No i'm leaving solo artist out of it because i hate solo artist, be it male or female that's why i wanna keep em out, and yes i do think the female solo artist is the better solo artist.

I don't think you quite understand what I'm getting at here.

You believe that what the majority thinks is necessarily true, right? After all, you tried to use the fact that the majority of people prefer male musicians to try and proove that they are better, right?

But then, I pointed out that most of what reaches the top of the charts is not only incredibly bad, but also often made by women. So it's nothing to do with "That particular chart". I am talking about the Singles Chart, IE the one that contains every single released, right? Now can you honestly say that you think that Westlife are absolutely better than Slipknot, simply because they are more popular? [I see little difference in quality, so you know, but I'm interested to know what you think here, since you would be contradicting yourself whichever way you turn...]

Danny you have msn, why did'nt you tell me this earlier i'll add you and we can talk about this topic on msn instead of jus increasing out posts here.

Ok with that whole westlife is abosolutely better than Slipknot thing is not true at all, see westlife may be more popular and they only reason they are more popular is because Slipknot have never ever been on the radio and i mean that not once! the have only been on mtv were they play a rather bad song "left behind" , also are you accusing statistics of lieing and cheating? I think the are preciousit to the number, also we are still argueing about Male bands being better than female bands right, otherwise i'm complety lost.

1. By your logic Westlife is better than Slipknot because Westlife are more popular!

2. Not the statistics themselves, the people who use the statistics.
Case study:
Bush excluded Florida in the election. He manipulated statistics!

I never said westlife are better i said they are more popular, which does'nt make them better at all, unless the statistics were mearused threw out the entire music world.

So Danny, you think the majority of the world prefur female bands over male bands? I don't think you do you your self said you prefured male bands right? and so do i and so do a whole lot of other people, and since the majority of the people liek more male bands than female bands than yes i think that in it self is a statistic enough!, And you keep saying how about if they are wrong? Well then you would be to and so would i right? but we are not wrong unless you think the mojority of people that do like male bands better are insane, ( i found that unlikey).

Surfacing Even if you do post a poll it proves nothing. A poll is just what a lot of people think it doesn't make it a fact. Don't you get it that OPINIONS CAN'T be Turned into FACTS. If you take the orange example and post a poll about "Do you like the tast of oranges" and most people say They do you can't turn that into a fact because it's an OPINION! Do get it!?

But it can be turned into statistics which is a form of fact.

Well you were saying that male bands were better than girl bands because they are more popular.



It is a fact that Westlife are more popular than Slipknot. That has been proven by the singles charts and probably the album charts.
A band cannot be proven to be better than another band. It is subjective.

*gets out bone-saw and goes off to excise the part of Surfacing's brain that thinks opinion=fact*

But then, mushrooms are obviously far superior to tomatoes.

*singing* What about all of the... things that you said? What about all of the... ........ Huh? Oh, my view can be summed up in three words: What About Us? Now, really, people, the two genders are balanced. Females have better lower-body strength, while the males have better upper-body strength. See? They balance each other out.

*resumes singing* What about all of the... lies that you gave? .....

Really, Sylvia? I never knew that.. Interesting...

*sings*

560th post! Yay!

This is where we have our problem. Statistics are NOT facts, especially not when all they measure is Opinions...

Fact: Most people prefer male bands to female bands.

Opinion: Male bands are better than female bands.

Clear?

What makes you think that is a fact? That is just your own opinion, also don't you think the people that like male bands more think they are better aswell?

that fact was not a fact. You don't know that for sure because there are alot of people that I know prefer female singers. Especially guys because they like to drool over them like my brothers!:D

Yeah so? Why are you so worried about it?

I think it was Mark Twain who said that there are three types of untruths: Lies, damned lies, and statistics. ;)

"Most people prefer male bands to female bands" IS a fact, because surveys could prove it. They might prove it to be true, or they might prove it to be false, but either way, it is still a fact. "Male bands are better than female bands" is NOT a fact, because it could not be proven. All that could be proven is that most people prefer one to another.Yes, of course they would think that. But don't you see that whatever they think would also be an opinion? That's what I'm trying to say here: No matter how many people agree with a certain opinion, it is still an opinion, because it can't be proven.

And if it was proven would that change your mind? Why does it have to be proven for you to believe me? just cause it's not a fact? can't you take my word for it?

Hmmm, britney spears instead of the swinging utters? NSync over Prong?!?! I guess dan has a point with the singles chart analogy. just 'cause it is popular doesn't mean it's good! Also, let us not overemphasize this fact: Stats are the slippery bastard love children of facts, and opinions usually don't mean a whole hell of a lot. By the way, a fuzzily defined tyopic such as this one usually degenerates into something that was eluded to in a side comment. From sports to single charts, what a tangled web we weave when at first we try to argue a point that is all about someone's tastes.

You don't quite understand - it could not possibly be proven. Taste in music is entirely subjective, and cannot be proven objectively. It is ruled out by definition.

Statikk: It's the nature of the beast - Topics go Off-Topic. I prefer it that way, since it makes for more interesting debates...

Perhaps a contest? If they got in te same amount of female bands and male bands and the male bands won the award then would that satisfy? Kinda like a grammy for best gender for bands would that help?

I am intrigued. How do you plan to organise this so that the award isn't given out on the basis of anyone's opinions?

No no no! I'm saying hypathetically, i'm not planning to carry this out hell no.

But you personally do you think that male bands are better than female bands? Don't bring in your statistics just your own personal opnion will be just fine.

It was a rhetorical question. I was trying to point out to you that Awards are also due to certain people's opinion, and so can't be used to base your "facts" on...

I don't make the distinction. I like more male bands than female bands, yes, but I wouldn't put it exactly how you put it, since I also hate more male bands than female ones. The fact that I like more male bands is most likely simply a result of there being more male bands to like...

Ok tell me which 1 male band you like the most and 1 female band you like the most, and tell me which 1 you prefur more?

*sigh* Leon, you have totally missed the point of what I was saying...

Besides, my "favourite" band depends on what mood I am in. If I had to choose, I'd probably choose Portishead, who are a mixed band anyway...

Is'nt your point that my thoughts on male bands being better than female bands just an opnion? If that's not your point than i'm completly lost.