So....the War on Terror is a nickname for a large scale Capitalist endeavour to steal natural resources?

I'm confused, this isn't what they said in the speeches. :(

No we're there to secure these resources, not steal them. The big money is being made in contract deals, building facilities, schools, water supply, power. These are long term-deals we're talking about.

You have to remember, everything done has a dual purpose here. We are fighting a real war, against a real enemy, don't let the money hungry capitalists get to you.

How is Terror a real enemy? Sounds more like a badly formed concept to me, an excuse and littler more.

Off with the dumb act now sir, post-modern literature tells me that your War on Terror isn't happening, it's just a hyperrealistic projection on mass media saturated with terms and concepts that the uninformed don't properly understand and just follow like sheep. News while I was in Majorca said that the body count for UK troops in Afghanistan is 199.

199? Horrible dreadful waste of life and limb, but hardly a war. When you get right down to it this 'War on Terror' is an invasion and occupation with the end result being the biggest international heist since the Treaty of Versailles, and likely to end with the same conclusions.

Follow like sheep...?

Could you be kind enough to point out where these sheep are? Because last time I checked, public opinion polls from just about every coalition nation want the same thing 'Out'.

War is armed conflict, thus making the Iraq and Afgan conflicts, wars. Whether you approve of all of this or not is irrelevant.

199 UK soldiers died for the UK and it's interests. What rule said they could only fight and die for a cause you approve of? How can the life of a service man or woman mean so much for you to mention how 'dreadful' the loss of life is, yet the cause they fight and die for means nothing to you?

Thats an interesting paradox.

In a perfect world, I would rather a Coalition force in Africa, they could use the help. But guess what, thats a pipe dream. The world runs on profit, left or right-wing makes no difference. I've come to accept that.

Sure, there is a cold side to the war on terror, the war is not being fought the way it should be, business interests have overtaken military interests, and thats never a good thing. But you have to make do with what your given.

So you can look at the bright side, support the causes our soldiers fight for, or you can complain about it. Changes nothing in the end.

Okay fair point, I went a little social critic there. My mistake.
My point is that there's so little conflict.
It's not really, loss of life is even sadder if it's for a worthless cause.

What are you asking for? Flanks of tank formations, air-to-air combat? Storming forts?

We're fighting small terrorist cells, it's a guerilla war at times. And that being said, there were alot of months back in Iraq where it was a blood bath, so I'm lost as to how you can call it little conflict.

So if a soldier fought and died for a 'flag', despite all of his courage and sacrifice, thats worthless to you? I don't know what influenced you to view things from such a perspective, there was a time when such deaths were considered 'honourable'. Sorry the Coalition isn't fighting Aliens or saving the planet mate.

You misunderstand me, probably because I lost track of exactly where my stance was several posts ago. What I mean to say is that this small conflict has been bigged up and glorified into the War on Terror, which masks what's really going on and what the real aims of the enterprise are.

I would rather there be no conflict at all.


His death? Yes.
There was a time when blacks would damn well get out of my bus seats, your point?

These so called wars in Afganistan and Iraq are useless. They will never fully eradicate Al Qaida no matter how hard they try. The moment they think it's clear and pull out of those countries it's going to go right back down the shitter because one of those idiots still feels it necessary to blow himself up in the name of his peace-loving god and splatter the brains of 20 women and children over the pavement in front of the newly built Wall mart.

Any western country that's currently stationed over there should get the fuck out and let them deal with their own mess. We've been there for 8 fucking years and absolutely NOTHING has changed. Either bomb the shit out of the mountains those bastards are hiding in or cut your losses and go home. What they are doing right now is not working.

On a related note, Holland has had about 20 casualties since we've been over there. About half of those were accidents (mechanical or friendly-fire), the other 10 were mainly IED's, Al Quida's cowardly way of fighting.

Al-Qaeda. Not Al-Quida. Your point loses a lot of validity when you can't get the names right.
Yeah, bomb the sand niggers! Show thems whose boss!

OH WAIT

Civillian casualties, partner. Bombing the shit out of some mountain range will yield all the enemy casualties as throwing a drop of dye in the ocean.

