Dipstikk, Facsimile was not referring to your post.

Nepharski, I understand. I'm not saying Christians in general are like that today, nor even a large minority. But there was a time when that was a prominent practice, and I think there are a few who have yet to give up on it.

I think the Ba'hai (sp?) faith has it nailed. As I understand it, they believe that all religions are basically different paths to the same god. And it makes sense, doesn't it? When you consider that the Christians, Jews, and Islams all worship the same god and simply give him different names, it seems believable that, at their core, all religions are basically paths to the same place.

True...true. Thank you. That was indeed a fair assessment.

Um...The Christian and Jewish God are quiet different from the Islamic diety (who, as a side notice, does encourage, "Convert or die!"). As for those of the Christian and Jewish faith, our God is one and the same, but Jews deny the divinity of Jesus, thus separating us.

Just thought I might set you upon the right path.*





*of information.

Well actually during the middle ages Islam was much more pluralist than Christianity. There is a principle in Islam that Christianity, Judaism and Islam all worship the same god and as such Christians and Jews are considered good people, at least better than pagans. How well Christians and Jews were treated depended on the country and the ruler. For instance, during the Golden Age of Spain (fourteenth century), when the Moors were ruling that country, it was the only place in Europe where Jews could live freely. In fact the second in command to the King at one stage was Jewish.

Then Spain was reclaimed by Christians, Isabella and Ferdinand expelled the Jews and started the spanish inquisition to get rid of any who had stayed.


Now you may ask why Islam is so anti-west these days. Its a complicated answer but the quick version is to say that over the centuries the conservative stream of Islam has won out, helped by Britain's support of the Saudis after WWI. At the same time the western world has been going in the opposite direction - free-er and less conservative about many things that Islam holds fundamental.

Christianity and Islam originated from Judaism, the first religion known to teach the belief in one God. Islam took such a different path because of their Muhammad prophet guy, and Christianity did because of Christ, obviously. As for Jews, well, they're still waiting for their messiah. Therefore, they all have the same God, just totally different perspectives because of certain figures (or lack there of).

EDIT: Sorry for contributing to more religious talk in this thread. Last time, I promise-ish. :D

Thank you much, folks. I've been flipping through Genesis for a while now gathering information, but now I don't need it. I did kind of get distracted. The Bible can be pretty hilarious. There's somebody in the genealogy section of my Bible named Jobab. I cracked up hard at that. There are all these biblical-sounding names and ya know "So-and-so begat This Guy and lived for..." and then the name Joe Bob. Takes one by surprise.

So you see, Nepharski? Christians, Jews, and Muslims all worship the same god. They just have different names for him. In fact, one can trace the split back to Abraham, who begat two sons, one by his wife and one by his wife's handmaid. Abraham and his legitimate son, Isaac, and the men of the house of Abraham, would become the first circumcised Jews, and the other son, Ishmael, would begin the bloodline eventually leading, as I understand it, to Muhammed and the beginning of Islam.

EDIT: I actually looked something up in the Bible. That was cool.
EDIT 2: Deities don't speak directly, if at all, to their believers. Do you mean, perhaps, Nepharski, that Muhammed encouraged the "Convert or die!" mentality?

So much for not saying anything else religiousy; good thing I put an "-ish" after "promise". All three religions are supposed to believe the words in the Bible/Torah/Koran are the actual words of God. Personally, I think at least some parts are more indirectly his... but I don't really care.

Hmm, perhaps there should be a religious thread that's not meant to be a debate. Nothing more than a mature discussion about anything related to any religion.

good idea. Is it possible to take out all the religiousy posts from this thread and into a new one?

Unfortunately, I don't think an open thread about religion on these forums could not turn into a debate. Besides, maybe a little debate isn't so bad every once in a while. Debates help me see multiple sides of the same argument.

I love that one Calvin and Hobbes cartoon where Calvin is seeing every object from every possible perspective because he accidentally saw his father's side of an argument. High larious.

Irrational fear: that I'm going to get bombed someday by some foreigners who are really fed up with the U.S. Of course, if relations ever got that bad between the U.S. and the rest of the world, I would have already escaped to Canada. So I guess I'm safe.

Oh, I know it wouldn't last peacefully for long, but meh. Debating isn't bad, but usually people get so wound up in being "right" that they stop really listening to what the other is saying. That's what I meant by discussion, so no one gets too pissed off. Everyone could nicely discuss their views and points, but unfortunately, some people aren't mature enough for that.

Calm down mate. I was not directing at you, it's just so happens that we are allowed to respond to other posts in a thread, despite what the last post is about. I'm sorry for any confusion.
On your topic, however, I agree, death is frightning, so I try not to dwell on it too much.

