It doesn't really prove that the Bible is the book of God though, it just proves that people have collected some random goings ons and placed it in the Bible. I think the Bible would have more of a backup if it had "And Jesus said love everyone and thing except gays" or "And so-and-so is wrong" but it just states it, probably through people adding such a thing throughout time and because they believed in God, they didn't want to put "And Jesus said..." and so just added "And so-and-so said Gay is wrong".

Also, so far you've produced nothing else that states the Bible is the book of God. That is one of the main pieces of evidence i want. Not whether certain occurances stated in the Bible happened, because Nostradamus has done that, but other evidence, other than the Bible, that says the Bible is, in itself, the Book of God.

And Grig the Slig, how about i believe the Bible stuff and help defend certain parts of it if you answer my questions. I may try extra hard to read it aswell, but you have to answer my questions fully, non-avoidably and to everyones satisfaction.

1 - What other source other than the Bible states that the Bible is the book of God?

2 - Where does Jesus say that "Everyone is to be loved, but Gays, Transgendereds and Transsexuals should be exiled from Church and will burn in the bowels of Hells fury."?

3 - Certain sins in the Bible have been taken out and are no longer a sin. These are not because of God wanting it that way, but because of public pressure. Some of these sins are wearing clothing made from different fibres and growing different crops in the same fields. These are punishable by death and also will see you fall into the abyss of Hell. So, are these still sins? God still sees them as a sin, but the Bible has taken them out, whats going on? Also, when Homosexuality and the sinfulness of that gets taken out from the Bible, will you except its time for your attitudes to it to change?

Other people may have other questions...

Regardless of whether God is real or not I question his policies. I don't understand why homosexuals should be stoned in the street. Neither do I understand why someone who has done no real harm to anyone and who has tried to do good by people should be condemned to hell for not being sure that he is real. The Christian god is a spitefull and angry god. I fear him. And I refuse to follow an entity with such malice. By the way he has lied. God said that he is omnipotent. That he can do anything. Can god create a rock to big for god to move? If he does then he can't move the rock. If he doesn't......well, thats self explanitory. It doesn't sound as cool to say that he can do 98 percent of things does it? I'm going to reiterate what I said before. No form of love can be wrong. There is absolutely no reason for you to disaprove of homosexuality.It hurts nothing. In fact I do believe it helps the population problem. Anyone who says that they hate or disaprove of being gay is either extraordinarily stupid or has only looked at it through the eyes of their upbringing. It is time to evolve ideas people. Become stronger of mind. You will find yourself much happier.

Jacob, I'm glad to see that you are trying to find answers. I have a packet, if I can find it, which explains and has evidence on how the Bible is the word of God. I will type it as soon as I find it.

Old manuscripts that were found. Lemme find that packet...

It's impossible for you to love everyone. Only Christ has the power to do that. We can only try to love our enemies and treat people with kindness. Jesus also said, to deliver yourself from any kinds of evil too. If someone were to be evil to you, you can say "bye" respectfully and leave that person alone. It doesn't say in the bible that God hates gays. God hates the sin, not the person. It saids in the bible not to judge anyone and that would include gays and such. I'm not trying to judge you or make you feel bad, but it does say in the bible that if you are gay, lesbian, trisexual or whatever, you cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

I think your confused by that because some of those sins were brought up through cultural purposes. Back then, a man can have ten wives. That was their culture but God thought of it a sin. Man didn't think it was a sin, they thought it was normal because it was their culture. People get confused because they think the bible contradicts itself. People tend to forget that there is culture in the bible. Like in the New Testament, Timothy 2:9 states that a women has to dress modestly, without so many jewlery and the women can't have braided hair. The people thought that is a women were to wear alot of jewlery or braids, she would have alot of pride. It was their culture, not ours. You can wear alot of jewlery and braids if you want. We still go by the dressing modestly rule because it's common sense. You would not dress like a prostitute. when you go to church.

Jacob, what sins do you mean have been cancelled out? Like what?

Although I am still not believing, I must say 'good work' to oddguy for actually trying to answer our questions. Unlike Pinky.