Yes.
Courage and sacrifice are just words. I can try to relay to you all of the 'courage and sacrifice' it took for my dog to poop on your lawn, and that because of it, he should be allowed to continue pooping there. But all you see is a mess that some canine doesn't have much other choice in making. I could say It took a lot of Courage and Sacrifice to steal things from a store, but I'm still just making poor excuses for poor choices.

Man, relaying my points without calling people names is great! How come none of you ever told me about this?

Your point loses a lot of validity when you're lecturing someone who reads the news in a different language.

Hey, dude, I'm just sayin'.
I disagree with his point regardless; I would rather just half-ass it then get in another discussion with him.

Which is exactly why the current approach is not working and never will work. If the enemy blends in with the very people you're trying to protect you're never going to be 100% sure you dealt with the problem.

It's going to be at least another 10 years before those countries are close to being stable again and in the meantime it's going to be mostly the American forces dying over there.

I would still recommend D,WMC? because it focuses mainly on the War on Terror, why it's not working, why we're still trying to fight a noun, and how the majority of it is bullshit, made up to stop Georgie from looking stupid and to line the pockets of his buddies. I will admit much of it was dedicated to getting GWB out of the White House (a redundant cause now), but it still tackles some major issues and speaks the truth.

Angel left wing, right wing, broken wing. Lack of iron and/or sleeping.

this is the long post thread.

















there you go.

Me too.

Thats because we are not fighting this war the way we should. Like I mentioned the political objectives have taken priority over destorying the enemy. One could argue that Coalition forces don't intend to even draw Al-Qaeda out of the region, that being because:
1. We are not attempting to cut them off from suppliers
2. We are not attempting to stop them entering the region

I suggest you read some news-websites about whats changed in Iraq during these 8 years, you would be surprised our media mentions nothing of any success we've had.

Like I said the political goals are more important here, you say "What we're doing right now" Mate we're not even trying...

When we are faced with ethic problems, trying to win hearts and minds, or trying to make a difference, remember that there is a dead-line here. The suits back home bitch and complain when the situation in an area doesn't change. Their generals will insist for translators, or to set-up a health care to assist wounded civilians etc, stuff that wouldn't win a war but would help with local population and morale.

What do they get in return from back home? "Okay fine, here take another 10,000 troops and hurry up already".

Basicly this war is being run by politicians who have no clue what they are doing and to be frank, couldn't care less what terrorists operate in the hills.

Take a look at how we've been fighting this war.. We hold fixed positions, run out, take out a concentration of insurgents, come back. Give them time to retreat across the boarder, give them time to re-supply and than come back and hit us, repeat, repeat, repeat.

We don't bother building forts to hold or secure enemy areas, we don't dare attempt to cut off or make war with nations that harbor and supply terrorists. If we're not doing this, the war will only end if the terrorists decide to call it quits.

And of course of they won't.

I guess Courage and Sacrifice are just words to anyone outside of military service. People who wear the unifrom live by such ideals. I'm reminded of this:
Now picture coming home to your own people who not only think what you were fighting for was a lost and worthless cause, but who also believe that every display of courage and each sacrifice made was worthless.

I'm becoming more and more sure you're some form of spokesperson from the Bush regime here to assure us that dulce et decorum est.

Nuke. The. Fuckers.

What Dix is saying is that she's Buffalo Wing.

You should meet my penis.

Don't tempt him.

What are you? Some kind of traitor?

Everyone in this thread is either a communist or a facist.

Not at all, an extreme right winger would be facist. But an extreme left winger would be communist.

Since nobody in this thread is extreme to the left or right, nobody here is facist nor communist.

Yeah, that's bullshit.

Indeed. True communism is closer to an absence of government. So, it's really much closer to anarchy, making it more right wing.

Yeah. It really is.

I thought Anarchy wouldn't be included in the "left wing right wing" spectrum at all, since it doesn't employ a system of government.

I think his point is that right wingers claim to want government to completely stay out of their lives, and deregulate everything. However, that's complete bullshit as any self respecting Republican wants to completely regulate the way you live your life.

Right winging is all about the government having as little control of the economy as possible and as much over the people, Left winging by contrast is the opposite.

Communism and Anarchism aren't even on the scale of left/right wing. Also bear in mind that when you say 'Communism' you probably mean Stalinism, which is not the communist state that Marx idealized.