Wouldn't it be cool to just expand on the backtracking you can do when you return to Rupture Farms? In the original game, even if you rescue all 28 muds before you escape, there are more of them to rescue if you go back to where you started.

You could put the mudokons there for the first part, without any bird portals around and without hints that they need rescuing. They would just make the factory look alive. Then on the way back, when Abe knows he can save everyone, the player can choose to backtrack to save all the muds he passed earlier. A status board near the Zulag 1 exit could remind the player that there are still muds stationed.

Then, the secret areas in stockyard would be useless and since you wouldn't have practiced in RF, they would be fucking hard...

I’d be cool with this, I guess. I’d prefer to keep the secret areas as they were originally and keep chanting available from the start, but this is an interesting idea as well and a possible sort of compromise.

That said, I think the gameplay element of rescuing Muds needs to appear fairly early on, otherwise there’s the risk of throwing a new task at players fairly late in the game, causing some frustration.

Nah because, surely Abe isn't so much of a heartless bastard that he saw mudokon pops and only thought to save his own skin?

That's what I was thinking. Perhaps the 'You escape and all 28 workers on this level die' board could be replaced with an LED board saying the amount of workers left in zulag 1, as opposed to (or in addition to) the amount left in the whole of RF. This would inform players there is something extra hidden, whilst addressing what people have said about the 'You escape...' board seeming out of place. The mudokons could still be there when you return.

I agree with what has been said about the chant suppressors being there for a reason. The fact that they are there implies that mudokons know about chanting to some degree. I suppose it would be appropriate for Abe to chant from the beginning to open portals- whilst not trying to save everyone in RF, I still think he would try to save those he ran into on the way out.

I still think personally that possession should be learnt later from a story point of view (in all honesty it doesn't bother me- I will be happy either way in Abe HD- I just think it makes an interesting discussion point :p). I wonder how many times you actually need to use it before Monsaic lines? I'll bet most (if not all) of the zulag 1 and stockyards sligs could be killed with trapdoors and grenades/mines. Think i might give it a go and see if it's possible! :D

Aww but the 28 workers die bored is so Orwellian.

Please God keep the 28 workers die board. It's one of the most memorable things pre-Monsaic Lines.

Yeah that sign actually made me want to go back and save them all. Saying that, I couldn't because the secret near the start of Stockyards is impossible for me. Seriously I have never done it before.

That is a tough one.

It's easy crashpunk, your supposed to hop over the trap doors.

I imagine you've helped.

I've beaten Abe's Oddysee with all mudokons when I was maybe 10. Try hard Crashpunk and don't give up.

I helped him with the secret area of Annex 7 of Bonewerkz, but even with my help, it still took him ages to do and he didn't even follow my technique the entire way.

It is a little tricky, but timing is everything.


Actually yeah - That sign gave me, as a player, a reason to go back and save all the mudokons, even though Abe, as a character, is never told directly to save them before they're fed into the flesh farm. It's purely a gameplay thing - The story doesn't do much to explain that Abe is equally concerned over the lives of his co-workers as much as he is about saving his own skin, nor does the game really set that moral choice to the player until that point.

Yeah, you do see an earlier LED sign telling you, as a player, to lead mudokons to bird portals, but you're not told why until you see the "28 workers die" board.

But I think you discussed this already.

Wow. Thank you all for the support. I guess i'll try it next time I play Oddysee. :lol:

These forums should be called Oddworld Support Forums :P

This is a new suggestion that only related peripherally to what we've been talking about over the last few days and was inspired by what Michael said:

Can you please add a section to each employee/escapee counter board to say how many employees there are in the current Zulag? AE did something similar and I much preferred knowing in advance if I'd missed anyone.

Yeah good one. I support this.

As I recall, AE didn't give a running tally on how many were left in each land. It was fine for the mines, where you only have to see that your 90 escapees matched the 90 Necrum workers, but after that you had to do subtraction in your head each time to see how many were left in, say, Slig Barracks, and then only if you're sure how many you had before you came.

Also the one-way tunnels were annoying. Every door had "Tunnel X No Return" but most lead only to more of the same tunnel. It was a nightmare tying to work out if the mudokon you had left was in the next part of the tunnel or if it was still around and that was the door that actually led to Tunnel X+1.

Agreed 100%. I kept thinking I forgot a few mudokons in Bonewerkz and there wasn't a way to check if any remained.

Agreed again. I remember playing AE, being right at the end with the countdown going, really hoping all of the mudokons I still needed were there to rescue before I finished the game. They were, but keeping track was difficult.

I agree with what Bullet Magnet said- wondering whether or not to go through a 'no return' door because it wasn't clear if the last mudokon was missed or still to come was a little frustrating!

Then again, keeping track was hard but do-able. Having the extra info on the screens would make saving all 99 (or 300 in AE) easier. I've always liked the fact it was difficult to rescue all of them. Makes it more rewarding when you finally succeed!

I would always save before going through a door marked no return. Just a good habit to get into. It has to be a proper save though, as a Quiksave file is supplanted by the new path.

I'd prefer it if they took out the No Return in AE-HD. I liked being able to backtrack through large sections of Rupturefarms and other levels.

And (not entirely related, but I feel like ranting) I really hated the artificial no-returning in Stranger's Wrath, where you were regularly forced to jump down a long drop or go through a one-way door as your proceeded through a level. I would have preferred it if I was able to backtrack to where I remembered seeing a good supply of live ammo, rather than being forced onwards with empty clips.

