side by side. Not like Munch's Oddysee, where Abe is outrageously off-model. Miniscule differences.

I think two things are happening here. First, you're comparing very different images. The old ones and the new ones you're looking at next to each other have Abe in different poses, at different angles, under different lights. The pictures have different levels of brightness and contrast. And the old promotional pictures are just plain Photoshopped.

Second of all, and I have no tactful way of putting this, you're expecting an unreasonable level of similarity. It's diminishing returns for us to go delving for pixel-perfect reconstructions, especially since game design and computer graphics and the Oddworld style have all evolved so much since 1997. These cartoonish designs you're upset about are the originals, designed for tiny screens and limited colour palettes. And then you launch in unanimous criticism when a wrinkle is slightly to the left.

Heh, someone must have left the wrong flag checked, giving him Scrub behaviour. Or maybe it's just inevitable since Natives don't react to farts in that way.

Would you consider the current portal effect broken?

Well that's a bit of a problem, because as you identify, gravity and radius are both bigger. That means the planet's centre is going to be much denser. Unless you're suggesting Oddworld is filled with massive hollow seams, in which case you'd be right... but I would think they're not big enough to make that much of a difference in the end.

I admire your application of Earth-universe physics to fictional universes, don't get me wrong. But it's always worth remembering that Oddworld doesn't sit in the same universe. The laws governing it are different. And conveniently so!

More importantly, it's worth noting that Lorne has backed away from this "ten-times-the-size" concept. He first hinted at that to fans in Nate's most recent interview with him, but made it a bit more clear when he spoke with Katzenjammer Records.

Yeah, shame on you, Nepsotic.

...

Okay, okay, I understand that most of this is directed to me. I admit I over-reacted about the animation. I don't know, the animation just felt wrong for me for some reason. Nevermind that, sorry.

But I still think something can be done about Abe's face, to remove that "no-eyebrow/no-eyelid" look (I put that in quotes, because he doesn't really have those in the original). To look good he's supposed to have shadows near his eyeballs, right? And if the lightning system causes them to vanish... then... maybe darken those parts in the texture? Or anything...

You can't blame us for being overly critical, really. But as long as you're sure it's looking good, then we can trust you, just take into account what Varrok and I have been saying.

I think we need to see Abe pulling some more Abe-y expressions than the "Zoinks!" one we've seen so far.

Sadly, yes. It's just too smooth, fluffy and shiny to mesh with the grimy, clunky, jagged art style it's surrounded by. That goes for the lightning gates too, albeit to a much lesser extent.

When I said "If it ain't broke", I meant that I'd assumed that if there wasn't a significant reason for a redesign, like not working in 3D or with a moving camera, JAW would just copy the original AO design.

Also, orange is creepy. Blue is less so. Oddworld is supposed to be creepy.

What was so bad about making portals like the original ones? "oh no here he goes again"

I thought the idea MM said to Glitch at Eurogamer was great, being able to see the Sanctum through the portal. Failing that, the orange orbs at the top and bottom of the portal were just my preference but that's down to nostalgia you know?

Yeah, they could resemble the originals but have a 'ring' sort of appearance.

Don't even get me started on the stat boards.

Wil, you're poking this slumbering dragon with an elum prod. You know what will happen if it wakes.

I just watched the video again. I really like what JAW has been doing with the environments. There's lots of shit going on in the background, which I love.

As for the bird portals; the last time I mentioned them I hadn't realised that we were only seeing the portals in the process of being opened. How do they look before Abe chants? Are they still circles of birds? I still kinda feel like they should look a bit more sparkly and mystical when opening, rather than just clouds of white smoke.

EDIT: I just had a thought and I can't find the NnT suggestion thread, so I'll just put it here. I'm assuming that quicksave is being implemented in this game. I'd like it if quicksaving saves the state of the bird portals, so that if they've flown away we actually need to leave the area and return to make them come back. It always felt like a cheat that in AE we could quicksave and quickload to retreive them.

If you look closely you can see one here, at 0:17 by the broken AC unit or whatever it is that's sparking (Good replacement for an electric barrier, BTW! I wonder if they intend to place more environmental hazards like that).

Seems the side of the portal bird's flight pattern is facing Abe rather than the screen now, and I wonder if that's a mistake or if there's a reason for it.