First and foremost, I would like to congratulate TheRaisin for taking time to read the manuscript he denies. It shows a fair and balanced mind, to actually attempt to understand that which you do not agree with. Shows you are willing to see all sides of the issues, as opposed to some blabbering narrow-minded, moron slacker (and believe me, I've know my fair share of blabbering narrow-minded, moron slackers. It relieves me, that you are not one of them).

I would also like to express my gratitude of your improved politeness, over last time (you remember).

NOTE: Yes, the Bible does contain some most...amusing names. You are without argument there.

Although Muslims will profess to believing in the same diety, this is both (for Christians, anyway), both untrue, and irrelevant...as I shall show.

Firstly, Christianity itself proclaims against war, whilst Islam promotes it. Where as the Crusades were a horrible act of hipocrasy (You know...Killing in the name of, "the Prince of Peace," and such), the Jihad is not as such. In fact, to my knowledge, the Koran declairs, "kill the infidel." Both the Bible and the Koran are (supposedly, shall we say) the direct beliefs of their respective religions, and the, "direct," proclaimation of their dieties. How can they be the same god, if one says, "peace," and one says, "kill?"

Even if they were the same diety, Christianity (in truth) renders that possibility irrevelant anyway. For the simple sake of argument, let us assume that Christianity is the one way. Islam denies the divinity of Christ, as does Jeudism. According to Christianity, Christ is divine, and must be recognized as such. Failure to do so results in, dare I say it, loss of salvation.

I shall continue later.





*Or however the Hades you spell his name.

Yes, Raisen, I commend you too if I have not already said that. You're a very respectable guy.

Tell that to Dubya. :p

Eh... :confused: I'm guessing you're basing this on the New Testament, which message is based on peace and love. But gosh, the Old Testament... I wouldn't be surprised if there's more things about killing in order to "purge the evil from among us". No joke, there's one chapter that has "You must purge the evil from among you" at the end of every verse, giving a reason to stone someone. Spooooky stuff... Sorry, I'm just having a bit of fun with this subject now.

Just so this isn't completely off topic, I'm terrified of praying mantises. My grandfather used to throw them on me and laugh when I was a wee little Ambi. *shudder* Oh, and if anyone ever asks me to hold out my hand so they can give me something, I freak out. My loving Granddad used to try to put other types of nasty insects in my hands, telling me he had candy for me.

Interestingly enough, there is a verse hidden somewhere amongst the books of the Old Testiment, proclaiming that stoning is a suitable punishment for slackers.

*Suddenly, in devine justice, Sligs everywhere drop dead.*

Yes, I am basing my argument off the New Testiment. The general concept, is that Jesus died, and ergo paid for our sins. Before his sacrifice, sinners had to be redeemed via animal sacrifice, or, "paying," for their sin, and I don't mean cash. Jesus died, so that that sinners could cast off their sin, and sin no longer, and be free of it...as opposed to getting stoned on the first sign of, shall I say, "evil activities." In Christianity, the concept is that no sin(s) is/are too dark and terrible to be forgiven...assuming they are halted as well (So none of this saying your sorry and doing it yet again nonsense).

On a side note, I am currently working on a guide to the Bible...just to explain why I believe exactly what I believe.

Yep, slacking is one of those "seven deadly sins" if I'm not mistaken. Nephy, I was just checking that you were basing it off the NT and reminding you of God's well-known wrath and whatnot in the OT. I'm a fellow Christian, remember? No need to explain the significance of Christ's death, silly.

It was for all who come after, who do not know.

Nepharski, I believe you have uncovered an extremely good point. Here's what I think: until God descends from the heavens and starts handing out copies of his book, "The Gospel According to God", we're not going to get the gospel truth as spoken by God himself. Humans twist quotes, distort facts, hide bits of information, and, when it comes right down to it, lie through their teeth. You can't say that because a religion advocates something, their god advocates it as well. The Christian god is probably looking down from heaven right now, pulling his hair out and saying things like "That's not what I meant! Who the hell keeps misquoting me?!". Granted, there are some glaring differences between Christianity and Islam. But that doesn't necessarily mean the gods are different, just that the people see things differently.

Tell that to Dubya! *collapses on floor laughing*

Thanks for the kind words, folks. I have fewer apprehensions about what I say when I'm conversing with people I don't know via the Internet, and therefore I often fear people get the wrong impression of me, so I still try to keep a fair level of integrity. I don't know you and I certainly never will, but it would still bother me if you all thought I was an asshole.

Easy, it's all made up.
ALCAAAAAAAR! Please wave your magic wand and make this debate not here. It's gone well offtopic.

Yes, let us get back to the irrational fears.

New Idea: I'm going to start a new thread of Irrational Fears.

Can a mod please close this one to avoid confusion.

I'm closing this because there is a new version of this thread, in which there is no spam or complete off-topic-ness.

The new thread can be found here: http://www.oddworldforums.net/showthread.php?t=10778

Alcar...