It's not like there's much choice. We can either choose to ignore them, in which case they'll keep bombing places to get the attention they want. Or we can fight them in which case they'll keep bombing places as retribution.

Problem with fighting is that you'll never truly win, because there will always be someone with a vengeance for killing a family member or leader or whatever. Even if you were to nuke the entire middle east, you'd be signing the death warrant of the entire planet since every other nation with nukes will start using them instantly.

There is no real solution, but generally offence is the best defense. So until every single bit of religion in the world is exterminated we'll just have to go with that.

So what would you have proposed? Should they had just ignored him. I can understand being against killing, but that's what war is.


EDIT: They tried to take him alive, but that obviously did not work out.

Hail Hydra, as they say.

http://rpmedia.ask.com/ts?u=/wikiped...ation_Head.jpg

This is bullshit.

There is never a reason to celebrate death.

Please see the following link for "MAJOR FOREIGN HOLDERS OF TREASURY SECURITIES (debt)":
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-cen...uments/mfh.txt

It's an official document from the USA Treasury.

Libya is listed under Oil Exporters 3/, unfortunately though it doesn't give the specific debt amount for Libya.

I will provide a few other interesting things about the Libyan situation:

-The rebels created their own bank within weeks even before creating their own government

-The oil reserves in Libya are the largest in Africa

-The US and UK have been providing supplies to rebels for some time

-Qaddafi stated previously that he would provide future oil contracts only to China, India and Russia though he did make this statement after the uprising

-Qaddafi previously started a movement to refuse the US dollar and the euro and instead called on Arab & African countries to use a new currency called the gold dinar. Last year this idea was approved by many Arab countries and most African countries but was viewed badly by the USA and EU governments

-Libya's central bank is state owned and has nearly 144 tons of gold in its vaults

-Their central bank is also not a member bank of the Bank for International Settlements (BIS)

-Their oil industry is also nationalized

-All of this makes it much harder for foreign interests such as the BIS to interfere and screw over Libya's national economy to achieve their own ends

-While far from perfect, Libya's citizens enjoy free medical treatment that beats the US and other Western countries by a large margin,their education (including in abroad universities) is free, they get non-interest state loans, cars cost a lot less than in Europe, basics like petrol and bread cost next to nothing, there are no taxes for those who are engaged in agriculture, etc

I apologise for only mentioning the oil part and the debt previously though as there is much more at stake than that.

Back on topic: it also seems rather convinient that Osama's body has been gotten rid of so quickly; this means no possibility of future autopsies or investigations to find what what actually happened to his person.

I'm also surprised that they did it so fast, but the reason why they did at sea was to make sure that his grave didn't become a shrine to extremists.

That's a pretty good point also.

At the risk of sounding like some crackpot conspiracy theorist, I think disposing of his body so fast is rather suspicious.

That makes sense.

To be fair, they had already done genetic testing, done an autopsy and taken photos. What else could they have done with the body to prove it to your satisfaction?

I don't think the real conspiracy theorists will be pleased until they see his body on display on Time Square.

They wouldn't even be satisfied then.

Unfortunately, this has played right in to the hands of Fox News and the Republicans, who will probably try to diminish Obama's upswing in popularity by imply something dodgy is going on. Also by suggesting that Obama cares more about Muslim traditions than security.

I haven't actually read anything about it, so I guess my imagining of the events might be a little incorrect.

Fucking politics. I can't believe people still vote for those clowns.

To be fair, if you had to try and please American* voters, you'd have to do lots of stupid things too.

* Obviously this effect is not limited to the USA

According to the Associated Press, the burial was recorded and the video will "probably" be released soon.

At least, that's what I read on the Sky News ticker last night. No idea if it's true.

I don't know why they disposed of the body so soon. I know the reasons, but I don't know why they were deemed important.

It's still bullshit. Circumstantial, lazy stuff with no actual link, just attempts at making America the bad guys (which in this conflict will take some work). The above point has absolutely no relevance at all. This argument is not even necessary, since there are more than enough actual transgressions and legitimate crimes throughout the past few decades to justify intervention, including supplying arms to the IRA, sending death squads to assassinate people in foreign lands and generally destabilising the region. Oh, and murdering his own people.

Actually I was (and still am) slightly suspicious about the whole thing.

Firstly someone who has not been heard from in years is suddenly located and murdered; he did deserve death but he also deserves a fair trial.

Then within a few hours they secretly dump his body in the sea as according to Islamic tradition. Why would they give a shit about respecting Osama's body? Because they may offend people apparently; but obviously said people were not offended by his death (Also they didn't seem to have a problem parading around the corpses of Saddam's sons). Oh yeah Islamic tradition states the body must be wrapped in white cloth and buried in the ground perpendicular to Mecca.

And the only proof we really have is the word of the US government (who would obviously never lie, especially concerning warfare) and a poorly Photoshopped image, probably created by some newspaper trying to make a quick buck.

I've never really believed in conspiracy theories prior to this.

Either you're pulling this out of your ass or I've missed out on something.

Yeah, but that photo wasn't released by the government. It's a known photoshop job that's been circulating for years. Some half-assed editor pulled it out to sell some newspapers.

Not suddenly. If you'd bothered reading the newspaper, you'd know that they've been on the case for years. Four years ago they got the name of one of Bin Laden's close associates, in August last year they tracked him down and put him under surveillance. And it was due to that surveillance that they managed to work out that Osama was in that compound, planned the attack (including building an exact replica of the compound on a military base in the USA), tried to execute it last Friday, called it off and then tried it again on Sunday.