True dat. Big props ta oddguy. Oddguy in da hizouse.

*raises roof and lets the dogs out*

Your the only one who is acting like a loser on this board right now. I've answered questions, plus didn't I just say that I was going to find a packet that I have to prove that the bible is the word of God? Plus, what are those quotes for on my replies? They aren't there for decoration yo. I believe you can't read at all! Actually, I believe you don't even read the replies at all bascially.

Plus, Good work to oddguy and Grid too:D

I hate to tell you this but you can't prove anything about god. For proof you need a thing to be logical. Nothing about the existence of god is logical. I'm not saying he isn't real. Logic shows it to be improbable though.

I just try to answer Q's without getting mad or anything, because hey......like I've said before, I don't try to force my beliefs on anyone. In the end it all comes down to what you think. There are people who have evidence for the Bible, scholars I might add, and there are other scholars as well who try to dissprove the bible. What it all comes down to for me is.....faith. Some things in the Bible can't be explained in scientific tearms, but are very easy to understand in tearms of spirtuality.

I think when Jacob talks of sins taken out, he's talking about Old testament. The New testament......that's why it's called NEW, had a lot of different events take place with the coming of Christ. We don't have to sacrifice lambs anymore to cleanse sins, because the Lamb sacrifce was simbolic of Christ anyway. Now we don't do that, because Christ atoned for the sins of the world and it's through him that repentance is possible.

God isn't an angry guy.....It's Men who makes the mistake. God doesn't hate anyone, just the sin. I actually have some friends that're homosexual and they're really cool people! I don't hate them at all and I still love God.

I think that GOD still loves Homosexual people, he just doesn't love the sin of homosexuality,he doesn't like sin at all, but he is always wanting us to repent and he'll forgive us like that! *snaps fingers* I really like all of you guys, even Mac!:fuzsmile: I really want to prove to you that the BIBLE is the book of GOD, but being the doubters that some of you guys are, will you really beileve us if we prove to you that the BIBLE is the book of GOD? Cause if not, I really don't want to waist my time. And I'm sorry if you see this as "forcing" my belifs on you, i'm just trying to give you another prospective.

The events of the Bible took place there is a lot of historical evidence. Mount Sini for instance where Moses went up and brought the ten comandments down. The actual stone tablets that were smashed and recreated and placed in the Arc of the Covenent does exist.

There are tons of evidence of these events all over the middle east. The parting of the Red Sea is really based on a mathimatical science. It was demenstraited in a lab that water can be parted.
There is an underwater ridge in the Red Sea and with enough wind and I do mean the strongest known wind there is, the water rose up and backed its way over this ridge leaveing the other half dry so that the Iseral lights would cross. They demonstraited a miniture version of this effect. Now critics will say its all a myth and not true. The Bible is a Myth nothing like that can't ever happen.

Ok let me challenge you here on the existence of God. The Universe is scientifically nature at its best right? Well in science things don't just happen from nothing there always has to be some sort of driveing force to cause something to occure. Thats typical nature. Ok now how was the Universe created?
Science says the Big Bang. Well ok now I have another question what driveing force caused the Big Bang? Critics will say the expanding atoms or gasses and such. Ok but you dident answer my question what drives those things to happen? What sort of force can cause atoms to do that create a big Bang, create a Universe what sort of unknown power is capable behind the motives of Nature? Why do they move? Why are they so attracted to each other? Why? Is the question. You ask any aithiest these question and they can't answer because they know that driveing force is God. Your scared when you are an aithiest and you don't want to believe because you don't want to except the truth. Go on say your things your theories your only proveing your self wrong because you can't answer why. And when you think you have that answer the question still remains why and what is it that causes things? Whats the motive of it? How? Simply the answer to this profound idea is God. God is the driveing force of everything.

You who don't believe will come to realise that and really feel guilty. God never intended Man to screw up but he did. And God knew we were going to do that. Why he dident stop it is something that is even more amazeing. If Adam never ate that apple we would be robots. But since that happen we suddenly have choice bad and good ones thus resulting in to what everything is today. Adam and Eve screwed up and that alone has made the human race into what it is today. Say your theories and your ideas but God knows the true answers on why. And if you have faith in Jesus Christ and follow his teachings you will have that knowledge also. I am refering to non believers by the way so don't take offense!

