You are aware the Qur'an is 3 times more violent than the Bible, right?
And what's this nonsense about 9/11 being vague? Al Qaeda sent 19 men to go and blow the towers, that ain't vague. Muslims all around the world are screaming in your ear they want to dominate and liberals are just sticking their fingers in their ears and going "LALLALALLALAL THERE IS NO TERRORIST AND ISLAMIC THREAT LALALALALALA!" |
How the hell can the Qur'an be more violent then the bible?! I don't think thats humanly possible to think up in your head. Have you read the damn thing and on that note, have you actualy ready the Qur'an or is that something you picked up on one of those nifty websites of yours?
As for the 9/11 attacks, I'm not gonna get into a huge discussion about that but theres a lot of strange stuff surrounding the events of that morning. |
Anyone who thinks 9/11 was not done by Al Qaeda is an idiot. Period.
This is from an atheist, left wing source; http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot....-or-quran.html |
Dude seriously, stop with quoting people's sources, I don't give a rats ass. If you want to have an opinion about this sort of stuff then go read the damn thing yourself and then you can have as many opinions as you want. That's why I have so many opinions about the bible, because I actualy read it and I actualy know what it says. I don't need a graph to tell me how violent the bible is, I know the stories in there. I know it's a book written with blood. But for god sake man, wake up, the Bible and the Qur'an are exactly the same story with some twists here and there.
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Translation: Facts interfere with my beliefs, so I'm just going to ignore them and go with Truthiness.
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More accurate translation: Facts can be selectively chosen to prove anything. Forfty percent of people know that.
You do realise PV, that that translation really appears to apply to coming out of your mouth rather than Havoc's? |
Thank you, Nate. Amen and الله أَكْبَر to you!
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I know. I'm not unable to knowingly make a hypocritical statement purely for the sake of making fun of myself.
Okay, how do you reconcile the fact that the violent verses in the Bible, taken together as the total density of the book, CLEARLY are less than those of the Qur'an, using the same method? |
Easy. You throw the books out the window and look at the way that people actually practise their religion. You of all people should know that books don't define a religion because followers are rather selective about how they interpret them. Have you stoned a rebellious child lately, after all?
That said, I acknowledge that some Muslims are teaching and practising hate towards others. I truly believe that this is a stage that all religions go through. Judaism went through it two and a half thousand years ago. Christianity went through it in the middle ages (Inquisition, anyone?). And Islam is going through it now. |
Yea, just bad luck for us. But on that note, lets look at modern terrorist christians shall we? Setting on fire abortion clinics... setting gay's cars on fire... setting gays on fire... voting for Bush... protesting loudly at a veterans f*cking funeral... killing gay people again... driving around with those little fish on the back of their car... voting for Bush... AGAIN! OH! And how could I forget... RAPING CHILDREN!
Now you go, PV... |
How the f*ck is voting for Bush or having a fish on the back of one's car equivalent to setting gay people's cars on fire (and in any case, how many Christians are doing that?) and what fundie group aligns with Phelps.
Child rape is forbidden in Christianity; http://bible.cc/matthew/18-6.htm It is endorsed in Islam, as little boys wait for "martyrs" to rape them in Paradise and Muhammad himself raped a 9 year old and the Ayatollah Khomeini advocated this; "A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate. If he penetrates and the child is harmed then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however would not count as one of his four permanent wives". (Arabic Source (http://www.al-shia.com/html/ara/book...ahrir25.htm#a4) - 12th item under the title "Ketabonnekah") If we judge Islam by it's followers reactions.. how many Christians do you see rioting, burning down embassies, beheading, and sending death threats over cartoons of Jesus? |
Child rape is not allowed by the bible, it still happens.
Killing people is, just like in the bible, not allowed by the Qur'an. It still happens. You know what Qur'an does say? It says that if someone offends your religion you can defend it, with force if need be, but not with death. Go buy one and check the pages. Both books also have exceptions to the no killing rule such as; Bible: Gays may be stoned to death. Sleeping with animals is a death crime. I believe sleeping with family is also a death crime. Qur'an: Gays may be disowned and/or killed. Sleeping with an animals is a death crime. Sleeping with family is definatly not done and the raping of a child is something that has not been tradition for ages, if it ever was! Come on! If you want to compare religions by what is printed in the books then be my guest but I promise you that the Quran will come out to be a lot more gentle. The idiots killing other people, setting buildings on fire and flying planes into buildings are religious brainwashed morons who have been hearing anti western propaganda and pieces from the Qur'an which are taken completely out of context. Not a single normal Muslim condones what these people are doing you know. Go ask a random Iraqi if he supports what happened on 9/11. And while we are talking about brainwashing, Christianity is heading the same way and THAT is what realy scares me. Christianity is the absolute largest modern world religion and this is what it's turning into. THAT's a terror threat, Jihad is nothing compared to this: |
Out of context my anus;
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/2/index.htm#6 http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pa...n-Violence.htm Call me when Christians start actually, oh I don't know, commiting 8975 attacks, many of which murder children and teenagers, in the course of 6 years, justifying their violence with traditional exegesis supported by all Christian jurispredence, and when proof is found Jesus was a pedophile. |
Havoc, that post contained the largest truck of absolute horse semen mixed with dung mixed with Ted Rall comics mixed with bovine shat I have ever seen. Jihad is nothing compared to this? Yeah, what about THIS, *removed personal attack*
*Predicted response* Cherry pickun Jeeyew! It prubly frum a kristun orgunaizashun! Itz invalid! *Response mode off* I am very tempted to ad hominem at this point, but I won't. |
You name more and more similarities between Island and Christianity, your making my job obsolete! :D. Are you finaly starting to see what I'm saying about propaganda? I KNOW this is an issue for Islam, I posted my vid to see if you knew it was ALSO an issue for christianity.