Not 'suddenly' at all.

Yes you are right.
It just seemed a bit strange to suddenly drop some people out of the sky and shoot dead someone who hasn't really done anything in years.

I'm not saying Osama is innocent or anything it just seems like "We killed because we can".


And if you had actually been bothered to read my post...

Shutup Moxco, that tinfoil hat must be covering your eyes.

Very well but there have been worse transgressions commited by other countries, so what is it that makes Libya so special?

Don't you find it a bit odd that the rebels would create their own bank before their own government (try finding a record of any rebellion doing this before)?
http://www.cnbc.com/id/42308613/Liby...n_Central_Bank

The US and UK are supplying the rebels
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226033830884
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-...-libya-rebels/

You could say they're supplying the rebels out of the good of their own hearts. Unfortunately their motives seem a bit suspect when you factor in that Gadhafi had pushed for a united Africa that refuses the US dollar and Euro while using their own currency, and this idea has recieved support from various African countries.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to get many links from main stream news sources on this particular issue, strangely enough:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6239656.stm
http://www.africa-union.org/root/au/..._statement.htm
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...ca-455337.html
http://webofdebt.wordpress.com/2011/...about-banking/
http://www.vz.ru/news/2010/12/15/454859.html
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle27967.htm
http://readersupportednews.org/opini...-about-banking

You are refering to Pan-'Western dogs are the enemy'-arabism?

I wasn't referring to any arabic or muslim leanings and if you checked what Gadhafi was talking about he didn't mention such leanings for an African union either.

As for anti-western sentiment by African countries, it's not like as if that is unfounded (a few examples since I'm lazy if I dont provide links):
http://allafrica.com/stories/201105020083.html
http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Hornet/milt_intv.html
http://www.newsfrommiddleeast.com/?new=76794
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=20708
http://www.voltairenet.org/article161777.html
http://www.twnside.org.sg/title/tett-cn.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...21/economy.uk1

I'm under no illusions about the purity of his motives or the difficulties of the task however you must admit that a united Africa is better (for Africans) than the chaos that we have at the moment.

Because it shows to the Islamic community that they are not out to destroy Islam but merely on the hunt for a dangerous terrorist. In other words, it had nothing to do with respecting Osama's body but with respecting the Islamic believes.

And then they threw him out of a boat so they couldn't have a shrine for him...they just wanted to make sure he wasn't too much of a martyr I think. No relics as it were.

Al-Qaeda say they have a nuclear device stashed in Europe, which they'll detonate if Osama was ever killed/captured.

Nothing has happened.

I doubt they'll notice that side of it. I think they'll be more concerned with the whole 'Holy shit those bastards killed our leader!' side of the events...

Spooky.

I bet OANST would have something entertaining to say about this.

How can someone say something entertaining about an un-entertaining subject. I think it's a load of fuck-wankery to be honest (well, from what I briefly heard off the news.) An American soldier/general/politician said that they killed Osama and now they're going to pull out.

Now I don't know if this will come true or whatever but I wouldn't like to think that this entire war was based fighting one person. Not to mention that the Al-Qaeda proved to be a bit of a handling for the American army so whose to say they won't co-ordinate a retaliation attack? Also the fact that Mr. Suicide Bomber could walk in and perform a little firework display for us in the middle of a crowded street because the person they respected was murdered in a undignified manner.

All that I'm saying is that America should stay put and worm out those damn terrorists arseholes and after that, they can pull out to fuck or stay or whatever. If America pulls out now they'll confirm the stereotype that Americans are fucking stupid.

This is my view on what extremely limited knowledge I have on the war and I know as much politics and warfare as I know how to make a drink fizzy so feel free to point out shit to me.

What else is there to do with a dead martyr-esque character's body? Keeping it around refrigerated/embalmed/whatever would be kind of creepy... not to mention, I'd call it a bit disrespectful to show it off in a "Hey foreign governments and conspiracy theorists, come take a gander and satisfy your curiosity about this dude's corpse!" type manner. As mentioned before, they'll never be a way to fully satisfy the folks who jerk off to hypothetical elaborate plots. May as well cut to the chase and conclude the chapter.

Where did you get the idea that they're pulling out? No one said that. If i remember correctly, Obama basically said it's not over. Last night on the news i heard they're still looking for his successor.

Also i just watched an interview with the director of the CIA. Apparently they took pictures of his body after they shot him, but they refuse to release them to the public.

10 years. Trillions of dollars. Thousands of soldiers dead. State of the art technology. The US finally found Bin Laden.

In his house.

Afghanistan was invaded ten years ago, $1.5 trillion, 2,358 allied deaths and 30,000 civilian casualties later very little has been achieved.

It's Vietnam all over again (albeit a more justified cause); at such a scale guerrilla warfare is nearly impossible to defeat conventionally.

And even if Al Qai'da and the Taliban are destroyed their ideology will live on; you can't stop people becoming terrorists.

So needless to say: I beg to differ.

EDIT: Dammit dix.

From the first paragraph of my post. I also said that I briefly heard and then said that I didn't know if the claims were true. I'm just saying it would be stupid for them to pull out.

So what, let the terrorists rebuild their forces with a newly fueled rage for America or wait until they elect another figurehead? I'm not saying this course of action will be the most feasible of options but it's one I'd like to see (for all the interest I have on the subject.)

Not bad topical humor :p