It's not a 'dislike' button you arrogant slob. Indicating you have a further history of misusing a site feature doesn't make you any less petty for using it as such. If you're going to deliberately misinterpret a post to be as offended (on behalf of another) as possible, fuck off. Post better in general before you start getting defensive for your crappy behavior.


Again, I'm not trying to demean anyone, but it was ridiculously convenient that this huge slice of sympathetic publicity came down on Jenner while s/he was facing manslaughter charges.

I know that the majority of people do not understand why trans people should be sympathized with (and I don't claim to comprehend what it's like to be trans), and please excuse me for going all Hollywood on this, but it's spin. Jenner is wealthy, attached to the valuable Kardashian brand and generally viewed well in the public eye. Vehicular manslaughter charges might mean less money for those brands he's attached to, so his publicist wrote up a 3 year plan to give him some sympathy.

It's absolutely not up to me to say who gets to be 'truly' trans or not, but he kept his Penis. In this particular instance, with all the mumbo jumbo about feeling like a 'whole new person', that is still a man with breasts and some facial reconstruction surgery. I don't buy it, but that's all. I understand why someone would feel more sympathetic towards Caitlyn Jenner than I do towards Bruce.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong; if this is genuine and she shows accountability for the murder-by-hummer, that's good! But my instincts tell me this is spin to appeal to public sympathy.

I remember him/her voicing concerns about possibly being put in a male prison instead of female prison.

Well, you should've thought about it before lol. I mean, seriously, you should. You know, after you murdered that woman.

Also, I don't want to act like I think I am a moderator, but a thread split *would* be a good idea, I mean, we've gotten from celebrating women to a topic related to killing women.

"It" is innocent.

Sounds like a fantastic idea for a topic!

Oh my lord what on earth do you propose the rep function be used for, then. It doesn't even fucking affect your rep it hardly dents it and you're so far in the green it doesn't even matter at this point, so why does it upset you so much that you received any negrep at all?? How is it at all a problem to use the rep feature to tell you if I thought you had a positive or negative input regarding the topic at hand??? How does it not make sense to use the rep button in that manner????

If you remember correctly, I was explaining why something could have been read as offensive, and we discussed this privately that I negrepped you because your typo, WHICH I WAS UNAWARE WAS A TYPO UNTIL YOU EXPLAINED IT TO ME, read as a disrespectful jab at the member in question. People get fucking infracted for insulting other members and you're upset about like 4 points of negrep!

I've been nothing but respectful to you and your opinions, and I didn't even lash out at you and you continue to insult me. I even told you I had no beef with you, and yet you continue to act like I do.

I can not, for the life of me understand why after a literal year and a half, this is something that still gets under your skin.

And you call me petty.

Oh, come on, guys. It's not the topic we're discussing. Say something about killing women. Or celebrating women. Or celebrating killing women. Or killing celebrities.

I love women

That's much better

Women love me

Nah just kidding they don't haha (except for my mom)

I am sorry that this thread turned into a hateful argument throwing.

It's not your fault Dyr, we all love you and also women

It's the curse of Gish.

Cheer up you bunch of jelly babies, also Vlam, I get that you're trying to be tongue in cheek and edgy but fucking hell.

I didn’t specify the type of surgery specifically because I didn’t know the extent of her surgery.


You don’t really get to say “it’s not up to me to say who gets to be 'truly' trans or not” and then deliberately misgender someone who has identified themselves as trans because you think they’re faking it, that’s kind of a blatant contradiction.

I’ve definitely got absolutely zero opinion about any of the Kardashians and I don’t really care if the manslaughter charges go through or not, if it’s a guilty verdict then she’ll go to jail and her being trans isn’t likely to change any court verdict. But I think that the idea that someone would change their identity in such a drastic, controversial and potentially dangerous (considering the vilification a lot of trans people receive) manner just as a publicity stunt is a very far-fetched idea, and if you seriously think it might hold merit then maybe you need to re-examine why you hold that opinion.

Also, there’s nothing to say that you can’t be trans and a shitty person. There’s plenty of people who would say Caitlyn Jenner is both – I’ve sen plenty of trans people criticizing her.

I don't think you can say is as bad/worse than actual being in prison. What's the first one for him, anyway? Twitter hate? People unwilling to talk to him?

Remember, we're talking about prison sentence. For killing.

