^ This man speaks the truth...except the part about me being dumb. Of course.

The reason people can be apathetic to such beauty is because it's not very accessible. If one cannot be reminded of the good in the world on a regular basis, then the bad of the world will take over.

People spend their entire lives without being able to see how gorgeous the world can be. More cynical people see such beauty and only get depressed knowing that every day, more of it is destroyed. Being able to empathize with greatness isn't as easy as just knowing it exists, some people need to see it to truly appreciate it. I'm one of them frankly. Knowing the beach exists isn't as fulfilling as visiting it.

I guess it depends on the attitude you approach. For example, in my point of view sure there are still the big buck companies or whatever destroying or polluting nature, but I also think that the awareness and efforts of people fighting back that destruction is still growing. Sure, I can say offhand right now it's not near enough to actually stop the destruction, but one day I can see a balance, and ultimately an overturn. This is worded real weird, hope I explained it well enough.

As for actually having to see it for yourself, I have had the privilege of being next to the beach my whole life. It's something I took for granted until I decided to actually learn about what goes on in the ocean, so I think it's the opposite for me? I can understand where you're coming from though.

By then how much of the Amazon rainforest will still remain though?

I am religious so I do belive in an afterlife, however it does seem quite evident that the brain is responsible for thought and in essence us, and I know that just about every religion sais our brain has nothing to do with who we are that it is our soul, but if that is the case than I can't understand how brain damage can impeed someones ability to think, according to my religios beliefs we get resserected into our old bodies, and if our brains are who we are as I belive to be so than it makes sense to reserect our bodies, this would mean that according to my beliefs when you die you go to nothingness untill judgement day when your resserected, at which time you would go to heaven or hell depending on your lifestyle.

which would also mean that all out of body experiences are either illusions of the mind or deceptions

But you are basing your assumptions purely on your own ideas not anything to do with religion. The New Testament specifically states that you leave the flesh and your soul goes on to Heaven. What the soul actually is we do not know but perhaps it's an amalgamation of conciousness loosely compacted into a human like form?

That is meaningless. I'll adapt it.

"What Lance Armstrong actually is we do not know but perhaps it's an amalgamation of Tour de France victories loosely compacted into a human like form?"

Don't try to consolidate poorly constructed religious concepts with modern science, it doesn't work. We already have a word for the concept of reified conciousness: soul. What you're doing is stating exactly the same concept in the words of an alternative literary genre. That is distressing effective for the New Age crowd, but it won't work with us.

Hang on, I was just predicting what the soul might be, Lance Armstrong is a definable, visible, human being, the human soul is not, in that people aren't certain of what it is, even its existence.

You've missed the point, but I see your criticism. The point is the reifying of a process into something distinct form the physical entity that undergoes that process. That some people actually believe that that something exists is irrelevant, and very silly.

"What karma actually is we do not know but perhaps it's an amalgamation of our sense of justice loosely compacted into a human like form?"

"What Santa Claus actually is we do not know but perhaps it's an amalgamation of generosity loosely compacted into a human like form?"

"What Jack Fost actually is we do not know but perhaps it's an amalgamation of general winter discomfort loosely compacted into a human like form?"

"What the Grim Reaper actually is we do not know but perhaps it's an amalgamation of the act of dying loosely compacted into a human like form?"

"What original sin actually is we do not know but perhaps it's an amalgamation of catholic guilt loosely compacted into a human like form?"

"What god actually is we do not know but perhaps it's an amalgamation of awe before the universe loosely compacted into a human like form?"

"What FSM actually is we do not know but perhaps it's an amalgamation of tastiness loosely compacted into a pasta like form?

OK I understand what you mean now.

I base my assumptions purely on my own Ideas simply because it is my Ideas that I belive, and the bible may conflict with some of my Ideas but I don't necissarily think the bible is 100% correct, every human is imperfect, so it is completely possable that at some point someone misinterpreted what god was trying to communicate to them or someone else missinterpreted it when the knowledge was being passed on or translated.

You're going to hell.

Like 70% of the Old Testament right? Let us rape women so we can marry them and such tot.

I like the bit where the heroes allowed their daughters to be raped by horny townsfolk rather than let them have their angelic guests.

Yeh.

Judaism puts a high priority on hospitality.

The ancient world, however, didn't put such a high value on daughters.

Women in general, where more possessions than anything, right up until the Romans I believe. Around the 0 AD mark.

Uh

Women were possessions right until the middle of the nineteenth century and only became citizens in full capacity after 1918.