Also where in that passage EXACTLY does it say; KILL EVERYONE WHO DOESN'T BELIEVE AS YOU DO. From what I could gather it said that anyone not believing would surely meet a horrible faith. Not believing in Allah would turn out in doom for the unbeliever. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't christianity have a similar thing? If you don't believe in god you go to hell where you will be tortured and killed and hurt untill the end of time and then some? I think it's only reasonable to assume that the passages in the Qur'an imply a simmilar doom, especialy because it doesn't say anywhere that the followers are the ones to execute that doom. Like I said, its taken out of context. People like to read what they want to read and what strikes me as odd is that the people opposing the Islam like you read exactly the same thing as the Islamic extremists, thus condemming the entire religion instead of just one bad root. If you're gonna condem an entire religion by a few bad people then please start with christianity okay? They have a bad root just as much as the Islam does. |
I say theres evil people in all religions. Oh well. (Watches debate)
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2:1 Alif. Lam. Mim.
2:2 This is the Scripture whereof there is no doubt, a guidance unto those who ward off (evil). 2:3 Who believe in the Unseen, and establish worship, and spend of that We have bestowed upon them; 2:4 And who believe in that which is revealed unto thee (Muhammad) and that which was revealed before thee, and are certain of the Hereafter. 2:5 These depend on guidance from their Lord. These are the successful. 2:6 As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not. (2:6-7) Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. "Theirs will be an awful doom." Doom in the Quran For disbelievers a painful doom Is Allah kind and merciful? 2:7 Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom. Stop wailing "out of context" "all the same" like a record and accept the damn evidence. |
WHERE DOES IT SAY THE BELIEVER CAN KILL THE UNBELIEVER!!!!!
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9:1 Freedom from obligation (is proclaimed) from Allah and His messenger toward those of the idolaters with whom ye made a treaty. (9:1-4)
Allah and Muhammad are not bound by treaties made with idolaters (except for those who don't oppose Allah or Muhammad). 9:2 Travel freely in the land four months, and know that ye cannot escape Allah and that Allah will confound the disbelievers (in His Guidance). "Ye cannot escape Allah. Allah will confound the disbelievers." 9:3 And a proclamation from Allah and His messenger to all men on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage that Allah is free from obligation to the idolaters, and (so is) His messenger. So, if ye repent, it will be better for you; but if ye are averse, then know that ye cannot escape Allah. Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve, "Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve." Doom in the Quran For disbelievers a painful doom 9:4 Excepting those of the idolaters with whom ye (Muslims) have a treaty, and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you. (As for these), fulfil their treaty to them till their term. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty (unto Him). 9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. |
Dude you can keep quoting all you want but unless you give me a clear cut out piece from the Qur'an that says; And you shall surely kill absolutely anyone who offends your god or your family, I abide by the reason that the doom that Allah will bring upon you is in the same tradition as the christian hell.
All those things you are quoting here are EXTREMELY debatable. I don't see how you can say with 100% certainty that that is what it actualy says. --- BUT, I am not a bad guy so if you want your pound of flesh thats fine. Lets assume that the bloody thing actualy says you can kill whoever you like. Does that mean they have to do it? Yes? No? Maybe? No single modern Muslim will agree to killing you if you offend their religion. I can walk up to a Muslim down the street, call Allah a sheep fucking baby rapping faggot and he'll get pissed and probably wants to hurt me but killing me is an absolute no no. Not to mention it's against the law, not only here but also in Afghanistan and Iraq. Not everything in a damn book has to be taken literal, especialy not a book that has been around for thousands of years. I don't see christians stone gay people to death, do you? And THAT I know is in the bible. You CAN throw rocks at a gay guy untill he dies, that never happens anymore. Please tell me why? |
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Wow, that picture is so compelling! I have absolutely no argument against this!
Ending this discussion... you're obviously not mature enough to have a normal discussion about something. Go on and kill a Muslim, I hope they fly a plane into your house so you can be right :). Okay not very mature of me either but still, ending the discussion. Better things to do with my time. |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4223436.stm
From the leftist BBC. http://www.sodomylaws.org/ Notice that most of the red countries (where gay sex is illegal) are Islamic? |
Dude. Seriously.