Okay here is my idea that started after I remembered what Abe said during the Good Ending of Abe's Exoddus

-"But we knew they must be more of us out there, and we're gunna find them!"

I was thinking of unlockable stages after you completed AEHD where Abe re-visits the locations he had been before like The Mines, Slig Barracks, Bonewerkz, FeeCo, The Brewery, and maybe even Rupture Farms but different parts of them where Mudokons may still be enslaved or trapped? Unsure when Munch's Oddysee (if it's straight after, this idea is fucked) The stages could be set between AE and MO.
Since all the places have been shut down, the places could be overrun with escaped creatures (Scrab, Paramites, Slogs), The environment could be decaying, (I was thinking of a destoryed FeeCo train overgrown with plantlife and broken machinery) and could also contain Sligs who have no order and still have Mudokons as slaves for there own needs.

These stages could be really difficult as well. I mean insanely difficult. Adds more replay after you've finished AE and take full advantage of the brilliant gameplay Oddworld has.

And I think we all want to re-visit the amazing locations in AO/AE don't we?

Maybe that's some ideas for DLC or bonus levels - I wouldn't include stuff like that in the main games if I were JAW though. That'd just increase production time.

Considering the Brewery was destroyed by an explosion could Abe really just wander inside? and assuming there are still Mudokons there, surely they would have been killed in the explosion.

But I like the concept of the idea.

I don't get this whole obsession with going back to places. You've already been there. And everything either escaped or died. Wouldn't you rather see new places which have characters in?

Well I thought it was rather interesting to see the mines destroyed when you went back into them.

This was especially annoying when you were about to fight Elboze Freely. He had a huge gang, and there wasn't a shit-ton of ammo near his arena. The first time I fought him, I got fucking pummeled because the only ammo that I had left was completely non offensive, like Chippunkz. It's a good thing he's relatively easy to whittle down with Zappflies, or I'd probably be stuck on that fight to this day.


Wil, for shame. You should know games like Oddworld aren't meant to just be plowed through in a straight line. I think all games, especially ones with hidden challenges and gorgeous scenery, should be explored as freely as programming will permit. Even looking at it from a linear perspective, there's no good reason in my mind to make previous paths totally off-limits.

Take a page from the first Rayman game; you couldn't progress to the final level until you rescued all of the Electoons. You had to be able to revisit previous levels so you could find them all. Obviously, you can't do that in Oddworld, but you should at least allow the player a chance at perfect Quarma without being prevented by something as stupid as "whoops cant go back, door closed".

Agreed. Even if you couldn't explore much, it was a nice little touch.

I think that’s a fairly narrow way of looking at things. The possibility of revisiting areas has a major effect on the pacing and flow of a game, especially one which relies strongly on a storyline and a grounding in realism.

For your example, backtracking works for Rayman because it’s a non-serious, cartoony kind of game. The levels are relatively short and mainly focus on platforming, and the world is broken up into levels which can be navigated around quickly via an overworld map.

The reverse is true for AO/AE. The story is linear, serious and has a fairly dark streak through it, with a focus on moral choices and Abe’s personal journey. The divide between levels is often muddied but they are typically fairly involved, and focus on navigating around friendly and enemy NPCs as well as traps and hazards. The overall game world is treated as a single flowing journey to match the plot, as Abe visits each area without intending to return, sometimes even closing down or outright destroying locations.

AO and AE simply do not lend themselves to backtracking, not without some serious structural changes.

Sorry if abit late, but for the abe chanting debate.

How about at the start of the game the bird portals seem unstable. Take longer to open/birds fluctuate/close more violently like abe doesn't really know what he's doing?
Then after mosaic lines have the opening of bird portals more streamline and efficient?

That sounds pretty cool actually, I’m a big fan of subtle touches like that.

I imagine a bird portal closing too early and cutting a mudokon in half. Implement that.

:lol:

I like that idea! The first portal you encounter could be treated as a tutorial and could take several attempts to properly open. For example, the first time the portal almost opens, but fizzles out. The second time, it opens and soon closes. then, the third time, it opens but it's size fluctuates and the edges wobble (in 2.5D i'm assuming the portals would be seen as ovals and not just 'lines' like in AO and AE if you know what I mean).

Abe could also show some physical reaction, like when the portal abruptly closes he is knocked down by whatever force or energy he is tapping into, like when he is zapped by a chant suppressor- maybe with a zap of that crackly electric portal stuff for good measure :p

It most probably won't happen. JAW wants to stick to the original and that is a big change to game core mechanics... to be honest I'm 100% ok with JAW's decision

@Micheal - Cool as that would look, it would confuse new players unless they were told directly that they had to save mudokons.

I think it would truly be a lost opportunity if Abe HD is only going to be a 1 on 1 copy. New engine, new capabilities, ability to implement things that had to be cut from the original. Would be a waste not to use that.

True :p I guess some kind of 'Give it another go' instruction would be pretty terrible! I'm just throwing ideas out there for the sake of discussion. All in all, I will be pleased no doubt with whatever form Abe HD takes, whether it is a carbon copy of AO or not. Though I do agree with Havoc, it would seem a bit of a shame if things were exactly the same. As great as AO is, there is still room for some improvements! (Not speaking of my suggestions there)

I whole heartedly agree! We already have the original games what's the point I. Just upping the graphics? Jaw would be idiots not to implement new Elements at every possible opportunity , obviously it still needs to be Extreamly similar but it needs those extra something's to bring it fully into the future otherwise it's gonna get left behind by some of the truly amazing 2.5d platformers out there