Unfortunately, Pat, that isn't for you to decide.

Islam is Not a Religion of Pacifists
Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, 1942

"Islam’s jihad is a struggle against idolatry, sexual deviation, plunder, repression, and cruelty. The war waged by [non-Islamic] conquerors, however, aims at promoting lust and animal pleasures. They care not if whole countries are wiped out and many families left homeless. But those who study jihad will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world. All the countries conquered by Islam or to be conquered in the future will be marked for everlasting salvation. For they shall live under [God’s law]. ...

Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does that mean that Muslim should sit back until they are devoured by [the unbelievers]? Islam says: Kill the [the non-Muslims], put them to the sword and scatter [their armies]. Does this mean sitting back until [non-Muslims] overcome us? Islam says: Kill in the service of Allah those who may want to kill you! Does this mean that we should surrender [to the enemy]? Islam says: Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to paradise, which can be opened only for holy warriors!

There are hundreds of other [Koranic] psalms and hadiths [sayings of the prophet] urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all that mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim."

Too bad Khomeini isn't really a person who can talk for his entire religion.

Yeah, the Ayatollah of all of Shia Islam is really unauthoratative. What kind of cheap hack studies the Qur'an all his life, rises through the ranks of the clergy, becomes one of the most respected figures in modern Islam, and meets with world leaders? What a nobody, much less notable than Tariq Ramadan or Wafa Sultan.

By which I assume you mean "senior Shia Muslim cleric, Islamic philosopher, marja (religious authority)... and Supreme Leader of Iran" (from Wikipedia). There is no such position as "Ayatollah of all of Shia Islam"; certain respected scholars reach the status of Marja/Grand Ayatollah but there is no single religious over-leader. And the Marjas do not even have to agree on any issue.

Stop the presses omg. Pat, you know why you are wrong about everything here? You have no life experience at all. You're 14 fucking years old!!! I just checked your profile, I want to know who I'm debating with. There is no way in hell I'm going to debate religion, let alone Islam, with a 14 year old.

You need a lot more life experience to be able to judge other people kid, learn to know yourself before starting to judge others. Especialy religions.

Translation: I've ran out of legitimate arguments and must resort to ridiculous and irrelevant ad hominems.

Dude I can give you tens of thousands of arguments and we could be here arguing for the rest of my natural life and I'd probably win. Point is that I'm not gonna waste any more of my time on a 14 year old who probably just got into highschool and doesn't know jack shit about the world.

Your vision of the world is what you hear from your friends and family and at the age of 14 you do not have an own opinion about politics and religion. You can pretend you do, but you don't, it's that simple. I'm sure plenty of people will agree with me on that.
I'm not saying your stupid (well... maybe a little) but you don't have a clue about how the world works yet. Believe me I've been there, we all have been. 14 years old, think your old enough to own god and satan both as your personal house keepers because you are so fucking informed about everything there is to know.
You get your opinion from websites, like any 14 year old does. I can point a 14 year old down the street to a site that says having sex cures cancer and he'll believe it no problem.

Get some more life experience before you think you know it all, because you seriously don't. And when you are 19 and you and me are both still around here you can tell everyone here your sorry about being such an all knowing prick 5 years ago. Untill then, don't tell people who have been living almost twice as long as you have that they are wrong about everything, it can piss people off pretty fast.

Then what, oh mighty Lord of All Creation, do you want me to believe?

Will you both STFU already? I'm sick you two bitch fighting over Islam, Jesus, e-penises, or whatever. You're both as bad as eachother and don't deny it.

Patrick, you hardly know any Islamics in real life, and have no right to group them all as Jihad-crazy terrorists. I know afew, and they hate what the extremests are doing to the reputation of Islam. It's like how some Americans are ruining the reputation of Christianity. All the sites you're getting your info from are just trying to wind you up and make you hate Islam even more. So get your head out of where the sun don't shine, and just learn to be tolerent of Islam, as they're not all bad people.

Havoc, I know Patrick's annoying, but is there really a need to insult EVERYONE who's religious? Your posts prove the stereotype that athiests have overinflated egos and love the smell of their own farts. I mean what's wrong with having a religion? Would it be right of me to come to your house and burn you for being a furry? It wouldn't really because you chose to live that way, as Christians have chosen to follow Christianity. You also need to learn to be tolerant of other people and not to group everyone.

Tolerant of a religion that ordanes child rape, mandates dividing the world into Islamic and non-Islamic, killing, converting or dhimming all unbelievers and is opposed to human freedom and democracy? I proudly hate Islam. Anyone who says it is a religion of peace is a fool at best and a deceiver at worst. I do not hate Muslims. I HAVE READ THE BLOODY QUR'AN! I HAVE READ THE BLOODY BIBLE! THEY ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO EQUIVALENT!

Sorry for that rant, but your asking to tolerate that cult set me off.

Have you even read the first half of the Bible? The one with the sacrifices and bloodshed and damnation of non-believers all in the name of God? Just because a book says people did some bad stuff then, it doesn't mean that people who follow it don't have common sense. Like most other religious people, most Muslims do have common sense and don't practice child molestation or public burning of infidels or whatever, since they know better.

Your blind hatred of something you hardly know anything about is just shocking. Islam is not a cult, as it actually has a long and detailed history unlike religious groups that have popped up over the last few years or so. Why if it wasn't for Muslims bringing over medicines to Medieval England, you probably wouldn't even exist.

