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-   -   Skyrim (http://www.oddworldforums.net/showthread.php?t=20570)

AlexFili 11-29-2011 12:32 AM

I'd love an Oddworld game in the style of Skyrim and Fallout.
How is the magic crafting in Skyrim?

Dynamithix 11-29-2011 02:59 AM

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That`s funny. You seemed so sure that Arkham City was your GOTY just a few weeks ago.

Well yes, it's an amazing game and I get hyped up really easily, but now that I've played both (and DX:HR for that matter) for at least 40 hours plus, I can safely say this is a better game IMO. Don't get me wrong though, I really really like Arkham City too.

lloyd 11-29-2011 10:00 AM

http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2011/...enshots-09.jpg

Mr. Bungle 11-29-2011 01:13 PM

That's beautiful. I need this game.

hedjeroo 12-01-2011 02:41 AM

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Today I finally fought my first lich and it completely obliterated me. It was barely a fight. Although it didn't exactly help that right before meeting the lich, I got the shit beaten out of me by a Draugr Overlord. I'm starting to think that maybe using one-handed weapons and restoration is a bad idea since I'm not able to block.

Two handed weapons won't get you much luck either, it's pretty much hide behind a rock and smack it til it dies if you're having difficulty. My boyfriend's playing two-handed (unfortunately with no silly sneak-attacking orcs with battleaxes stuff like in the previous games!). He got his ass kicked by his first lich plenty... Though he had the misfortune of having a dragon to fight as well, getting blinded by its breath then having a 15 foot wide powered fireball to dodge.

I haven't had much chance to play because my boyfriend's playing lots, but I'm enjoying watching and he's loving it. I'm playing an Archer/Sword-n'-Board Khajiit, with a little bit of sneaky. He's playing a Nordic Tank, essentially. Heavy armour and big weapons and all. I envied his choice in doing this when I saw his character hop on the neck of a dragon and smash its brains in... :(

The scenery is amazing, and wandering isn't nearly as painful as it was from the little I experienced in Oblivion (which unfortunately killed my hard drive when I was just about to start playing through it properly). All of the player races look great except for the wood elves IMO.

Dynamithix 12-05-2011 10:49 AM

I started a new game today, I made a female redguard-archer-assassin. This should be interesting. On my main, I'm level 49 now, a few skills increased and I'll get the level 50 achievement, then I'll leave my main save for a while and start playing with the redguard character. Also, I didn't even know but apparently, you can get to level 81. That's the real max level, 50 is just a 'soft level cap'.

sligpatrol 12-06-2011 04:16 AM

its an alright game i think its more like fallout then the elder scrolls i still think that oblivion is better

Crashpunk 12-06-2011 04:51 PM

...

Do you have any idea how little sense that post was.

hedjeroo 12-07-2011 08:11 AM

Actually I think it made pretty good sense, but then, I put in the grammar myself as I was reading it.

It certainly has changed a good deal from Oblivion, but I'm not sure about the Fallout thing. Then, I never got chance to play either of those games too much, seeing as my PC died and my boyfriend's addicted to Skyrim himself. Dx

AlexFili 12-07-2011 08:28 AM

I liked Morrowind but loved Fallout 3. For me the quests are so much bolder and the interactions are much more varied. Heard a lot of disappointed comments about Obllivion. Might try Skyrim when it's cheap. You can be argonian right? :)

hedjeroo 12-10-2011 03:58 PM

Yes, Argonians are still available, and look as awesome as ever. But the human races look much better this time around too. I always thought they looked a bit weird in Oblivion, but then, it was an older game.

And yes, I imagine one of the complaints about Oblivion was related to the voices... This is what happens when you hire Patrick Stewart. =p

MeechMunchie 12-11-2011 06:06 AM

But Patrick Stewart was one of the few voices that wasn't shit.

Wings of Fire 12-11-2011 07:31 AM

The implication being they spent too much of their voice actor budget on someone who was in the game for five minutes.

hedjeroo 12-11-2011 07:56 AM

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The implication being they spent too much of their voice actor budget on someone who was in the game for five minutes.

This. I love Patrick Stewart as much as the next person, but considering what happened to the rest of the voices, he must have taken up LOTS of budgeting...

Not saying it wasn't worth it, but they could've at least recycled HIS voice clips throughout the game too. :(

MeechMunchie 12-11-2011 09:56 AM

On the other hand, Sean Bean.

sligpatrol 12-12-2011 02:12 AM

i found a good way to power lv your smithing

sligpatrol 12-12-2011 02:14 AM

plus that sneak glitch dont work no more after the patch if anyone knows anyother way plz send message thanks ;D

Mac Sirloin 12-12-2011 01:07 PM

well furst you talk to Brady in Fannyshire and then you get snek attakbility from thomas, thomas will relcatoe you to thomas. follow emmas intructions to thomas and then sneak attack for yu snek bons

Bullet Magnet 12-14-2011 04:55 PM


AlexFili 12-16-2011 05:30 AM

I'm doing a survey about the morality choices within games like Skyrim, Fallout and Mass Effect. If you could fill in a quick survey for my university report I'd be really grateful!