Go paramiteabe! I study Astronomy, and I find that if you believe in GOD, it's way easier to understand! I think that what all of the Christain people are saying is right! I hope you guys can understand that we're trying to help you, not have you tortured and suffer in eternal damnation! We love you guys!:love:

yeah...edited from your minds, foo!

I'll see you guys tomorrow! :fuzgrin:

Good job guys!

Nicely done paramiteabe:):)

Grid, your attitude and style of answering questions seems like you are only repeating what your parents or family have said. Is what you say, actually your own thoughts? Or are they the thoughts that have been implanted into your brain by the Church?

There is also a lot of evidence that religions such as Buddism are also correct. The evidence is much the same as you have presented here.

Don't get upset however, none of us actually expected most of you to answer those questions. They never do, afterall.

But kudos to you oddguy.

Alcar...

Well, that's ok Alcar, we still WUV ya!

Some things in the bible are historical fact. That does not mean that they weren't fictionalized when they were written down. Also the arc of the covenant has never been found and neither has noahs ark. Anyone who tells you that they were is either misguided or lying. Still, I don't deny the possibility of god existing. I do wish that some of you would look at the things that god calls sins and try to decide for yourself with no bias why they are. You may change your mind about a great many things. The fact of the matter is that a lot of stuff (homosexuality for instance) just doesn't matter. Seriously. Go smoke a joint, sit down and you will say to yourself OHHH GOD! I'm sorry everyone. I just realized. IT DOESN'T MATTER! WOW! I mean love is love right? WOW! LOOK AT THE COLORS! How can any love be a sin, man? WOW! I FEEL FUNNY! If god is love then why does he condemn lovers to be stoned in the street? WOW! ITS ALL BECOME SO CLEAR! GOD IS A JERK! CALM DOWN GOD! HERE. HIT THIS, GOD! NOW DON'T YOU FEEL BETTER GOD? hEY GOD, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I SAID! IT DOESN'T MATTER! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

I refer to the documentary on Moses and his escape from wherever when i say this -

The parting of the Red Sea was said to be down to the current. The documentary hasn't been on in ages, but the people said that the current pulled the water out and left a small strip of land to allow people to cross. By the time the Chariots could have come the water was already filling up, the Horses and other heavy objects would get stuck in the mud and the sea would eventually swamped over them. If this was true then it shows that, that part of the Bible was exaggerated. The sea wasn't huge and it didn't part maginificently...it just parted away gradually and came together gradually. Anyway, didn't Moses commit a sin? Shouldn't he love his enemies? But he killed them in cold blood.

PA on the whole God doing everything thing than that again proves that the Bible was exaggerated. If you're going by that logic you must understand that, that took years...not days...and thus the Bible was once again exaggerated to make it more interesting.

And sticking to that point we could easily pose the question "But how do you know the Bible is Gods word?" you'd say "Because we have Historical evidence that stuff said in the Bible happened." then we would say "Yes, but how does that make it Gods word? Somebody could have wrote it up?" you say "Because we've found tablets and everything he's said has happened...and...and...and it just is". But still, you haven't proved its Gods word. So, just as we cannot prove that God isn't real. You cannot prove that he is.

And like Alcar said, there are tonnes of Religions out there that can prove their reality. Wicca were you do Spells is one of them. I have had quite a few of my Hex's and other such things work. So, does that not mean that Religion is real? What about Ouija boards...? Surely its not possible to break into Heaven and commune with the deceased?

Like somebody said a while back the Bible is a guide, not a blueprint. You should try to live your life as fully as possible and have fun. Most Christians don't. They believe that quite a lot of things that are fun are sinful. It was the Religious types that were against anthesetic when that came about, saying "If we were designed not to feel pain, then God would have made us not feel it!!".

Take a step back. Look at the stuff you're doing and saying and think "Do i really want to ruin my life for faith? For something that has hardly been proved. With only a Book as a basis of this faith?"