But I will agree that the blue-white cloud is a little naff and underwhelming... To 3D-ify and emulate the old effect, I'd try having a sphere that doubles as the portal opens, one floating up, another floating down, and a narrow, sparking column of light stretching out between them. Mudokons would jump into said column, and maybe it could widen briefly as if "consuming" them when they jump through it. Or maybe the disappearing models could be masked by a bright white flash or something if you wanna be lazy about it.

But perhaps it's too hard to do for little payoff/fan satisfaction when there are other more important areas of the game to work on.

The portals should nick the old Star Trek transporter sound effects. That'll fix everything.

Or maybe they could have a 'new' mechanic altogether...

http://www.oddworldforums.net/attach...1&d=1371109111

This took long. Also, Abe is left-handed, apparently.

I read here that it should look more powerful looking, so I mocked up what I thought the original portal would look like in 3D space.

The green indicates the effect that would go around the edge of the portal lines, making reality look all bent, like the effect in the garrys mod shot.

The red arrows just show those little streams of light or electricity or portal energy going up and down the edges of the rip.

http://s22.postimg.org/itaop2wcw/portal_effect.jpg

I just mocked it up really quick, so the edges of the rip would be alot thinner. I think you could already achieve this with the engine you guys are using. Just 2 constant effect events pulsing (the smoke in the portal you guys have now) and the electricity effect you currently have too. But, i'm not an expert nor am I wonder woman, so i'm honestly stabbing in the dark here lol.

But overall I'm very pleased with the progress and your efforts of the development so far, seriously, thank you :) Just a few little things need tweaking up. I think all of us are willing to wait, so take your time :)

I'm unsure if you guys have discussed it, and I'm certainly not going to look through 7 pages of posts to find out, but have you seen that remade intro from the demo version of AO?

It's at the end of this interview

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...IZpxRo#t=1740s

I'm really not sure what to think about it, I'm really in two minds, as nice as it looks, at the same time, it really doesn't look good, but I'm goona assume it's early days yet and it hasen't been made to the highest quality possible yet.

Nice find. Yeah I have agree about intro. It looks great aside from a few minor details such as Abe's animation and the boardroom. However I think the intro has been shortened just for the trailer. The AO Intro is pretty long if I recall.

For those who just want to see the intro, it's at 0:37:31

E: I just noticed the other Mudokons don't have ponytails.

Also welcome back.

This looks really great, the idea of having a light-bending effect sounds really smart and looks a lot closer to how the original portals looked.

On the topic of portals, the E3 footage doesn’t really have any sound effects in it so I’m curious as to whether the original buzzing and humming sound will be used, or if they’re going with the sound effect from the Eurogamer reveal.

e: You can see the section JG linked on its own here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dNZmbyP5ug

I noticed around the 2:10 mark, Abe walks by a bird portal and the birds don’t fly away.

It's not shortened, it's a direct remake from the intro of the demo version, for me it looked good up until the boardroom scene, that looked awful!

That whole intro looked like it was unfinished – placeholder voiceover, very little lighting effects, they only showed really cropped closeup scenes, they rushed through it and didn’t let people focus on any one thing for too long. You can tell on the Rupturefarms flyover at the beginning that the sign and the factory in the background are flat matte paintings rather than 3D models.

They probably wanted to show part of the opening for the trailer but haven’t fully completed all the assets for the finished version, so they went with what they had. I wouldn’t read too much into it.

So you don't need to worry then. If it was the intro from the Demo. Hopefully the full version will have a longer and improved intro.

I didn't get to talk about the Portals. We are the only community to nitpick about this but I have to agree, I would like to see orange coming back. Mainly for staying true to the original. I also really liked how the portals opened up and the sounds they made. In New N Tasty, they just look like a ring with a cloud of smoke and I can't see them making the same sounds.

I really like V_O_T concept. Enhance that to make an amazing portal effect. I can see the current portal effect with the orbs on top looking quite nice.

As for Abe's face, I do see where people are coming from. He just looks a bit too colourful. I'm not complaining about the model though, All the models look fantastic.

Regarding to the discussion earlier about how Abe is a little different, the one thing I find off about Abe's face whether it was a trick of the light or not, was his lips. They're whitish and, as I mentioned before...

It looks like he has a mustache.