Depends which society/civilisation, but true for the most part.

Also there was no year 0.

of course there was i mean we didn't just go from year -1 to 1 you have to go to 0 first come on now this is basic stuff

Yeah learn your math BM. The year 0 was a great year.

Wikipedia people.

It's not hard.

Wait hang on is that calender system Gregorian though? I think going from 1 BC to 1 AD is Julian.

EDIT: Aha, I think you're right.

And that, people, is why the new millennium started on January 1st, 2001, and not the previous year.

I've been carrying that around for ten fucking years.

Aren't you clever.

for the record, i was being sarcastic. just like to clear that up.

You're only buying time for your dastardly plan to make 0 an actual year.

I read an interesting book about death last night, it's a philosophical account about possible types of afterlife's. They aren't religious but rather theological and instead of insisting you believe in these created Heaven's and Hell's, they question how you think about life and make you more appreciative of things.

Like this one Heaven was mostly like old life, it was a nice suburb and everyone was mostly happy, food was cheap and pay was good. But everyone who was there new they were actually in Hell. Because it turned out that over the millennia, God got bored with perfection and grew envious of other people living full happy lives albeit with more substance than his. So Heaven became Hell because only the people he truly liked were spared life for eternity and instead were allowed to rot. All sinners went to Heaven.

Remarkable!

There is no afterlife.

You rot in a hole.

Heaven and Hell are more or less the same thing. An eternity of anything is hell, be it pleasure or pain.

I can understand your viewpoint. I can see it as being boring but then, I expect Heaven is pretty big so...maybe it'd be fun to go exploring.

And you Dixanadu, need to stop being so arrogant. The cosmos are far to big for us to dismiss the existence of an omnipotent being. Then again that isn't to say that some people aren't too clever for a shadowy religion thousands of years old. God has always rewarded the people that have faith without having to see, but I think man is too weak now for everyone to go by old texts.

Afterlife is unlikely simply because the idea of afterlife was brought up by religion, and religion is man-made.

Honestly, I believe Jesus Christ did exist. I don't believe he was a wizard or whatever. Just some guy with some groovy ideas before someone idolised him and put a bunch of shit in the Bible and made him out to be some super hero.

Oh, and he wasn't white, either.

STM, you're so fuckin strange.
Sometimes you say things that make logical sense, and then back it up with some shit about God. Maybe you should challenge yourself to stop half-way, and then go back and read how much more sense your posts make as a result.

And Dix, of course Jesus existed. He was comparable to modern day cult leaders. And just like we think modern messiahs are fruitcakes, alot of people felt that way about Jesus too. It was through his epic martyrdom that his musings became more than just ideological ranting. One little diddy you might find interesting is the Gospel of Judas, which details how Jesus basically planned his martyrdom because he felt like it would be the only way to immortalize his teachings. That Judas, who is often painted as a villain and a betrayer, was actually Jesus's only truly loyal follower, and Jesus basically commanded him to sell him out to the Romans.

Perhaps you're not wrong, but I can't phase out God in a debate about death when to me it is he who created death. Maybe I will try your half way point idea though. ;)

show me proof that is not the bible

Wiki him. The "bible" as you know it is a very small part of his history. Countless people in the field have taken a very objective, non-religious approach to researching him.

Show me proof that yo mama exists!!

uh.. nvm.

Anyway I think afterlife would not be so hell'ish if souls could actually choose to 'rest'... Think of it like sleeping but for eternity. I wouldn't mind that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

A very famous Jewish writer who isn't important enough for me to remember his name...wrote about his death from Rome.

I picture heaven as one of those places where after the first like... thousand years, you'd get incredibly bored and just sleep 18 hours a day. You'd wake up for a little bit, realize how bored you are, and go back to sleep. Heaven is full of countless generations of sleeping people.

Plus, if you have reached heaven, your life is over... in more than way. For many, reaching heaven is the penultimate goal, and life as they know it is but a proving ground. So once you get there, you'd be so utterly content with your situation, that you would never bother doing anything every again. Complete and utter contentment means the end of personality, of action, of everything that defines a person. We exist to improve ourselves, to overcome obstacles in every day life, and work towards higher goals. If there are no problems, no obstacles, no goals, then there is literally nothing.

And Oddhunter, you're right. The texts documenting Jesus and his deeds are what encompasses the bible today (well, some of them), but not all of the individual components were wholly religious or biased, though their subjectivity is still highly debatable.