I enjoy games best when their storytelling is within the game play, and the two aren't separate. Environmental and contextual storytelling included.

If there's a dissonance with storytelling and game play, it brings me out of the story the game is trying to involve me in. It takes me out briefly. And as before mentioned, video games is its own interactive medium, it doesn't benefit from the same strategies that films do.

Look at Undertale, look at Dark Souls. They're both examples of alternate forms of storytelling, which aren't possible via films. The concept of "game play and cut-scenes are seperate" rubs me the wrong way, a game (specifically story-focused games..) needs to be mechanically competent whilst telling an interesting story. If they can combine the two effectively to match one another, they have accomplished at making a good video game.

Edit: I'm fine with your opinion of "Abe knowing how to chant isn't a big deal", everyone's entitled to their opinion. But this debate is regarding the double standard of Abe being able to posses Scrabs and Para's in AE, but not AO.

I've always considered Abe's possession abilities to be a combination of skill and his own spirituality. So here's my somewhat indepth reasoning behind it.

From the get go he is essentially blind to his race's culture but as Abe's Oddysee progresses he learns more and more of the Mudokon's past. I remember reading in an article Lorne explained something along the lines of Mudokons believed in a form of Shamanism (Obvious I know since they have Shamans) and that the non-sentient animals to be the most truly spiritual and connected to nature: Mudokons because of their sentience Mudokons would never be as truly in touch with nature as creatures such as Scrabs and Paramites were, but still strived to be.
Perhaps this is where the power of possession came from? In order to reach the minds of creatures who are more attuned to nature. This would also explain why initially Abe can only control sentient industrial creatures like Sligs, rather than the more "spiritual" animals such as Scrabs and Paramites, and why gaining his hand scars could potentially grant him the power to do so.

In terms of skill - with the exception of native species - Abe isn't able to "succesfully" leave a host until three games down the line where his possession ability has advanced to the roaming spooce orb we see in Munch's Oddysee. In both Abe's Oddysee and Exoddus, Abe essentially self destructs Sligs and Glukkons in order to get his own mind out. Though he does this in Munch's Oddysee with Sligs he doesn't seem to do it with Glukkons like Lulu so there's definitely a conscious choice with how he uses it.

But that's just a theory... An ABE Theory. Thanks for reading!
i hate myself

That's all good, brother. :) And I do appreciate the differing interpretations; it's always interesting to see how someone else interprets something that—in my mind—is set in stone.

I'm with Nepsotic on this one, for sure.

Exoddus is to Oddysee what Reloaded/Revolutions was to the original Matrix. Bigger doesn't necessarily equal better.

EDIT: Around 31:30 in that video is exactly why I disliked Exoddus towards the end and could never be bothered to fully finish it. Until that point I'd been enjoying it somewhat, but that hub within a hub within a hub system towards the end completely ruined the whole experience.

He also has a very good video on gags in the Oddworld series and how they're perhaps becoming a bit too prominent a feature

I was actually planning on making another thread about this video but I guess I don't have to now. That's a great video which illustrates exactly what went wrong with Oddworld and why it hasn't been the same since Oddysee.

Feel free to make it! It's definitely another topic worth discussing separately, I won't begrudge you for making it because I 'mentioned it first', promise.

I'm confused. Is the wrong video embedded there?

No?

Whoops. Thought the "31.30" comment was referring to the video he had embedded there, and it only goes to 29 minutes. Ignore me. :)

I agree with the guy that Exoddus definitely has the best blend of humour and serious themes. I didn't have a problem with those 4th wall breaking moments like him, though.

The thing about Oddysee is that it's a parable. It injects some slapstick humour to keep things light without really hurting it's themes or atmosphere like Munch ended up doing.

However, Oddysee is still a basic fairytale parable with thinly drawn characters. I mean Molluck basically isn't a character. He's the grumbly, evil businessman. But it works since Oddysee is a parable told through narration. It's a basic story that adds context to the gameplay.