OPEN UP YOUR EARS AND HEAR THIS: We are NOT saying that there are NO evil Muslims in the world. We are MERELY saying that NOT ALL Muslims are evil. |
Strawman. I NEVER said all Muslims are evil. My stance on Muslims is thus;
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities ... but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome. [The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pp. 248-50.] |
Pat, you're a homophobe and a racist. Shut the fuck up.
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Hey, Pat. You see those angry Arabian-looking people over there holding up burning flags and sh*t? The ones that claim they're Muslim? Well they're called extremests, which are people who don't follow their teachings properly and give their religion a bad name, much like you with your hatred of Islam as a whole rather than its extremests.
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How am a homophobe? Islam is homophobic, not me. It punishes homosexuality with death, for goodness sake.
Islam is not an inborn trait/race. You can choose to be Muslim. You can't choose to be black, ethnically Jewish, white, hispanic, gay, bisexual, asian. And your post is full of crap. These people are following their teachings properly, and you have provided jack shit evidence to back up your PC lala land garbage. |
Okay, so you're not homophobic because Islam is?
Your arguments get increasingly tawdry and nonsensical. Give it a break. |
I'm not homophobic, period. I don't hate or fear or be repulsed or view as evil or sinful gay people or homosexuality in any way.
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I'm still calling you racist (or at least ignorant) for referring to "ethnically Jewish". The closest you can get to a Jewish ethnicity is pointing out that most of the Jews where I live are descended from Eastern Europe. That kinda breaks down when you meet all the Middle Eastern and black African Jews in Israel...
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We're going on irrelevant ad hominems here. Let's stick to Islam, not Jews or gays.
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Yeah, you'd like that wouldn't you, Pat? Lets keep the more controversial bigoted opinions under the rug.
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You want to be able to have an opinion about Islam, fine. But don't for a minute think you know everything there is to know about the religion unless you have actualy touched a real life, properly translated Qur'an and read whats in there. First off all I know for a full 100% that you will come across parts you have read on the internet and go 'hey wait a minute, they slightly changed the quotes on those sites... how interesting.' Secondly I know for sure that after you read through the Qur'an you'd at least agree that while the Qur'an may be more defensive of it's god, many of the texts in there are extremely debatable. But here you are, shouting all these things about Islam, pulling things from biased websites and not knowing jack sh*t about what you're saying. So as the absolute master in religion bashing, let me teach you a little trick; Know your enemy. If I'm not mistaken it's even a passage in the bible somewhere. You can not truly hate something or be opposed to something unless you know all the details. I got my 'License to Bash Christianity' because I attended 10 years at a christian oriented school and I actualy did read the bible from start to finnish. If you want your 'License to Bash Islam' then go buy yourself a Qur'an, attend a Mosque or an Islamic school for a while and get to know the religion from the inside. Untill then, I do not want to hear another word about Islam from you. What you are doing is guessing and forming opinions from things other guessing people are saying. It's one thing to have an opinion. It's something totaly different to have a valid one. |
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I have read the Qur'an personally, Havoc. I have read the violent and hateful verses, and the good ones. I have read the Bible too, read quotes from fundie Christians and devout Muslims, I have piles of evidence from experts and Muslims backing up what I'm saying. I have news reports, Qur'anic quotes, Muslim quotes, Hadith quotes, accredited traditions, expert analogies, and even video evidence. I can show you these; News reports; See my sig (the site sources from mainstream media) Qur'anic quotes; http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/ Muslim quotes; http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004300.php Hadith quotes: http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatc...ves/009475.php Accredited traditions; http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/013367.php Video evidence: http://www.memritv.org/ |
Anyone else, Nate, Mutual, am I not clear enough or something? I think I was pretty clear when I said to stop quoting and blindly believing people... was I not clear to this guy?
Pat... I... Do... Not... Like... Quotes... From... Biased... Websites... Do I need to be more clear?! Furthermore I strongly doubt you read an actualy Qur'an. Because if you did you'd have seen a long time ago that the Qur'an and the Bible are practicaly the same book and you'd be preaching against religion right here beside me. But if you did read it, then I dunno how you read it but you did something wrong. Probably the same thing those extremeists did. |
Saying Bible/Qur'an are the same book is as dumb as saying Harry Potter and Artemis Fowl are the same book.
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The second Fowl book was by far the best.
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I'm not Racist, i have a Black TV, but i say we should shoot all the Brown's.
...including people with tan's, y'know, just to be on the safe side. |
Islam is not a race. There are white Muslims (John Walker Lindh), black Muslims (Louis Farakkhan), Arab Muslims (Osama bin Laden) and all other sorts. I don't care if Muslims are brown or white, I care if they are Islamic. Islamic means death cultist murderer. Not all Muslims are Islamic, but all Islamics are Muslims. Islamics follow the core of Islam, some Muslims are Muslims In Name Only.
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