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/KCXGZHF

Wings of Fire 12-16-2011 08:26 AM

'Moral' choices in video games always make me laugh. It boils down to 'Be a dick/Don't be a dick'. Skyrim did it better than most, as both sides are presented fairly, but still.

I've only seen very very few games do morally ambiguous choices right.

Bullet Magnet 12-16-2011 09:30 AM

"Fairly" is an interesting term. Surely, both sides have been presented to me as equally dickish. Neither have sold themselves to me at all.

But only one tried to chop my head off while I couldn't fight back. For the crime of, so far as I can tell, being in the same prison cart as Ulfric Stormcloak. Which, as I reminded them while my head was lowered onto the block, was where they put me.

So there's a deal breaker right there.

Wings of Fire 12-16-2011 09:44 AM

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Surely, both sides have been presented to me as equally dickish.

That was kind of my point.

I also chose the Stormcloaks for the reason you did.

Bullet Magnet 12-16-2011 10:32 AM

I'm starting to have reservations about their racism.

"Lizard" is rapidly becoming my Berserk Button.

MeechMunchie 12-16-2011 02:46 PM

I liked question 3. Made me realise I usually play a closet psychopath, playing the hero but also stealing all your shit.

But question 4 is a bit weird - I agreed with all of those. Maybe make multiple answers possible, or change the question to 'Which one of these statements do you most agree with?'

Also, I rambled a hell of a lot in 5-7. I may have written most of your report for you. :p

EDIT: In fact, I may as well get my time's worth out of this by posting it here.

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5. In Bethesda Softworks games like Fallout 3 and Elder Scrolls Oblivion / Skyrim (New Vegas was developed by Obsidian Entertainment), the player is given many different ways to complete a quest. Do you feel that this gameplay mechanic works well in immersing the player within the game world?

Yes. Artificial limitations on the player, incidental or enforced, make the player more aware of the artificial nature of the game. By giving the player more paths to act naturally and play in a way that seems right to them, the contrast of intent and possible actions fades, and the distinction between the player and their representative in-game begins to blur.

That said, in games with completely freeform structure such as the Elder Scrolls (as opposed to more story-driven fare such as Dragon Age or the Witcher series), the sheer amount of options can push the player to act more extremely than they would in real life, just to see how far the boundaries of the game will bend. In this sense the game is less immersive in presenting an alternative reality, moving more into traditional 'fantasy-fulfillment' territory.

6. In games such as Spore or Black & White, the player is somewhat led along a particular alignment (good, neutral and bad). Do you feel that this is too cheesy and too limited in scope? Or do you feel that alignment alteration is a good starting point for major differences in the specialisation of game characters?

As I mentioned above, many players will always act extremely just because it brings them more entertainment from the game. These sorts of players tend to start open-ended games feeling slightly lost, wondering where the impressive content and experiences can be found.

These sorts of players (Call them 'Surfers', skimming across the calm to find the next exciting wave) will probably enjoy a morality system to give them a sense of direction and provide a lasting sense of meaning to their otherwise frequently ridiculous actions. They will also be the sort of players who will respond positively to unlocking new powers or changing appearance appropriate to their choices.

However, many also prefer to play as themselves, acting more naturally as it makes them feel more immersed in the game (Call them 'Swimmers', taking every stroke seriously and exploring the depths of the game). The issue for these people, and a flaw criticised by most gamers, is that neutrality is rarely rewarded by artificial morality systems.

Perhaps this is because neutrality could be considered its own reward. Whereas a 'Pure Good' attitude is often very difficult to keep to, and a 'Pure Evil' personality tends to make the game harder for the player, making NPCs too fearful to cooperate and usually attracting 'Good' factions in the world to try and destroy them, Neutrality makes the game somewhat easier as it gives players freedom to act how they want.

The 'Swimmer' view would probably be that whether the game is harder or easier is irrelevant, as the trouble and effort the player puts into following up their choices is as key to the immersive experience as the choices themselves.

What this ultimately means is that the people who care about limitations on who can access content (Surfers) are the people who are less likely to encounter those limitations. Conversely, the people who encounter the limitations (Swimmers) are those who are less concerned with individual scraps of content, more with the play experience as a whole.

This itself means that the common criticism that 'natural' players 'miss out' as they do not see the alignment-specific content may be more disputable than once thought. That said, most people find a balance between both play styles, so players being annoyed by the issue is still understandable.

7. Finally, in modern videogames, do you feel that the player should have more/less choice in how their actions affect the world? Should players be restricted to a particular alignment? Or should character alignment be easily changed, so that users can try out being good or bad whenever they like?

Removing such limitations as narrow dialogue trees, invisible walls and invincible NPCs will always make the artificiality of the game world less obvious, resulting in a more immersive experience for all players. I believe this is a fairly unanimous, uncontroversial view.

However, the nature of choice, the number of choices, the amount of options for each choice, how these choices affect the world, its treatment of the player, and how long these consequences remain relevant for... none of these have one single rule that can be applied to all games.

