Did you even read my reply to your post before? OWI is far from being an "empty shell".

They are not a disaster, and they are certainly not a lottery. Should the controls behave in a non deterministic fashion, how would Shade667 be able to speedrun the game? I played the game multiple times and so did a couple of my friends and once we got used to it the controls were great. I admit I have some issues with the meat grinders and the UXB but after seeing a friend absolutely breezing trough them I can only blame myself.

So basically what you are saying is that the best way to create a product is to ignore customer feedback?

You simply have no idea what you are talking about. You are complaining in the same couple of sentences that he has no new ideas because he's doing and trying new stuff. It sounds like you see Oddworld as just being AO's creatures and you're upset the creative mind behind oddworld actually had a larger vision for this world.

:happy:

Yes, Xavier, I read jour posts. Almost everybody understand mine : I'm saying that OWI is just a word today because I am talking about the persons who were behind AO AE, MO and Stranger. What is left of OWI today ? Tell me then. Except Lanning, his wife, Will and two or Free guys.

If you say the controls aren't that bad, what can I say ? I am going to repeat : we are talking about the remake of a 2D game made more than fifteen years ago...


Again, OWI didn't need OWF to make good games. Also, did you read this forum one year ago ? Connell was pissed because his complaints weren't acknowledge. So the expectations of the forum will grow and JAW will still, at the end, disappoint.
JAW aren't targeting the Oddworld nerds but the people who remember they liked this little green Guy and don't really care about the rest (the game is perfect for them, which is understandable).

Again, you dont seem to understand about Lanning : I am talking about what he does. He didn't do anything since SW. I'm talking about real new games. Not imaginery projects like Oddmobb or Citizen Siege. But people are always cutting him so slack whereas it is still possible that he stops just after AE's remake ; before remaking AO's all over again in 20 years from now.

OWI's role now is about managing the Oddworld IP. This means having a roadmap of upcoming projects, overseeing the development of those projects and fostering the brand, for instance by interacting with its fans.

Here you are being upset because OWI is not in charge of the actual game development as they don't have in house developers, animators, audio engineers, etc. It's true OWI decided to outsource this to JAW but Lorne and co kept a very close eye on what JAW was doing with Lorne being on site to help the team out.

Additionally OWI contracted some of their former employees to do some additional art (Raymond Swanland), music (Michael Bross) and animation (Monkey Brain Studios). Also keep in mind that they re-used a lot of the original concepts and design, so not a lot of new work was required in those areas. So while OWI does not have their former staff working a full time job for them (what would Michael Bross do as full time OWI staff anyway?) they have them close at hand when they need them for a new project. And really, with the budget OWI now has they are working in the smartest way possible.

So? You wanted it to play like a fifteen years old game?

OWI did listen to fan advice before their hiatus in 2005, you can ask Wil if you don't take my word for it.

Also OWI is doing the targeting, not JAW, and they were trying to please everybody with NnT: the hardcore fans, the casual fans and even people completely unfamiliar with the games. That's very hard to do and while they pleased most of the casual fans and the newcomers (just look at the reviews) some hardcore fans were disappointed in the end. C'est la vie.

Since SW Lorne did quite some things, including a failed attempt at a social video sharing platform which was a lot of things but not "imaginary". He felt disgusted with the state of the gaming industry after SW and that's why he put OWI on hold at that time. But now with digital distribution things are vastly different. After the Xmobb failure he's been working his ass off to bring Oddworld back via Steam and various other ports trough digital distribution, those things don't just magically happen. It took a long time for OWI to get decent funding and to initiate a new project such as NnT but the ball is finally rolling again.

Original AO controls *were* vastly superior to ones in NnT. There's nothing wrong with expecting the controls of the remake not to be worse than the original, which were made almost 2 decades ago.

Is that a nicer way of saying that he got pissed EA didn't advertise his game well? :p

AO's controls weren't amazing. They're precise, but clunky. A common complaint is about the UXB pressing delay in NNT, but the original game had some similar problems. Sometimes in AO Abe would just hold off of jumping for a fraction of a second while he struggled to enter the animation. This wasn't a consistent problem like NNT, but it could get pretty frustrating in the whistling sections when he just wouldn't do what you wanted.

I agree the controls needed more refining though, and I hope JAW took notes from some of the recurring critisisms here. I think the idea of moving into a more natural or dynamic world is good, with everything being more smooth and streamlined.

In AO you had to hit the button on the keyboard (or playstation controller if you're a pleb) a little before you wanted abe to hit the xmb, because the animation took a little bit. I never really minded it but that was probably child me that had nothing better to do just getting used to it.
tbh I still really want Hand of Odd
There's plenty left, that's what. It doesn't take a huge team of people to overview how another huge team of people are doing and say "yeah doing good" or "nah doing bad, fix it"

You're talking about N'n'T like it failed. I think the game is mostly an unenjoyable experience for me, but on the whole was successful.

At least it's better than MO.

lol can i have what you’re smoking

Another thing : how will JAW manage to make great 3D controls since they have already a hard time with 2D ? Are they going to copy MO ?

You can't. You obviously smoke too much.

Wow. Wow varrok, nice way that you spun that around. You really got Manco on that one. Very strong counter argument.

Honestly the control styles feel so different comparing them seems silly, back to the whole "N'n'T is just a different game" thing.