I don't think even the Time Lords have visited your timeline. YES, I've read the OT. You go "Most Muslims blah blah blah blah" without providing evidence. In any case, my beef is with Islamics, not Muslims.

Fucking Hypocrite...

Christianity condones child abuse (priests, nuff said), and there are plenty of things in the bible that say other religions should be wiped away and blablabla. Go read it AGAIN. God himself flooded the damn planet, doesn't that say enough?

And are you kidding me? Without providing evidence? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!!!

Yeah, but God put up a rainbow to promise he'd never flood the earth again. I think both religions can be good, I don't believe in hating gay people, if there's something in my religion I find wrong, I just keep out of it. Since both religions worship God, I don't see why they can't get along or something....Ah well, I can't debate to save my life.

Your idea of debate seems to be "Whoever says fuck and types in caps and uses exclamation marks the most is right." It's actually far more adolescent then my style.

Christianity does not condone child abuse.
"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea"
Matthew 18:6, KJV (using that, as even the most hardline folks will accept it)
The fricking Deity of Christianity said it would be better to drown than offend a kid. The Vatican condemns child abuse as well, in fact, no Christian denomination endorses paedophilia, or even ephebophilia. Muhammad married and raped a 9 year old girl, and Khomeini said some really, REALLY sick shit (in fact, too sick for me to even quote. Just follow my sig and scroll down to the quote) about raping infants.

Both religions say bad things, I doubt there is any Islamy people today who actually support child abuse or other really screwy things in their religion I do not know of. Until you actually quote something from the present about Islamic people child abusing, I reckon that Q'aran quote aboout child abuse is pretty useless. Me and a friend have a different opinion on gay people, why can't both of you agree to disagree?

Havoc is in NO POSITION to tell anyone that they're stupid. No one.

Pat is evidently intelligent, and can't be said to simply go along with any particular flow. Yes yes, he does willingly swallow a great number of heavily biased sources and use them as an actual argument, but he still has a head on his shoulders.

Besides, I once got stabbed between the shoulder blades in a pub brawl, I am quite clearly far more advanced as a human being and thus my debate must be taken far more seriously than anybody else's.

And now he just gave a random Doctor Who reference, I think I may love him.

Mhmm, no, I still loathe him.

Wanna bet?

Christianity vs Islam
Red vs Blue
Cake vs Pie

... will it ever end?

Way off-topic: Hey PV do you believe in Lilith? The girl God created before Eve? I believe it's written in Genesis.

http://www.homa.org/Details.asp?View...CID=2083225445
Read the 2nd quote. It's too sick to quote.

@Venks: What the hell are you talkin bout, Willis?

@MF: Correct. I refuse to follow the typical Party Line of my age group, which is "JORGE BUSH IS STOOPID AND HITLUR! AMERICUh SUX! CHANEY IZ TEH ANTICHRIST! ISLURM IS A RERLIGIORN OF PESS HIJAQUED BI A TINY MANIRITAH OF EXTREMISHTS! EVEN IF ITZ NUT, ITZ NO BETTER OR WURS THAN CHRISTUINTY!"
Wait, that's HAVOC's line. Havoc and me seem to have switched ages.

I'm talking about Lilith but she isn't important.
Raptor Jesus is important. Have you let him into your heart?
He went extinct for your sins you know.
Raptor Christianity pwns Christianity.

Love Raptor Jesus or die.
Believe in Lord Raptor Jesus and thou shall be saved.
True happiness can only be found by eating other people.

The only people I see who are actually posting intelligently are Zozo, Mutual, and afew others who can see both sides of the arguement and not stoop to levels of "UR GOD IZ FAK" or "ISLAM IZ TEH EVULZ". Everyone else is either an athiest with a swollen ego and e-penis (havoc), a religious nutcase who wants to burn Islamics at the stake (Pat), or are just jumping in for no actual constructive reason and making references to old internet fads (Venks).

I'm an atheist! *jumps up and down with hand raised*
I tried constructive stuff but that goes nowhere. So instead I'm trying to enlighten everyone with Raptor Christianity. I need to save their souls.

To anyone who assumes my dislike of Islam is influenced by my religion, that is incorrect. Islam is incompatible with atheist, Buddhist, Hindu or any other values. Even Satanism has better values than Islam.

By the way, you forgot that the TRUE God is made of spaghetti and meatballs.

I'm not talking about God I'm talking about his son Raptor Jesus.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...28/extinct.jpg

Nah, she's not mentioned in Genesis at all. She's a much later amalgam of many different legends. See this.

See, the problem is that nothing you have ever said (not to mention your avoidance of my last post) suggests to me that this is close to the truth. In other words: You fail. On many levels. At life.

And if you ever truly want to join the priesthood, I recommend a steady process of mental maturation; the Church has ways of weeding out people like you. Frankly, in my opinion you're just as evil as Khomeini.

Well, you've got me there. Even so, however, Khomeini is a highly respected religious leader among Muslims, and all schools of Islamic jurispredence agree on expansionistic Jihad (even the Sufis)

And J*sus H. Christ on a hot cross bun, I'm as evil as Khomeini? Yeah, I advocate raping infants and murdering people for offending a fictional character called Allah. You are an idiot if you think not adhering to the "Islam is no better or worse than Christianity" PC Kool Aid is equivalent to advocating screwing babies.

I don't know about screwing children but Raptor Jesus has a special place in his stomach.. I mean heart for children.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...jesusteeth.jpg

You advocate discrimination and hate against 900 million people on this planet based on beliefs shared by only a small percentage of them. Sounds pretty evil to me.