Shooters train you to handle guns and teach you strategy... of course it does. No better way to learn how to handle a gun and move around a building then playing games like Counterstrike or Battlefield 2. They teach you the workings of the guns, they heighten your reflexes, they teach you to have priorities in what you do, how to have better overview and dozens of things more that will assist you when in the middle of a firefight. There's no denying that and every single person in the gaming industry knows these things.
HOWEVER the idea he has that the games actually encourage kids to shoot up their schools is total f*cking bullsh*t. Anyone with a normal brain knows the border between reality and fiction and if you can't see that difference then there's something mentally wrong with you already, the games don't have anything to do with that. Banning games because some mental retards can't handle them is like banning stairs because crippled people can't use them, it DOESN'T make ANY sense.

Havoc

Exactly.

But do you know what actually makes me just as mad as when people pull the whole "video games drove this kid to murder" thing? When gamers think that they're not being effected at all by the games they play.

I just hate it when someone valiantly "stands up" for FPS games and say that they've played all of their lives and not been effected at all, which is indeed bullshit. They've been effective quite a bit, they just don't realize it. The fact of the matter is that they're more likely to make rash and unfortunate decisions. Conversely, they also have better reflexes. :p

All I'm saying is that I've played FPSs for a long time, and my trigger finger is probably substantially itchier because of it.

I agree completely. Why should the rest of us suffer just because some psychotic git decided to shoot up his school? The majority of us would never do such a thing, as we know the difference between reality and fantasy.

I'm actually the same way. I've taken an interests in guns as a result of playing FPSs all my life, and also own two airsoft guns. Despite this, I'd have to be insane to start shooting up my school as a result of playing them.

True, true, true, but the one thing they do not, actually can not, portray is the
moral and psychological consequences that fallow the muzzle flash.
Hell, that is what makes them fun.

In FPSs it not hard to tell who the bad guy is, he is right there, a menace to
to your health bar. Grease his ass-- bang bang ,done.
No one would argue that this mind set will help you get along at school, or any where else for that matter.

I think that Dr. Fool,er Phil and his ilk feel that this violence with out consequence subconsciously reinforces the acceptablity of this action in the mind of the disgruntled loner.

Do violent games = Murder , Hell no.

Do violent games add another brick in the wall of isolation around those who
already harbor antisocial tendencies? errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr could be.

Let`s hear it for SeaRex, for nailing another one. Nice Job!

OH yea, Havoc if you think that shooters teach you about handling a REAL firearm, i hope you never get one.

Dr. Phool and Jack Shithson can do whatever they like, but if it has any effect on coming out of the latest hits for next-gen...
They're in big trouble! I'll get all the gamers from my town and my little country and the neighboring countries and get to them!

Why not? R for reloading and left mouse for firing right?

Seriously though, I have held my share of weapons and I know my way around them just fine. Might also start doing some airsofting this summer which is a nice time to put my statement to the test.

But what I meant was that it teaches you about gun properties. Since most shooters aim to be realistic they mimic the real life counterparts as much as possible. So if you would want to know how fast you can empty a P-90 you could look it up on wikipedia, or enter a game of BF2 and test it yourself. I meant things like that rather then learning to use safety meganism and reloading a weapon. Obviously you don't learn that in a game except maybe you learn where the clip goes.

I'll be ready to hear on the news about you! :p

Tactics, more than anything else. I do stupidly well in laser tag, though I am a good shot too. That might be something to do with games, but with a reticule and no depth perception on a screen, I doubt it.

Wonderfully said.

I also agree because of games shooters in general but any military/fps whatever games I've played have made me that much better in let's say lazer tag and I just went paintballing this weekend for my first time and I used tons of tactics I had learned from entertainment/media/games etc. I'm just glad that majority of us are in agreement that the games, media, etc effect us but you have to have a screw loose for you to decide to open fire on people and become immersed so far that you would do something so ****ed up.

To get back on the topic for a bit, isn't it stupid how every single reason you can think off is pointed out as the reason for why this kid shot up the school but 1? They named video games, rock music, violent movies and even porn. I haven't heard religion in any online forum debate which, to be honest, kind of scares me since it's the primary and foremost reason next to the kid being psycho. What scares me even more is that I'm only posting this now... 4 pages into the topic. Ah well. This goes nice in relation to the discussion we were having in the 'Will mankind wipe itself out' thread. By shooting up a school and leaving behind a tape this kid kinda proved my point. Afterlife cookies for him :)

Havoc

I don't want to sound like an arsehole, but..

Sorry for derailing things from this mass murder, but how is 21 a major birthday, besides being able to drink alcohol?

On Topic: Wasn't the shooter guy 23? Sounds way too old to be a kid. And Havoc, you officially win this thread.

I know, but thanks for pointing it out. :p

Yes, he was 23, but emotionally, in my opinion, he was a kid. Anyone who blows a couple of insults out of proportion and shoots up a school, even if he's psychotic, is emotionally immature. Now if, let's say, the entire school hated him and shunned him, then I'd have a different opinion regarding this matter.

