1: Thanks for that clarification. Meaning has now returned to life. I feel much better.

2: Hmm, I think I misinterpreted my thoughts. NO ONE has a RIGHT to salvation, it is the gift of God that we receive. We preach to the unsaved, and God chooses which will hear the word, and which will repel it. A lunatic would be unable to understand; we should still do our best to communicate with them, but if it is impossible, they must be executed.

As an example, if a murderer is converted to Christianity while on death row, he must still be executed. His earthly guilt remains; the difference is that, on his death, he will not be damned forever.

Bullet Magnet: I'd rather not debate over Shakespeare. It's too low of me to bring him into a thread about "knocked up." We can try to find some other common ground.

Agreed on all counts. So? What does necessity have to do with anything? What should that stop one doing anything? Things not being necessary are what makes life interesting. This forum isn't necessary. Striped shirts aren't necessary. I look forward to your argument opposing the existence of both those things.

And foul? That's the point, isn't it? It isn't always foul, and that is certainly subjective, but being foul is one of the purposes of swearing. It is a valid purpose.

When you're misintepreting your own thoughts, you really need to examine yourself.

So if the atheist who never did wrong dies, he goes to hell. The murderer who comitted a terrible atrocity says "I'm sorry" at the last minute and gets into heaven. What a fair system.

Shakespeare wasn't too good for sex. As far as I'm aware, he loved it.

I'm afraid there was not an atheist who never did wrong.

Bullet Magnet: Striped shirts are not necessary. But they are not offensive, like swear words. Why would you want to be foul? The definition of foul: Merriam-Webster's Dictionary: Offensive to the senses; loathsome. Even if they act as the quarterback of your vocabulary, why would you use loathsome words when there are civil ones that will do just as easily?

I'm afraid you're full of shit.

I'm guessing you're referring to yourself. "The atheist who never did wrong." If not, define wrong and we'll discuss this civilly and in contextually-related sentences.

Do you believe you've never done wrong in the eyes of God and yourself?

No. I have sinned often and greatly.

Have you ever done "wrong" in the eyes of God and yourself?

This is the part where he defines "rejecting God" as a great wrong.

My whole argument was that "civil" ones do not always do the sentiment justice, when you want a harsh edge to your phrasing, for example, or actually desire on occasion to be uncivil. Or, you know, personal preference. I'm not particularly concerned with causing offense, particularly to those who are offended so easily, and over such trivial things. For them, being offended is really a self-inflicted distress.

I dunno about God, but I'm pretty sure I've never sacrificed any of my personal beliefs or values. I certainly don't regret anything I've done in my life.

Now for the other prong in your argument; nobody leads a perfect life. Religious people 'sin' too.

WoF: What are your personal beliefs? Not regretting ANYTHING is a problem...you don't regret ANYTHING? At all?

Bullet Magnet: Why would you ever feel the need to be uncivil?

Nope. I've made mistakes like everyone has but I've come to terms with them.

This is the life I've led and I wouldn't trade it for anything else, or waste time regretting things, in the world, God or no.

By "coming to terms" with your mistakes, does that mean you're sad you made them and you're trying not to make them any more?

Regret is a necessary feeling. If we miss an opportunity, we should regret not taking it, then in the future attempt to take all possible good opportunities. Is this what you mean?

I don't, usually. And I don't consider swearing necessarily uncivil. But I can be pushed to the point at which I no longer deem the person before me to be deserving of basic courtesy. Such a state is possible, and the consequences well-deserved.

Trying to get the thread vaguely back on topic...There was a story a few years back here about a couple who wanted to give their daughter who had Downs Syndrome a hysterectomy. Their justification was that she panics at the sight of blood and that she would never have the maturity to take care of herself hygienically.

Civil rights groups went crazy about the enforced sterilisation of a poor, disadvantaged child. It was a big news story for a couple of days, until someone pointed out to them that people with Downs Syndrome are already infertile.

Stop feeding the troll, people. He's made it clear he worships an imaginary being - we know he's intellectually challenged.

Alcar...

You guys start the first religious discussion in months and I'm not invited?! What the FUCK guys! Now the power of two admins stop me from joining in :(

Are people with Downs Syndrome infertile by default or only in certain cases? And there are a lot more mental handicaps where becoming a parent probably isn't the wisest idea so the discussion remains ongoing.

In any case, anyone who needs help themselves in their day to day lives should not be getting/given the responsibility of raising a child. That unfair to the child and to the people who eventually get burdened with raising it.

I don't get how having children, in this day and age with over 7 billion people on the planet and the projection of having that DOUBLED in the next 100 years, is still a human right. But that's a different discussion entirely.

Fact is that a male can be sterilized in way that is fixable (though not 100% guaranteed). So I don't see the difference between doing that and forcing them to use a condom.

If Wikipedia is to be trusted, almost all males with Downs Syndrome are infertile (only three cases ever recorded of one becoming a father) and females have much lower fertility, as well as many problems related to childbirth.

So that partly knocks back my last post. Hmmm.

It's because they have an extra chromosome. Chromosome 21. It can't pair off in meiosis, it's the same reason that most hybrids are infertile.

I feel sad for anyone who equates homosexuality to rape.

Darnit! I was about to say that!

Curse that freeloader-some. Throwing genetic organisation into chaos and fulfilling no useful purpose.

I am not slogging through 4 pages of posts, so I'll cut to it, do we have another zippy Jesus freak in the form of Lord Stanley? Thanks in advance, pumpkin.

Just ignore the Bible basher and stay on topic Mac, it's not worth it and I don't want another God debate, that was a pretty shit few weeks.

It's been a pretty shit couple of millenniums.

Okay, not quite a couple.

Alcar...

More like three tenths of one and then one tenth of the next.

interesting fact: humans are one of only two races in the world to have sex for fun.

ive never had a close call because i choose to masturbate because the one time i tried to have sex with a girl she accidently ripped my ear off.

and yes, the word is too concerned with atractions, expirementation, and sex.

Leaving aside your misuse of the word 'race', I can think of...

1. Humans
2. Dolphins
3. Bonobos

(and I don't pretend that's an exhaustive list), so perhaps you should do some research before throwing out blanket statements.

Because that was clearly the most interesting part of a post containing the sentence

hey, you said that in the other thread, too.

have both your ears been ripped off?

Weird, I was thinking the other day about how someone once told me that only humans and dolphins had sex for fun... and how they were wrong, because bonobos do. And then I thought... well... everything does, that's the whole point.

Post the damn story. I want to know how the hell that happened! How do you rip someone's EAR off during sex?!

And, y'know, procreation.

Male antechinuses sex themselves to death in the breeding season, and I don't think it's because they want to be daddies.

As a species it's to procreate, yes, but individually...?

Actually Ench, the orgasm is a way of making lazy species want to reproduce. Most creatures don't fuck for fun, they fuck because it's a natural urge.

I rather think that was his point.