Scale: In sandbox like Spore, you can play an interstellar empire, so wiping out planets on a whim is considered an appropriate level of player impact. In a more focused, character-based game like Skyrim, blasting the entire nation of the face of Nirn would have somewhat more serious implications!

Non-Player-Induced Changes: In a freeform RPG like Oblivion, giving the player a large number of options is possible because Cyrodil itself remains constant. In Dragon Age II, the world is heaving and reshaping itself whether the player wants it to or not. Options must be tied to the main story, or keeping track of all the different influences and their effects would be impossible for both the writers and the player. When the story takes such a central role, keeping the player's choices clear and limited is arguably the only way to keep them satisfied with the apparent impact of each.

Prevalence of Story:
If we're talking about the merits and drawbacks of different levels of choice, then it's worth considering games with little, if any, player choice at all. For a linear, heavily story-based game, player freedom would kill momentum. Allowing a player to wander a game when there's only one place to go to continue the story is not usually considered a sensible option. Besides, careful guidance of the player, through events of the game world, can give the player an illusion of choice, which when done effectively is as satisfying and exciting as a genuine choice.

Portal 2 is little more that one long corridor, but we don't hold that against it because everything we're asked to do seems like a reasonable response to the extreme situations we are presented with. No-one asks 'Do you want to escape from Wheatley?', because there's only one sensible answer. Wheatley's connection to the Aperture mainframe is itself a forced action, and at the time at least, probably a bad one, but we allow it anyway because we care about experiencing the story than we do about writing it. So choice is not inherently a good thing, it really does depend on the game.

The question of how fixed alignment should be is another divisive question. Some people will want to play to fit their own style and appreciate the challenge, while others, as you say, will want to try all the game has to offer in one playthrough. I could attribute this respectively to Swimmers and Surfers again, but the problem here is that the changeability of a person's personality is itself part of their personality!

Some people in real life are more fixed in their views and morals, while some act more objectively and believe that all personal rules must have exceptions, changing their mind frequently as new information comes to light. These are sometimes explored in games as 'Lawful' and 'Chaotic' elements, but are rarely fully realised or implemented.

So the reason why I couldn't just put this down to Surfing and Swimming is that a 'Lawful Swimmer' would want a fixed alignment that fit their general attitude to life, a 'Chaotic Swimmer' would want the opposite, as a flexible alignment would suit their real life personality! Surfers would be similarly divided, since either approach would bring its own assets to gameplay, each more suiting to a certain attitude to games, be it a sense of purpose in a fixed alignment for 'Lawful Surfers' or a sense of freedom in a flexible one for 'Chaotic Surfers'.

None of these questions have easy answers. The newly-christened 'Surfing vs. Swimming' debate, whether video games are primarily tools for entertainment or escapism, is a debate that has raged since gaming's inception and will likely go on for decades. The more specific 'Chaotic vs. Lawful' alignment system debate is a relatively recent one, but will probably end up being just as interesting.

Final thought: Someone once commented thus: "There's enough realism in real life." Be you Surfer or Swimmer, you enjoy games because they allow you to do things that would be impossible in real life, or at least impossible to get away with. A realistic treatment of the player's choices is often less fun than a limited one.

AlexFili 12-17-2011 12:32 AM

Thanks for your opinions and responses. The survey is now closed. :)

Crashpunk 12-17-2011 06:28 AM

Anyone else hate the arrow in the knee meme?

Dynamithix 12-17-2011 06:29 AM

They got old so quick. I think I should change my signature already.

mr.odd 12-17-2011 05:29 PM

They we're never funny to begin with. I never got why people found it funny.

Phylum 12-17-2011 05:39 PM

I used to find it funny. Then I took an arrow in the knee.

Ugh.

mr.odd 12-17-2011 06:08 PM

Don't make me Fus Ro Da you off the mountain.

Dynamithix 12-18-2011 01:42 AM

I found Sheogorath's quotes pretty funny in the game. Not because of what he said, but how he said it.

"Emperor... PELAAAGIUS! THE THIRD!"

Nate 12-18-2011 01:54 AM

Mr. Bungle, if you're reading this... are you aware that you reported Phylum's post instead of posrepping it? :D



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I used to find it funny. Then I took an arrow in the knee.

Ugh.


Phylum 12-18-2011 02:24 AM

Don't be so sure he meant to +rep it. It's a pretty shit joke.

Scraby 12-18-2011 02:50 AM

oh the arrow knee joke .....

http://memegenerator.net/cache/insta...6/12386497.jpg

Nate 12-18-2011 03:54 AM

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Don't be so sure he meant to +rep it. It's a pretty shit joke.

His comment was 'haha'. Unless he really wanted me and T-Nex to know what he thought, it seems unlikely that reporting was what he had in mind.

BoneyHead95 12-18-2011 04:10 AM

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Anyone else hate the arrow in the knee meme?

YES! I HATE IT! I don't find it funny! And when I found the guy who says it in the game. I going to kill him. :D

Dynamithix 12-18-2011 04:32 AM

So you found a normal guard in the game? Good job.

Crashpunk 12-18-2011 08:54 AM

Doesn't every guard say it?

mr.odd 12-18-2011 01:34 PM

I found a T-shirt of it.