You're suggesting that rules against adultery don't come under the category of 'Be good to other people'?


In any case, anything I say about the bible is going to come from a very different perspective than what Splat says. Jewish tradition points out that the bible cannot be understood entirely literally; it needs the context of the talmud to make sense. Any issue you might have with Leviticus has been discussed and explained a millenia and a half ago in the Talmud's pages.

Better than the alternative.
The old testament God was a real asshole.

I saw your original post you little turd. Nobody gets away from me. NOBODY.

I recanted as I'm moving this thread away from it's original topic, and I don't wanna get into anymore pissing contests.

I saw it too.

I'm kinda disappointed, as there would have been more fireworks and fun if the original had stayed.

Personally, I think it's all bullshit. However, since we are talking about religion, we can only put it in the context of how each one views their religious texts. In a discussion about Christianity, I'm honestly not all that interested in what the Jewish take is. Not that I'm not interested in the Jewish take. I am. But it really has nothing to do with the conversation. Christians do not temper their text with the Talmud, and they believe that the King James version is the final, definitive word of God. So, when in a discussion with these people about their beliefs, I can only discuss their beliefs.

Except that Christians don't follow Old Testament law* any more, due to Grace and Jesus' new covenant and all that other stuff that Splat will be able to explain better than I can.


Now, if someone can explain why I'm defending Christianity; that will be quite an acheivement.




*Except where politically convenient.

Christianity once helped a person you are friends with get over their issues?

Christianity inspired something you enjoy?

Jesus rescued your cat when it got stuck up a tree?

But does evil truly exist?

What is truth?

Alcar...

But does it really?

Will it blend?

Evil isn't a substance, it's a mind-state. Really, the argument of 'Does evil exist?' comes down in the end to: "Depends what you mean by evil."
Define evil and then you can begin to answer the questions.
On another forum, we once discussed whether the chicken or the egg came first. I pointed out that it depends on what you mean by "chicken egg". If you mean an egg that was laid by a chicken, the chicken came first; and if you mean an egg from which hatches a chicken, then the egg came first.
This seems a lot simpler, but it's not really.


~please give me a clear definition of evil, its causes and its effects.
Enchilado

If you'll look earlier, OANST clearly said we're talking about evils which have been socially unacceptable in any period.

As for the chicken and the egg, what came first was the proto-chicken that was just advanced enough for its offspring to have a defensive shell whilst growing.

Okay. Are we talking about an actual existing evil, or a state of mind, a disease or what?


~I think you misunderstood what I was talking about...
Enchilado

~I think he understood what you were talking about better than you do...
Nate

No! Never! No... no, I always understand what I'm talking about.


~otherwise the dithering of the marginal fractions would be congested within unreason!
Enchilado

You'd make a good sophist.

The only time that they start talking about Jesus' new covenant (which isn't mentioned in the bible. Jesus never states that he is changing the rules) is when they realize that they don't have any good answers to questions about the Old Testament. It's a covenant of convenience.

What I'm getting at is the fact they have conflicting opinions about their own religion. They believe that you have to take everything literally, except when it isn't convenient.

Mega-ultra-chicken?
No, shhh!
He is legend.

Mega-Ultra-Chicken? Aren't they those lumpy things you get at KFC?


~gee... and they're the ancestors of all other chickens today!
Enchilado

I'm christian, all we go by is the entire bible, and
know that if your saved, you'll go to heaven with eternal life.
And yeah, evil couldn't exist without good and vice versa.
You really shouldn't be talking lowly about christians, unless
you know anything about them.
I for one, where we're from doesn't believe a certain way, only
that there is a Jesus, and God and simply follow the path of God, not caring
what version of the bible their reading from.

i don't think we were ever talking lowly of Christians on this thread. i wasn't at least.

I didn't mean you, just people saying
that we go by certain means. The only thing "I" go by
is that I'm saved (believe in God) the bible just lets
you know about some things you should do to be more holy
and how be to a better person, anyone can turn to god because
he never turns his back on you, no matter what you do.
If you ask for it, God will forgive you for any crime you commit.
In my opinion the bible comes in many forms, but God only comes in one.

So it's easy to be a christian for you then... You can just pick and choose what you want, and do any crime you want(Murder, rape, stealing) and then ask God for forgiveness.

Honestly if people go by that logic, I can see a whole lot more evil coming from the bible than good.

But does evil really exist?

Not on a broader scale you poop!! But you know what I mean >_< *shakes fist*

Does evil exist?
It is a subjective concept, so technically no.
That is my thought on the matter. Good day.

Thx 4 ur .02

So are you saying that the only thing you need to do to be a good Christian is to believe in God?

Yes Nate, Christians are stupid like that, you should really know that by now.

And yes, evil does exist and it spawned Paris Hilton.

Havoc, was I asking you? Try to be a little less predictable in the future.


As for why I asked the question, I like to push people in to justifying their beliefs, so they're not just doing stuff because daddy said so. Like Nepharski, who had his mind opened by us and became much more accepting of all around him.

My experience is that 'doing stuff because daddy said so' is the foundation every single religion is built upon. Very few healthy adults will switch to being religious at the first ever glance on a bible. Most, if not all religious people in the world are religious because they have been taught to believe in something without question.

However, should you ever invent a way to undo years of brainwashing, please let me know and I will support your cause.

I agree. However, I also know quite a few intelligent, religious people who have questioned their religion but managed to maintain their faith. I also know an very large number of people who grew up in totally unreligious households and have now become religious as an adult.

The latter group inluds Obama, actually. However, I suspect he just adopted his faith as a means to rise in the political ranks, which I don't blame him for. Like an atheist could ever get elected as president in these times.

Hey, I don't use American currency.

Yeah. I think that the majority of the Democratic party are closet atheists.

Yeah, Obama was pushing it already by being black. He wouldn't have made it if he was also a godless heathen.

Previously posted by Havoc. "Yes Nate, Christians are stupid like that, you should really know that by now."
Lololol, all christian's are stupid, and the thought of
following in such a ignorant religion, shows how stupid a person is?

As a follow up, Yes, all atheist's are "That" ignorant.
and they'll do or say anything they can to insult us with common sense, I'm finished with this little argument. i suggest, you say nothing more to me pending on this issue.
And as a last word, to reply to Havoc's little private message, we christian's follow a guild line called tolerance of those that try to shoot down anything said by us.

Judging by the way you use the word 'little' a lot, I'd say you're trying to show how 'big' you are.

I didn't even realise there was an argument. If there was, we were finished with it ages ago.


I'm an atheist, but I don't have anything against you or any other Christian I've ever met. Not personally. I don't have anything against your beliefs either (as such). I'm respectful of what people believe in (and so should you be), and I also know that not all Christians are the same. Therefore you should know that not all atheists are, either.
You say we'll do or say anything we can to insult you with common sense. You're wrong. Some might, but I won't.

And I'm not sure that Havoc was being entirely serious.