And Pinky, who decided it best to create the New Testament and scrap the old one? Isn't that like saying "That books got boring now, lets bring out a sequel."

Actually, according to the bible, Moses didn't kill the Pharoh; God did. He smote him a new one. :D

However, I still stand by the whole "Red Sea was typo" thing.

I'm a jerk...

Well, I just came back from church, so I hope that it'll help me answer your Q's! I realized today that I can't make any of you believe what i'm telling you, you have to be open to it in the first place! It says in John 20:29 Blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. That's true, but you guys are like Thomas, always needing evidence. The only difference between the Christian people and the other people is faith. I think that almost everyone has faith on some thing, am I right? We have faith in God and Jesus, and you have faith in other things. You can't force faith on people, but you can share it with people. Faith is the most important thing you need to have when believeing in God and Jesus. But you can't just have faith. It says in James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? You also need good works. I hope this helps!

But Grig how can I have faith in an entity that I see as a great evil?

I want to see some smoting...God, feel free to smote.

Different topic - What would you do if you found out you were the ultimate evil?

I had a dream were i was the ultimate evil, put on the Earth to wipe out man kind...I will divulge more once i have made sure the dream is not true...

How is God a great evil if thats what your refering to?

Explan this to me if you claim that the Bible has been fictionalized then how do you explan Miracles that happen in more riecent times? For instence sightings of images of the Blessed Virgen Mary appearing to children. A statue of Jesus Christ that seems to Bleed. The profacys that are told in the Bible of the end days are happening right now. I have even seen myself images of Christ within clouds and even within static on my television set.

Very vegue images that resembol Christ that I could make out.

Just a few months ago there was a story on my News that a bunch of people could make out the image of Mary within a glass window. A lot of eye wittness accounts of these things take place nowadays. Its indeed another sign from God that the end times are here and Christ will return like a thief in the night.

The Bible has been written by man who was influenced by God. So man wrote it but God was the reason Man wrote it.
There are many virsions of the Bible but the true Bible is the Holy Bible.

People lye.

For instance, many of those crying statues have been proven to be false.

Alcar...

Oh wow... biblical...

Hey, ummm--- I know I get flamed if I ask this ,but--- do you guys really buy all that stuff what the bible says?

Gotta tell ya, I lost my faith a long time ago.

I don't eat up the bible's every word. The way i see it is that the bible is a way of explaining yhings we don't understand. Be it the truth or not, it makes many people around the world content with the answers that it gives.

i'm a bit of a believer, i believe in the whole heaven and hell thing, and sins = hell.

The Bible is their to provide hope, and to explain things that science cannot.

Alcar...

What Prophecies are these? The story of the statues crying can be either faked or lied about. The children could lie also. Anyway, it doesn't prove anything. In some random Hindu country an Ivory Cow began crying milk...big deal.

"Satan" has been seen in the smoke of 9/11. I've seen Bunnies in the sky. Hares in the Tree leaves. Even a penis in somebodies cigarette smoke.

Mary has been seen in Potatoes. Mother Teresa has been seen in Potatoe Crisps...what does this mean? That they have been reincarnated into food?

On the whole topic of miracles i am intrigued by Stigmata. An occurance in people were they get the marks of Christ upon their hands and feet and bleed for no apparant reason. This could be put down to their total belief and devotion. They're so devoted to Christ that they make those things happen themselves. Its like doing a Spell, if you want to enhance your Soul and Aura you will have to concentrate fully on doing that and it will work. The same can be said about Stigmata. They believe in Christ so much that their Soul and inner power inflict those injuries.

But where do you think that comes from? Nothing?

And yes I never lost my faith I still believe in Christ as much as I believed in him when I was very little. Infact my faith is even stronger now than it was before. You just talk to God and he will help you out. We are all children of God wether you want to believe in it or not he loves ya!:D Its all good!

Having unyielding believe in God isn't faith. Faith is believing in something you are not truly sure of.


I'm catholic, mind you.

I am aware of that and I do have lots of faith. I am too a Catholic aswell.