But if you want to dive deeper into Oddworld and craft an actual story with dialogue and arcs etc you need more. But, honestly, do you want Oddworld to be this very serious and dark story? I really do think Oddworld needs humour to stop it from becoming a badly written, preachy, melodramatic snore-fest. I think you need humour and levity to inject some heart into the world.

Unless you keep the parable format for the rest of the series you need more from your characters. As the guy said humour is a good way to inject some personality into these caricatures - but as long as it remains grounded.

So in Exoddus you can have humourous interplay between Mudokons and your low ranking antagonists and still keep things pretty dark. It's a blend and the two aren't mutually exclusive. The grubs in Stranger were definitely irritating but it's a black mark on an otherwise tonally consistent and enjoyable game.

Although what's wrong with the Brewmaster, man? That guy was nifty.

Abe's Oddysee dealt with humour much better. The comedy comes from the gameplay itself. I still think farting in that game is one of the few instances where it's still funny, because it's just ridiculous given the context.

That's the whole point, the game is so broken and inconsistent that every time you play through it is unique and some hilarious shit that you've never seen before will happen no matter how many times you've played previously. That's one of the reasons I love AO so much. Abe's Exoddus had that, too, but the forced humour in the cutscenes is definitely detrimental to the atmosphere.

I guess that depends on what constitutes forced humour? I mean is Abe's slapstick moments with Looney Tunes sound effects in Oddysee forced humour? Most of the humour in Exoddus comes from character. I think it's all pretty successful in that regard. I also don't think it undermines the more serious themes.

I think Exoddus' biggest drawback, storywise, is that it's just a rehash of Oddysee's plot without the benefit of taking Abe, or the storyline, moving in any real interesting direction. It literally is just a bonus game in every sense of the word. It's just Abe going on a very similar tangent while we wait for the real story to continue (although Munch didn't deliver in that regard as we saw). However, it's blend of humour and dark themes is actually one of its saving graces I think.

You may be right:

http://oddworldlibrary.net/archives/...earalf08.shtml

Nice, got it right. I could've sworn I remember reading something like that a while ago but I couldn't remember from where or who said it.

I wonder if Abe isn't the first mudokon terrorist to attack RF or the cartel, I just wonder because even your every day slig can tell that if another slig is acting funny he is possessed, perhaps it's not such an uncommon occurence?

I've finished AE (again). I notice something: Mudomo felt rushed (shorter than Mudanchee with less interesting puzzles).

I always thought it was the other way round. Mudomo had the more interesting puzzles because the Paramites had a bit more depth to them. (Gamespeak and climbing the webs) while the Scrabs was just howl+spin kill everything.

I remember that secret where you have the guide a Paramite and yourself to save Mudokons from getting crushed. That was really neat.

But can we really talk about "puzzles" in Mudomo? Gamespeak isn't even necessary. With a paramite you have to do only two things: killing fleeches and climbing the webs. You don't have to use your head. Moreover, it's much shorter than Mudanchee. Play it again, you will see. Compare to Paramonia (more complex).

Agh. I forgot about if you start killing Fleeches, the other Paramites will just do the same thing. I keep thinking Gamespeak is required for that.

I think I will give it a replay soon.

Well the whole game was "rushed", they had a hard deadline to keep. Considering this they did quite an impressive job.

I did not say that. I'm only talking about Mudomo.

Even though they managed to get the game made for Christmas 1998, it still shares some the glitches with Abe's Oddysee like the ledge glitch and the stop 'n' turn glitch. I wonder if Soulstorm will have the same areas to explore like Nexcrum Mines, Necrum, Feeco depot and the vaults. It will be interesting when we finally get to see a trailer for Soulstorm.

Yeah, but it definitely shows.

No, it's a matter of choice like if they weren't really interested with the idea of Mudomo. Soulstorm Brewery is way too long (but they wanted to).

They did indeed. But it does explain the game's padding issues.

This also makes me even more excited for SoulStorm, if this is meant to be Lorne's true vision for Exoddus. :)

I'd hesitate to mention Lorne's "true vision" of any Oddworld game without anticipating another forum-wide debate. :P