They'd put her in a seperate section of the prison specifically for battery/violence/murder or solitary confinement or an alternative placement, the first for manslaughter, the second and third for being an openly transsexual woman who committed manslaughter for safety reasons.

Being an openly transsexual woman she could very well face hard open discrimination in any public space, from offhanded comments, to refusal of service, to being spit at, to being physically assulted, and worst case scenario: killed. Granted, this stuff can happen to everyone, but it's more likely to happen to her specifically because she's a transwoman, and far more likely for it to happen to her because shes an outted transwoman.

She doesn't seem as bothered by the latter though so idk

About this part: I've seen far too many cases of immigrant rapist (and murderers!) not being sentenced (some not even charged!) for their acts in Europe to believe that the judges will treat everyone according the law, even if it doesn't support PC agenda.

Did I say it was? No, I didn’t, I just said it was undesirable, and highly unlikely that anyone is going to go to such lengths to get out of prison.


Surprise, sex offenders are often given too lenient sentences. Doesn’t mean it will apply to a trans woman convicted of manslaughter.

If it isn't, then, by elimination, it's better than prison. Why do you think a person wouldn't choose a better option?

Maybe it doesn't, maybe it does. We'll see after they give the final verdict.

You’re looking at this in black and white when it’s really not so clear cut. Let me put it this way to you: Jenner could have picked any number of ways to try and garner sympathy, many of which would also have the benefit of being cheaper, less damaging to her publicity, and not require expensive treatment. So why would she choose this one specific way to try and get around it?

And let me ask you: if you were in danger of being imprisoned, would you consider going to such extents purely as an attempt to get a better sentence? Can you honestly tell me you would consider that a desirable option, enough to pursue it?

Anyway, this whole discussion is pretty pointless.

If I got as much money as Jenner (being an Olympic gold medal athlete and stuff) and feared a long sentence, I'd certainly try doing anything to not get into prison, no matter how stupid it is.

Fortunately I'm smart enough not go get into prison even without doing it.

Bruce Jenner had the crash in February 2015. Caitlyn Jenner didn't, because Bruce wasn't publicly Caitlyn until April of 2015. I'm not misgendering, I'm establishing the order of events. As a member of the public, Bruce was not Caitlyn to me until she came forward to the public and I was informed of this. Until then, Bruce was the only halfway tolerable member of the Kardashian clan, based on approximately 3 episodes I watched 4 years ago.

So to reiterate,
3 months before Bruce Jenner came out to the public as Caitlyn Jenner, he was involved in a terrible crash that injured a dozen people and killed one; the person he rear-ended.

I'm not positing that Bruce Jenner never wanted to evaluate his feelings on his gender before this point. I'm saying that the public announcement post-surgery was a ploy to draw attention away from the fact that someone fucking died because Bruce Jenner rear ended them into oncoming traffic.

As stated previously, I do not believe that the majority of people sympathize with or comprehend what it's like to have gender identity issues, as Bruce Jenner did (Because Caitlyn Jenner wouldn't have those same issues, correct?). Luckily, Hollywood is not 'the majority of people'. Caitlyn Jenner has to convince the court that part of the reason such a terrible thing could ever happen was stress derived from gender identity.

To put this more bluntly, you are not going to convince me that some wealthy shit-paste from Northern LA is above playing on controversial topics to spin certain attitudes in her favor. She's not convincing the people in my hometown, who blatantly don't give a fuck, but she does have to convince a jury of her peers to give her a lighter sentence. I say this because rich people can afford to fuck with the law and will go to great lengths to do so.

To simplify, so you don't get on me for misgendering (you really think I'm that unsympathetic to such a devalued role? Come on.), if the stresses of gender identity were so great, why would she possibly come out in such a public fashion? She was rolling the dice for a lighter sentence, as most likely advised to her by a well-paid, extremely competent publicist. It worked! People love Caitlyn Jenner, and people who don't aren't obligated to say anything about it, because I doubt they care, except for me with all my free time.

Watch the Oscars (basically a plumbing corporation awards show, but with more money moving around) some time. It's packed with B-listers sympathizing with Trans people because that's a hot topic in LA. To be fair, I'm sure they mean well more often than not. I remember specifically Jeffrey Tamboor had some nice things to say and then donated some money to some LGBT-oriented cause. Something like that. (This is my least reliable paragraph, don't give it too much thought)


You think I'm devaluing Trans people by calling out bullshit, I'm not. I'm reinforcing the fact that we need to attach positive role models to devalued people like the Trans community, and Caitlyn 'kept the dick' Jenner is not in my opinion a portrait of stability or competency that people should be championing.