And how has your life been since? I'll tell you guys now, no matter how hard you try, your FAITH is always there, you can never lose it. It may shrink some, but it's always there. You just have to "water" your FAITH and let it grow. Read the BIBLE, pray, go to church, and other stuff like that will help your FAITH grow!

And to answer your question, yes I do believe everything that the BIBLE says. And I don't think that i'll flame you...today. :p

No our energy and Soul apparently come from the Earth, Gaia...or whatever. Pagans dance for her, i do believe.

Like i said before when this was stated you could easily be "answering" your own prayers...

You can't answer your own prayers! How's that supposed to work? I have prayed more than 1 million times, and all of them have come true. When my sister was born, she had spina-bifida. She was paralized from the waist down. The docters said that the condition would never improve. So my family and tons of other people prayed for her and still pray for her, and now she's only paralized from below the knee down. If that's not a answer to prayer, what is???

the fact is that if you have something strongly on your mind you will see that thing everywhere you look. For further info watch a great movie called PI.

Old and not so tasty, with your talk of smoking joints and relaxing, I became partial to you.

With your last comment, I fear I may love you.

Joints. Excellent taste is movies.

Okay, so the love bit was obviously a joke, but you are pretty great.

My life's been great, at least I don't give myself false hope.
I think my faith has withered and died away.

I know I might sound critical and stuff, but that's how I feel.
Ain't gonna start judging anyone for believing in God or Jesus, I just don't keep them in a valued position in my life.

...so sue me...

Choices and Miracles
 

I just skimmed this topic so don't criticize me when if I make it obvious I didn't completely read this action packed thread.

In my opinion homosexuality is a sin. But so is drug use, abortion, violence, fornication, lying, stealing, swearing, etc. We all sin. I used to hate gays, even once stated they should all be killed. But then I realized something. I deserve to be killed to for my sins, everyone does. We are all sinners, often times intentionally. But we all think we are doing what is right.

What I don't like is when homosexuals try to push people to accept their way of life. Although I think everyone should be Christian, not do drugs, etc... I am not started big marches and trying to change the constitution. Gays make a choice to be live the lifestyle they live. If they are unhappy with the consequences of their choice then that is their own fault.

And don't tell me that homosexuals don't have a choice. Everyone has a choice and if you think otherwise you are really quite a hopeless person. A paedophile, murderer, rapist, heroin addict, alcoholic... all of them make choices. They are not victims to a society, or genetics. They chose to live the way they do. We all chose our paths in life.

It is wrong to persecute others for their sins. We need to help each other even if we hate each other. Gays fighting for rights are trying to change other peoples beliefs in order to make society agree with them. That seems selfish to me. A person who does something generally considered "wrong" should not try to force people who still think it is wrong to change their opinion. If a paedophile tried to convince everyone that they were just the product of society, would anybody listen to them? I hope the day never comes.


Oh and PA. You are very misguided. I agree with you to some extent, but don't think all those modern day miracle hoaxes will change anyones opinions. That sort of stuff make Christians look dumb. The apostles were the last people able to do miracles and all those "eyewitnesses" are liers. That stuff isn't a sign from God, that is a sign of pagan stupidity. God doesn't need to send signs like that anymore, his direct work on earth ended when Jesus died. We don't NEED signs like that anymore.

Real miracles are when a mother with superhuman strength saves her child from being crushed by car after a wreck. When a person with a paralyzing injury learns how to inspire others more fortunate than them. When a person recovers from cancer. Those are REAL signs that God is active in our lives.

I hope you all learn something useful and can show tell nonsarcastically and intelligently if you disagree with me. There is nothing worse than someone making a joke out of another persons beliefs. That show immaturity and a lack of real conviction. A person who really strongly believes that they are right doesn't have to mock another person's beliefs. That just shows that they are actually still unsure of their convictions, despite what they say.

Wow. I had a lot to share.

that was one of the most ignorant things I have ever read! for one thing homo sex is consentual and they know what they are doing. How can you compare that with child molesting? Gay rights marches and speaches are just that. For gay rights. There is no reason that they should not be able to do everything we do just because they sleep with someone we would not sleep with. Seperation of church and state boy.