I think we've gone enough off topic. The near future of oddworld is pretty apparent, we're going to get TzF yes nep, that's just for you due to how well N'n'T has done, but post that I really don't know. I can't possibly imagine TzF being more popular that N'n'T so it probably wont really bring in more of a fanbase.

it’s because i’ve been smoked by your witty burn yowza

I feel OWF is heading the same direction as OWI with NnT, in terms of humor.

Alf becomes a sarcastic and bitter old Mud who constantly tells Abe he hates how much he’s changed over the course of his adventures.

I actually thought a lot of NnT was funny, it just didn't fit in that game.

I have a question : when Lanning reveals all the plots of the quintology in 2008 with Nate (I think) doesn't that mean that, at the time, he just gave up about Oddworld ?

When did he do that? I'm pretty damned sure he didn't reveal the plots of any of the games (aside from saying that the ending is a tragedy), and I was there.

That made me giggle.

I think vlam is referring to Maggie's grandmother and the whole Gorman Disenza (I think that's how it's spelled) story arc. But that was just the bare synopsis of Squeek if I remember correctly, definitely not the entire Quintology.

That's not even a synopsis. It's a plot element.

Correct kjjcarpenter. It was like "it's a conspiracy in a conspiracy". He also implied that we will be playing Molluck.

I don't remember when he said that in the interview. In fact, he actively avoided saying that we would be playing Molluck in such an obvious manner that I took it as confirmation.

As we all know, NnT is a complete different game than AO.

I fell in love from the first moment when I played NnT. The gameplay itself is awesome. The controls are much more sensitive and may feel unfamiliar compared to the original, but you’re getting into it quickly. It’s not like pushing the arrow to the right or left and Abe is making one single calculable step. You need to be more carefully (I play it on PS4 and have no idea what the PC, Wii or whatever version is like).

But: Am I the only one who thinks that the most needless thing is the health indication? I never use it and have no idea why I should.

I agree that NnT could have been more darker and gloomy. But the movements and overall speed of the game are so fast anyway that you really can’t enjoy the in-game graphics and stunning settings. You just run through the screen. It feels more hectic and stressful to me. But most people play it more than only one single time so you will discover the details anyway.

The cutscenes... well I felt like I wanted to scratch my eyes out (or Abe’s). The characters look exaggerated and way too cartoonish (except the Sligs, they always look cool, but they don’t really have face to ruin, at least I have no worries about their look in the future). It just doesn’t „feel“ like the old ones, which were just EPIC! Everything is so „round“, colorful and shiny in NnT. Really unusual for Oddworld and especially for the old fans. Plus the extra cutscenes in Paramonia and Scrabania are redundant and made me discover the skip option.

Overall I’m missing the „Oddworld-Magic“ that AO and AE had.

Compared to the HD remakes of MO and Stranger they had no base to work with. Always keeping in mind that they started at almost zero when they made NnT and for that OWI & JAW did a really really great job.

And publishing it to as many platforms as possible is absolutely the right way to reach new fans and catching back the old ones.

I’m hoping that they will get back to the old glance someday. I can’t wait to play TzF.

The health indicator was a tiny but very useful inclusion that I took full advantage of.

I even knew where all the healing spots in a level were. But I needed to see what my health was like to run through bats. Bats rinse ur health in a second.

I miss the darkness....

Hello darkness my old friend...

Well, if you care about the health indicator : does that mean you don't play the original mode (no lives) ?

What? I play on hard. Sligs and everything else still one shot me but Bats and bees dont.

Yes, you're right : it's not a faithful remake.

Aren't cheap deaths just the best...

Bees were never one-hit kill and bats were buggy and infuriating. I like the new system. I just wish falls still killed you...

I prefer playing through NnT simply because you can now kill the bats.

Actually, the shitty meat grinders negate that fact so back to AO it is.

Falls and Bats should still kill you. So many sections have been made easier by the fact that you no longer die if you miss the ledge and bats are what made some of the ST and PT levels so hard and fulfilling once beaten.

That's false, the bats were cheap as fuck because a lot of the sections they were in were buggy as shit.

I never recalled them being buggy but I believe you if you say they were it wouldn't surprise me if they were and I just didn't notice

I'm mainly referring to the areas with the swinging boulders.

You know, not being able to go trough the grinders while a lot of other players actually can tells more about you than about the game. And the fact you're constantly whining about it tells even more.

Nope, and that wasn't their intention. You that are so obsessed with "money well invested" and "smart moves" should ask yourself if it would have been a good idea to release a game in 2015 that plays like a more then 15 years old game.

"Constantly whining about it."

It's not the way it plays that's the issue. I'd better not get into it though, because I'd be constantly whining about it.

The mood, atmosphere, and aesthetics are the problem not the dynamics.

I've already answer to that. Again, AO's controls are perfect in comparison (even for a game made more than 15 years ago). Isn't retro gaming a trend ?

Also, it shows that they didn't get what this is about : you're Abe, a guy who is weak and has to rely on his intelligence . He is so weak that bees et bats could kill him ! So in the "hard" mode it should have been the same thing. It was intentional in the first place (Lanning said something like "there is no life bars for a purpose").

PS1 was the realm of hard games (AO, silent hill, RE1, Medal of Honor, etc.). Now all games are easy in comparison.