Oh will you just calm the fuck down? It was a meaningless quip based on the last time I was involved in a discussion on gender on this forum. It doesn't matter how long ago something shitty was done, I'm entitled to shame you for being such a dickhead for misjudging what I had to say to claim a moral high ground, which you are doing AGAIN.

And let's elaborate here, it wasn't the negrep, it was the odious, judgemental little note attached to it that just screamed self-righteousness and indignation. Oh yes, I'm sure 500 days of posting on OWF hasn't made you any less fueled by righteous indignation to feel on top of a subject. My post that mentioned it in the first place? Meaningless, referential. Indicative of this weird attitude that if my use of pronouns isn't constantly up to date I'm obviously not well-intentioned or informed on a subject, which Manco just perpetuated by misunderstanding the reasoning my phrasings of 'he' and 'she'.

Who cares if I got negrepped? Only me, because I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often. Who cares if their arguments are twisted into something convenient enough to get pissy about? All of you should, since you're generally a lot more civil than I am and that behaviour is childish.

Literally no one likes her. And the "kept the dick" thing is pretty ignorant. A lot of trans people choose to not have reassignment surgery for various reasons. Does this invalidate them in your eyes?

I'm honestly asking, by the way. I'm not trying to be passive-aggressive or mean, surprisingly.

I can't even remember what I attached to the rep since it was millions of years ago, but the only reason I responded in this thread to you at all was because I physically could not understand why you felt that necessary to bring up at all and why you seemed so upset over something I thought we had resolved an equally long time ago.

I see something I think I understand, I elaborate on it, and anticipate a discussion about it. I think it's rude af to throw shit at people who aren't actively involved in a conversation, at the time this all occured that's what I had thought you were doing, but we were asked to stop discussing it, so I let it be and sent that in private, to which you responded to in private, and I understood at that point that I had misunderstood you, and a year and a half later you suddenly decided to start giving me shit for it again. I can rescind my statement, which I did when I realized it was a misunderstanding, but I can not rescind the rep because the forum doesn't have a feature like that.

My responses to the initial "callout' in this thread are 100% me being confused as fuck and I'm not trying to take any sort of moral highground, nor trying to be right, or whatever the fuck else. I genuinely do not understand why something I had thought we had resolved still seems to upset you.

What a dumb, loaded question.

Of course you're trying to be passive aggressive! You blatantly don't understand what I'm saying. Yeah, I'm really ignorant for being weirded out that with all the surgery done Caitlyn Jenner can absolutely afford a hot, functional hollywood vagina but chose not to, despite asserting herself as 'a new woman'. I call bullshit, on this one case in particlar. Fuck you and your entitled little attitude to feel victimized about what I think about someone who you have absolutely nothing to do with, whatsoever.

No, I don't think it invalidates anything. I think it's worth pointing out that there's a big fat difference in getting some tits and a facelift after killing someone with your morbidly obese luxury vehicle, and having your gender reassigned. I think it indicates a lack of certainty in gender identity not to buy yourself a functional vagina if you can afford one, and indicates the unthinkable, completely bizarre idea that maybe Bruce rushed into the initial surgery to appear devalued because maybe he wasn't so sure it was what he wanted, him or herself.

Oh, and people fucking love Caitlyn Jenner , genius.

So take your victim complex to someone dumb enough to feel sorry for your smug bullshit elsewhere, and read a goddamn tabloid for once.

How about this: I don't like you, I don't care for how you interpret an argument, I'm not interested in people feeling like I'm baiting them into offense because I'm talking about a touchy subject. Why do you possibly care if we 'worked it out'? My single memory of you is this dumb thing you did, relative to this subject. Now, instead of engaging me in a discussion about said subject, you express complete and utter confusion that people remember how you talked about it previously. Seriously, you're the one confusing me now. Fuck off.

You should think twice before giving such statements. I'm pretty sure South Park wouldn't make a parody of people loving Jenner and ostracizing everyone "who doesn't think she's a hero" if there was nothing to make a parody of.

Lmao

Don't worry. I'm done.

Man, can't you two just get along? I don't think any of you really wants to be hostile towards another.

Edit: fuck this I won't post in this shit thread anymore

Well, Jenner is innocent.