Maybe I am, maybe I'm not. Guess we'll find out sooner or later.

I guess you probably didn't take into account the fact that I took into account the fact that Atheists might not want to be part of an afterlife they've spent their lives denying. That the "WRONG" hanging over their heads might make the experience less enjoyable or whateverthefuck.

But hey, feel free to be pissy because I don't think Atheists should automatically be denied access to something that the majority of human beings believe in that basically gives them a technical free ticket post-death.

Yea. I see what you're trying to do now.

But I don't want to live on a 747!

Reading that back it looks angrier than it was meant to be. But you know, any afterlife makes actual life utterly worthless, being eternal (according to everyone's ideas, anyway. There seems to be no good reason to presume details like these). So being wrong for a few decades at the beginning doesn't make any difference, particularly when we all have a lifetime's practice being wrong anyway. For scientists and sceptics, being wrong is awesome anyway.

And frankly, having been wrong is the least of anyone's troubles at that point.

I guess you must have about zero foresight.

I personally don't like the sound of an eternal afterlife - it'd get boring eventually.

Perhaps, that sounds like a phallusy to me.

It was just the "What kind of morons..." bit. I edited my response to be slightly more appropriate.

I really don't mean it in a negative way, and I think it's a lack of understanding on just how Atheists think about this kind of stuff that makes my point seem kind of silly.

Ahh but Mr. Hunter, the afterlife is awesome since things such as unhappiness and boredom are removed. I see it as billions of years of happiness, exploration, devout worship, love and fundamental intelligence/ enlightenment. It might not be your cup of tea but I'd rather take from Peter 3:15-17 than any other way if I could. This life is practice and test for whether I'm worthy or ready for the next.

If there's no boredom or unhappiness, doesn't that devalue actual bliss and happiness?
You can't explore for eternity.
If you become enlightened, what's left to do?
Does billions of years of worship sound like happiness to you?

And personally, I like to think that this is the only life we get; it encourages you to make the most of it. If this is a practice life, why even bother?

Your stupidity, racism and all around ignorance single you out as a perfect candidate for eternal bliss.

He got you, cunt.

Did he? I'm not racist in a non-religous manner, perhaps I am a bit xenophobic in that I don't have much toleration for non-abrahamic religions but then, I don't really express this to friends who would take offence.

My ignorance...well fair enough, perhaps I am ignorant but then, ignorant of what exactly? I'm happy for you to explain that to me. And I like to think I'm not stupid without sounding big headed.

@Oddhunter - yes, if God has saved me from death then I would repay this with praise and worship, a fair trade really. Obviously you cannot understand my perspective but then...few heathens can. XD

Yeah. I don't care. I just enjoy watching you and WoF troll each other.

I like to think of it not as trolling but as a carefully cultivated equilibrium that sometimes veers off towards one side but is quickly returned by the others comment. It's how we roll.

You did not expect that.

Okay. I enjoy watching WoF troll you.

You rigid schlong!

That doesn't sound very carefully cultivated.

Also, Religion is not race people.

Well that was unexpected, oh an I cultivate equilibrium, yeh, in little tins, got seesaws on the label. Yeh.

Not expressing your intolerance doesn't make you a tolerant person. I thought God was all about love and peace, anyway?

God doesn't save anyone from death. I think you mean "oblivion".
And why does God need to be eternally worshipped by everyone in the afterlife? It doesn't serve a purpose, constant worship for an eternity doesn't sound fun, and no it's not a fair trade. It just makes God seem arrogant.

And calling people heathens doesn't exactly do much for your argument.

Hmm, well I think he is but then again, you need to read the Old Testament what with the flooding and the burning and the taking of Jerusalem.

And God does save people from death, he brings the dead back to life for eternity, I suppose he needs to be worshipped by everyone because he created everyone however you believe in creation and therefore he deserves no less. God isn't exactly arrogant, perhaps jealous, yes in fact jealous, as it is written in Exodus 20:4-5 but then so is every human, when God is jealous he is zealous however, in protecting what he loves, which is us, and by turning away from him you tread down a path or ruin and immorality.

The whole heathen thing, was a joke hence the post-modifier XD...I don't think I've ever sounded more preachy but I assure you, I am not trying to preach to you to change your ways or anything, I merely pointing things out, I hope you don't take my argument the wrong way Oddhunter.

Well thanks for clearing all tht up for us, we wondered. <.<

Tl;dr? Or just a spout of rubbish?

I couldn't be bothered to say anything intelligent. But gave way to my dickheadery and just had to say something.

God loves us all, right? If he loves us all then why does he not allow everyone in Heaven. God is all knowing? If he was all knowing, shouldn't he have known what would unfold by giving us free will?

To be honest, I don't believe in God but if he does exist, show me where he is so I can punch him in the face for being such a selfish and needy cunt.

He did know what would unfold. Having freedom is a greater good than mindless obedience.

I think giving us freedom was his greatest good and his greatest intelligence, it proves this, God is all knowing but he rarely meddles in our lives. If you do something stupid it's your own fucking fault. People say to me, how can you believe in a God that allows starvation in Africa, I simply reply, ask people like McGarvey not me, not God.

So... him giving us free will gave us the opportunity to cause misery? I don't see how that isn't his fault seeing as he knew that this would happen.

Ironic though, we have free will yet our lives our already written in stone.

You haven't heard?

http://www.godhatesfags.com/

Can I bring the paradox of the stone into this discussion?

You can but then I will quote C.S. Lewis: "When talking about omnipotence, referencing "a rock so heavy that God cannot lift it" is nonsense just as much as referencing "a square circle." So asking "Can God create a rock so heavy that even he cannot lift it?" is just as much nonsense as asking "Can God draw a square circle?" Therefore the question (and therefore the perceived paradox) is meaningless. Nonsense does not suddenly acquire sense and meaning with the addition of the two words, "God can" before it."

Better Socrates dissatisfied than a pig satisfied.

Having free will is better than any other kind of happiness because it's the opportunity to create our own happiness.

The more we learn about the brain, the less free will seems to be applicable. At least not in the sense we all think of. My personal suspicion is that there is free will but we are completely wrong about what that entails.

I've lost the reference now, it was probably a book in a shop I hadn't bought, but it was about fellow with a vested ideological interest in scientifically proving free will, so he delved deep into neurology. Naturally, he was horrified to discover that on the nervous level, the brain is gearing up and well into performing an action quite a bit of time in advance of the owner experiencing the actual decision to perform that action in the first place.

Our desire to act appears to lag behind the act itself.

You were destined to write that.

That's really interesting actually, do you mean our subconsciousness directs us to perform an act before we actually want to do it?

Confirmed as something I learnt last year.

But what influences the subconcious to direct us to perform those acts?

Jesus.

Hur hur

Prehaps free will exists in out ability to choose whether or not to indulge in such desires. Even if the desires themselves are beyond our control.

I now claim my "That's deep shit" scout badge.