Ahh, that makes sense. Thanks for clearing it up. That probably also would explain a lot of things to do with this massacre.

No problem :). And it most certainly does. If this kid steeped out of his psychotic bubble world for at least a moment, he would've realized how incredibly childish his entire "plan" was.

A Texan schoolkid was expelled and labelled a terrorist for creating a CounterStrike map based on his school. There were no signs that we was planning anything else: he just used a familiar building as inspiration.

This VT thing is just getting ridiculous. I mean, labelling the kid a terrorist for that? Ugh. What dopes people are. Society is awful.

Didn't the school CS map happen a long time ago? Like a year or 2? Or at least something similar?

Havoc

That makes perfectly NO sense at all. If he didn't state the name of the school it makes it even more stupid. I know I would use my school along with some other buildings here to make a cool map. People these days just don't have a sense for anything. I wish that the whole generation of today's kids would be gamers, so that after a while when these old-fashioned stereotypes die people would have more consideration. Not to mention the fact that if anyone does a job involved with computers they say:
"What does that guy do for a living?"
"Oh, he does THAT COMPUTER STUFF"
!!!!!!????
People are afraid of what they don't know, and if there's one thing that old people (above 40) don't know, it's definetely how to use a PC! That's exactly why we get all that crap about banning violent video games! That and misinterpretaion of crimes, connecting them to video games.

They could become a scary architect!

OMG! He made a map based on his school! LET'S RUN FOR OUR LIVES! A MAD VIRTUAL ARCHITECT IS COPYING BUILDINGS THAT WOULD LOOK COOL AS A MAP! kidding aside, I just wanted to say people aren't even supposed to have fun nowadays. Cause someone just shows up, and thinks it's an act of terrorism. My friend used to lol at the begining of the school year... now he's an outcast just cause we used to make more jokes while others had nothing but standing in a circle and shoving one guy around. Retarded. We stepped aside watching them and thinking about how more stupid can it get. Then they outcasted those two friends of mine and now they wanna be with me! Suck your own greaseball dick, motherf***er! I don't hang out with people with too low of an IQ not to understand a simple joke, but to see fun in shoving around!

How the hell would that help anything? People would still continue to dislike each other, regardless of whether or not they were interested in the same thing.

Reading that made me wish you lived here so I could rub your face in my father's computer prowess. He's going on fourty-four, and he knows more about computers than you could possibly even imagine. Don't assume that every adult out there is computer-illiterate just because you heard it somewhere.

You're blaming the supposed computer-illiteracy of middle-aged individuals on why video games are blamed for violent behavior? Jesus Christ, could you get any more ignorant?

:lol: I was hysterical when I read that. Nice one, BM.

A:People wouldn't want to ban violent video games.
B:Not all people over forty of course... but most of them
C:no, I'm blaming the supposed computer-illiteracy of middle-aged individuals fighting against video games on why video games are blamed for violent behavior.
D:Oh, that wasn't my comment...
Just don't flame me FCS! It's really irritating to have an 18-year old giving me lectures. Maybe you're just more psychically mature than me.

EDIT:NOT maybe, definetely.

I'd love to play a map based on my university. I'd know my way around it! It's like being let loose with paintball guns on the campus.

Now, if he'd made a game in which only the player is armed and everyone else are NPCs that can only run away, then that is a cause for concern.

Exactly my point. Not really, but you're right. Some GTA mumbo jumbo NPC killing most certainly would be worrying. Not to mention if NPCs have skins taken from real life, or if they're based on real life. But if the school makes a great map why the hell not make it! But if he did include the name of the school he can be expelled. The thing is one idiot somewhere in here took his clothes off in the middle of the class while teacher was out. But the problem is he put the name of the school when uploading the video, so they expelled him.

Erm... it already is like that. The average age of gamers these days is in their late 20's. Wait another 20-30 years and the world's governments will be stacked with gamers. All we need is to wait for the generational hand-over.

I'm sorry, what?! Are you intentionally putting in ridiculous points in the middle of your posts to see if we actually read them?

Yeah, a gamer president would be cool :)
Oh, but you did read it! :p
Nah, I needed a real life example

Okay, you just did a complete 180. You said, and I quote:

Apparently, according to you, people do want to ban video games.

If you didn't mean every middle aged person, make it apparent, rather than expecting me to infer that you meant a handful.

It'd be wonderful if you elaborated.

I'm not flaming you. I'm just responding to what you posted, and giving my opinion regarding the matter. It isn't my fault that you spew your opinions everywhere without having any evidence to back them up.

Exactly. But he didn't, so I don't understand what the problem is. People honestly need to stop jumping the gun (no pun intended), despite our current situation.

Glad I'm not the only one who thought that.

That's exactly what A points out. It was suposed to respond to all your quotes.

That's it? That's all your little imaginary society of gamers is good for? To prevent games from being banned?

Wow. That'd really benefit the world. From now on, toddlers should be required to play the Sonic and Mario games, so we could quickly jump-start your plan.

:rolleyes: