Ok, new topic! Democrat or Republican? I'm not sure if you people on the forums have a political opinion, but here we go!

No, you still haven't actually answered the questions we've put forward. Just three little points.

Okay, I think we need to draw a family tree here. Let's take this step by step:
1. God creates Adam
2. God creates a woman
3. After some tomfoolery with the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, Eve (as is her name after eating the fruit) gives birth first to Cain, then Abel
4. Cain kills Abel
5. Then Cain lay with his wife, who gives birth to Enoch

Right, we got there. Here's my question: Where did Cain's wife come from? The only other female mentioned is Eve. That means both Cain and his wife come from the same mother.

You still haven't actually explained why. I understand that you personally believe it is the word of God, and I'm cool with that, I'm not trying to bash that. I'm also not trying to say it's not the word of God - just consider me a critic. The only historical evidence to suggest that the Bible is the word of God is the Bible itself. Now if I were to alter my own copy of the Bible to say that I am another of God's sons come down to Earth (merely an example, I don't mean anything by it) and then destroyed all other copies of the Bible and replaced them with my new version, people would probably be rather upset. Let's skip a few hundred years, to a future where my revised Bible is the only Bible there is. If people then took a 100% literal view of the text, they'd believe I was a second Messiah, and would use exactly the same arguement that you're using now, which is quite akin to, "I'm right, look it says right here, see?" We now that they'd be wrong, but because I manipulated the Bible they don't know any better.

Now in the past, the Bible has been such an exquisit item, whose circulation was strongly controlled by the Church. They had every ability in the world to change the texts in the same way I described above. There's more historical evidence to say that this is possible than there is that God dictated the Bible. You can't deny, but I understand if you don't believe it.

Myself, I take a metaphorical view of most of the Bible. I believe the text was inspired by God, not dictated.

I forget what the third thing was. Maybe there was no third thing. Nevermind.

I've no idea what Republican is. It's an American-only thing I think, although it probably has its routes in the British parties. I'm guessing Conservatory, but truthfully I've no idea. I don't like the idea of having X number of predefined parties, anyway, it means you can't mix and match ideologies. It also means it's not true democracy; but take a look at the way the world is run, and it's obvious anyway. I'm not a politically-minded person.

How about we say this: If you answer this question, we will drop the topic.

How do you know?

As do i. I do believe there was a Moses. I also believe that somebody played a cruel prank on him with the whole 'setting-a-bush-on-fire' and such...

Why don't you read either -
Darwins thingy on Evolution
The book of Satan

What about when they're 13+? Do they still have to abide by those rules? Shouldn't we be teaching our children to think for themselves and to encourage that new thinking instead of believing everything everybody says?

Giving your child a choice and allowing it to boss you around are two completly different things. If a child doesn't want to eat a certain food...will you force said food down its throat?

Pinky, i did about it in RE for 4 years!! My family drummed it into me since i was the age of 5!! I've watched Religious programmes at Christmas that go on about it!! I don't need to read the Bible to know the basic outline of the story!! Pinky, please explain to me how 2 people are capable of creating over 100,000,000,000,000 people without delving into incest!?!

Grapes of Wrath (what the Hell is that anyway??) does not have a cult following. Does not have countless people dedicating their lives to it and does not other sources depicting the story (i assume).

And then he would go to Hell. Because that would be prejudging me...if he were to find out why i felt the way i did...then fine...but just thinking i'm that would be dabbling in prejudice.

I don't feel shame by the by. And so far nobodies "blown me" thus far. How about you try it, eh Pinky? Come on...blow me...

Pinky, i do listen. You just avoid the question or answer it but without in the shittiest possible way. Like when i say "How do you know the Bible is the wantingness of God?" and you reply with "Because it is". That's not answering the question. The question is "How do you know?". So please answer how you know...

I agree, but the argument won't end until the Bible changes (yet again, might i add) and makes Homosexuality ok (which is going to happen by the by).

Well whilst i'm on my death bed i'm going to get forgiveness for all past sins from random religious people...that'll sort me out with minimum effort. I'll still have had fun. Whereas none of you would have.

*Drops on knees and sobs* BUT HOW!?! HOW DAMMIT!! HOW DO YOU KNOW!?!

Erm...i don't know which is left-wing...

See. See how many people want to bask in your knowledge of knowing-howness!?!

By the by, the Bible has been changed. It used to class wearing clothes from different fibres a sin...is it still a sin? Man changed it so that it wasn't? But did God? Who knows? You lot may all still be going to Hell...

Subject change - Corperal (or Capital, i forget now) should it be allowed. Actually, lets use both. If a child does something wrong should we be allowed to hit it (not with a basball bat or a knuckle duster, just a slight tap) or not? And should people be executed?

There is actualy a lot of scientific evidence that proves the Bible is a historical text. So much in fact, I don't know where to begin! I have to go to a softball game in a few minutes, so I won't be able to put up an explanation till' later. Remember.....I'm not one to shove anything down anothers throat, but clearly you guys are really interested in this subject, so who am I to withhold knowledge to those who thirst after it? Later kidz!

I've answered that question over ten times in the other religious topics on this board. I would not say it again. Plus, if you want to know the answer, search for it on this board or search for it on google.com

Can you read? I've just answered that question. I'm 18 and I live with my parents. I still have to abide by their rules. If I'm 18 and live on my own then that's different. Why should I argue with my parents, when they are the ones paying the bills and such? If I don't like their rules then I can get out. Plus I wasn't taught to believe in everything everyone says.

That's like giving a baby a choice. Will you give your 3 year old keys to your car? "Mom, it's my choice!." "Okay son!".

No. You said "Of course because little kids have no choice.". Little kids are not 13. 13 year olds are teenagers, my dear.

Yes. But the whole thing is do we force something upon a child? Abiding by the rules is one thing, being forced to do something/go somewhere is a completly different thing.

Where you taught to think/decide things for yourself?

No, i would give him/her a choice though. Why would my 3 year old want to drive? If my child didn't want to eat a certain food. Fine. If it didn't want to do a certain thing, such as go and play in the garden. Fine. So long as it's not doing it any harm, why do i care what choice it makes? So long as it's learning independance and feeling it has a choice unlike some kind of dictatorship you seem to have had set for you.

I took Pinky's advice and searched Google. I found a website were a man seems to believe he has proof of God being real. Something about Depression making the bones thinner and if you believe in God he will help you. He stated this -

"A merry heart doeth good like a medicine; but a broken spirit drieth the bones."

Followed by -

"A merry heart really does do good like a medicine and depression really does dry up the bones!!"

Along with some explanation. However, as far as i can tell that's a whole lot of shit. You could easily say that Wicca, Witchcraft or Paganism is helping, because in these religions you summon the energy within and use that to do your deeds...

By the by, it's worth noting that Jesus and Lucifer are both called 'The Morning Star' in the Bible...

Proof that i am hung like a Horse

I've also found a website that states abit about the Pope being the Anti-Christ. It makes sense aswell...

"What better facade than a “church” to cover the antichrist’s real identity? The Bible tells us that Satan, the devil, “deceives the whole world.” (Revelation 12:9). Everyone in the world has been deceived by the devil and by his agent, the antichrist."

Proof my penis does, indeed, talk Latin

I also skipped over to Google as soon as Pinky suggested it, but was a little more fruitful. I found a nice biased site that presented lots of lovely circumstancial evidence. I won't give the link, because I'm still waiting for Pinky to actually come up with any of this stuff herself.

Oh, and, "Because it says in there," is not one of their 'proofs'. :)

Regarding capital punishment, no, I disagree with it. Completely. If some maniac has got a factory full of hostage and a pretty impressive array of explosives at his finger tip, then obviously there's one solution that shines above the rest, but with all these murderers and whatnot, if they've caught the buggers, they should try reformation instead of jumping to retribution.

Corporal punishment, yeah, sure. Parents should be allowed to discipline their children physically, so long as they don't go over the top, which is just common sense. I personally think corporal punishment should be reintroduced into the Law, such as they used to have: mostly whipping wrists and similar no-damage-yes-pain deterrence methods. If the bastards try to sue for damages, take away their house and see if they like being homeless, cheeky gits.

I found another one about the Bible prophecising shtuffs that had come true. All i could think of however was Nostradamus...

On Capital punishment i believe that it is ok. If somebody's got life in jail then all they're going to be doing is clogging up the jail itself, why not just execute them and let up some space?

Same goes for Paedophiles. If they're want to molest a child then they're going to have to face the consequences. Its because our Law is so laid back that we have quite alot of crime in the first place. If we were to show Paeds that they will be experimented on by Pharmaceutical/Cosmetic companies or killed painfully for their crimes then maybe they will stop. Aswell as murderers who commit mass murder or murder for no specific reason.

And i agree with Max on the other one.

No, I could never want anything to die, although I love your pharmaceutical/cosmetic test subject idea - humiliate the criminal and cut down, hopefully eliminate, the need for animal testing. Humiliation punishment is something I didn't mention. We could bring back the stocks for petty criminals if it weren't for the inevitable people throwing shards of broken glass at their faces.

EDIT: For freeing up space in prisons, I think imprisonment in such places is not the best solution to the problem in a lot of the cases, hence my desire to explore alternatives, like corporal and humiliation.

Ummm, back on that last topic... I think that because GOD sent two people only, and they had kids, there was no way the couldn't go into insest. But, since it was GODS plan, it wasn't considered insest. Is that good enough? Or are you going to be sceptical? If we answer all your Questions about this, what will you do with the knowledge that you recieve? Will you turn away from your EVIL ways?How about this...If we can answer all you questions, then you guys have to read the BIBLE all the way through and go to church for a month! :fuzgrin: You game?

I'd be game for reading the Bible if answered our questions completely, but I'm going through a tough piece of life right now, and I need to work on getting my work ethic and creativity back. Plus our ways aren't evil, so there :p

I don't think it could be 'not considered' as incest, since it complies with the definition of incest. However, God could have allowed it for that one occassion, since all sex is a sin, but excusable if it is to have children (or so the Rev tells us), that would have been similar. There should be a footnote somewhere saying: "WARNING: do not attempt to reproduce the reproduction of Adam and Eve. Failure to comply with God's wishes can lead to inbreeding, social exclusion and eternal damnation." Just a thought.

I was just joking about the "EVIL ways" thing. But anyway, lets put it this way... lets say you were stranded on a desert isle with a beutiful woman. You and her are the only two people alive in the whole world. And it's GODS plan for you and this beutiful women to repopulate the planet. What would you do? Would you have kids and tell them " Yep, we're the only people alive, but don't commit insest!" "But dad, we're supposed to repopulate the whole planet, how are we gonna do that without commiting insest?" So, here's the question, If your in that position(highly doubtful) would you let your children repopulate the planet or not?

A.Yes
Or
B.NO!

If we're the only two humans left on the planet, why do we have to be on a desert island? Not that I'm complaining. Also, if we were truely on a desert island, how could we sustain ourselves? The only food would be raw fish (desert means no trees or scrub, none of that means no fire to cook the fish). Unless you scrap the desert island idea. Okay, enough fun.

I really doubt I'm important enough ever to be placed in such a situation, but if it did come to that, I'd almost certainly feel compelled to allow incest. That doesn't mean it's not a sin, it just means it's necessary.

I'm going to reply to the whole gay thing. I'm sorry Grig, I can't support you on this one. EVERYONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO LIVE THE WAY THEY LIKE AS LONG AS THEY CAUSE NO INTENTIONAL OR PHYSICAL HARM TO ANOTHER PERSON. The fact is that it is no ones business what anyone does. By the way, how can any love actually be considered evil when there is so much hatred in the world. Do you know what the highest suicide rate in america is? Gay teen christians. Because they have been told that they are evil. Any kind of bigotry for any reason is disgusting and a sign of true ignorance. Ask yourself one question. How does this effect me? err eh ummmm. Yeah. Thats right. It doesn't.

There was a subject of importance a couple of years ago that included teaching homosexuality in schools. Do you believe this should happen? It was stopped by some woman. But the people who did 'The truth about Gay animals' took a video tape of all these animals performing sexual acts and played it to her and said "By your logic we should do what animals do...well, animals can be gay." and she was all "Um...no...no...no they're not. Turn it off. I don't want to see that...turn it off and leave my office" and i was all "Silly old Cow, shouldn't you be fertilizing the ground by now??".

But as OANST said the highest suicide rate is by the Teen, Christian, Queers...so if we educate that Homosexuality is normal and not an evilness that occurs or not weird, maybe the suicide rate would go down as would Homophobia and hate.

And for the people who dislike the Queer lifestyle, do you support Homophobia? (i'm not getting at you, i'm just curious).

Okay, I wouldn't call homosexuals evil........that's downright mean. Everyone is God's child in a sense and is therefore redeemable. We all do bad things and God can help turn us onto the right path. I don't belive in homosexuality, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to deliberately taregt homosexuals with cruelty. My sister was at a waterpark and these guys(she didn't know) were harrasing a Gay couple and tossing stones at them in one of the pools. My sister told those jerks to leave em' alone and she was supremly ticked at how horrible they could treat these people that weren't doing anything wrong. I think it's totally dumb how people say, "Your evil...........You must die," when it is totally not their place to judge at all. People like that think they're "stopping evil" are actually just starting it up themselves.

I personally believe the Ark and the Chariot story on a certain level. But it still doesn't prove that God is real. It does believe that the Bible was written on some true events though. The whole Moses thing was proved to be the events of a Volcanoe erupting. From the Red water, to the flies, to the boils etc. The only thing that they didn't explain was the Death of the first born, which means it may have been added to the Bible to exaggerate it and make it seem more extrodinary.

The Ark thing could have been anything. It would be appreciated if you do scan those books in, but in the end it takes faith to believe its the actual Ark. As far as you know it could be some driftwood from that era. I don't think the whole world flooded either, i think it may have just been a local thing instead of a global thing. But in any case didn't Noah have just his family on the Boat? And didn't God wipe out the entirity of the population of Earth? So doesn't that mean that once again God is encouraging Incest to take place?

Please post more scientific proof.

WHY OLD AND NOT SO TASTY!!! WHY!!!!:crying: I'm not mean to gay people, I just don't aprove of being gay. Don't hate me now old and not so tasty!:crying: Oh well.

Jacob, you never said that if we answered your questions you'd read the BIBLE all the way through and go to church. Will you do that if we answer your q's? :fuzconf:

I thought that what oddguy posted was good evidence! :fuzmad: I don't think that they would add something to the BIBLE to make it more exiting, cause that's just dumb! The BIBLE is a book of history, it's not Lord of the Rings, although they're both good!

Well, Pinky... I suppose he will burn the City of Dis. And knowing you, you would probably laugh at him.
Were these wheels actually found in the Red Sea? If so, I hate to call your fault, but Moses crossed the Sea of Reeds (which was most likely a deep, marshy bay between Egypt and other middle eastern countries), not the Red Sea. That was one of the many typos that occured when translating the Holy Bible from Greek to English. If not, than there is little proof that the "pharoh" was actually chasing Moses at the time.

Your relative's findings on the ark and Soddom and Gammorah are indeed very interesting, but you would think that finds like that would be all over the news, and most people would have heard of those discoveries by now. I'm not saying these things aren't true... it's just a little hard to swallow, that's all.
I have liberal/green party views. And to quote Lewis Black--
"What's the difference between democrats and republicans? Democrats SUCK, and republicans BLOW!"

On a final note (and possible another topic), I don't consider the Bible the word of God, I consider it a work inspired by the word of God. A more fitting title would be "Word of the Saints" or "Word of the Lamb." Just not word of God. God didn't write it. People take it too seriously at times as well; it's a guide to help live your life, not blue prints. I also believe it's in a good need of updating. (Not like that has stopped anyone from changing the Bible before. Hell, Catholic Dogma practically becomes the "word of god" anyway.)

It doesn't really prove that the Bible is the book of God though, it just proves that people have collected some random goings ons and placed it in the Bible. I think the Bible would have more of a backup if it had "And Jesus said love everyone and thing except gays" or "And so-and-so is wrong" but it just states it, probably through people adding such a thing throughout time and because they believed in God, they didn't want to put "And Jesus said..." and so just added "And so-and-so said Gay is wrong".

Also, so far you've produced nothing else that states the Bible is the book of God. That is one of the main pieces of evidence i want. Not whether certain occurances stated in the Bible happened, because Nostradamus has done that, but other evidence, other than the Bible, that says the Bible is, in itself, the Book of God.

And Grig the Slig, how about i believe the Bible stuff and help defend certain parts of it if you answer my questions. I may try extra hard to read it aswell, but you have to answer my questions fully, non-avoidably and to everyones satisfaction.

1 - What other source other than the Bible states that the Bible is the book of God?

2 - Where does Jesus say that "Everyone is to be loved, but Gays, Transgendereds and Transsexuals should be exiled from Church and will burn in the bowels of Hells fury."?

3 - Certain sins in the Bible have been taken out and are no longer a sin. These are not because of God wanting it that way, but because of public pressure. Some of these sins are wearing clothing made from different fibres and growing different crops in the same fields. These are punishable by death and also will see you fall into the abyss of Hell. So, are these still sins? God still sees them as a sin, but the Bible has taken them out, whats going on? Also, when Homosexuality and the sinfulness of that gets taken out from the Bible, will you except its time for your attitudes to it to change?

Other people may have other questions...

Regardless of whether God is real or not I question his policies. I don't understand why homosexuals should be stoned in the street. Neither do I understand why someone who has done no real harm to anyone and who has tried to do good by people should be condemned to hell for not being sure that he is real. The Christian god is a spitefull and angry god. I fear him. And I refuse to follow an entity with such malice. By the way he has lied. God said that he is omnipotent. That he can do anything. Can god create a rock to big for god to move? If he does then he can't move the rock. If he doesn't......well, thats self explanitory. It doesn't sound as cool to say that he can do 98 percent of things does it? I'm going to reiterate what I said before. No form of love can be wrong. There is absolutely no reason for you to disaprove of homosexuality.It hurts nothing. In fact I do believe it helps the population problem. Anyone who says that they hate or disaprove of being gay is either extraordinarily stupid or has only looked at it through the eyes of their upbringing. It is time to evolve ideas people. Become stronger of mind. You will find yourself much happier.

Jacob, I'm glad to see that you are trying to find answers. I have a packet, if I can find it, which explains and has evidence on how the Bible is the word of God. I will type it as soon as I find it.

Old manuscripts that were found. Lemme find that packet...

It's impossible for you to love everyone. Only Christ has the power to do that. We can only try to love our enemies and treat people with kindness. Jesus also said, to deliver yourself from any kinds of evil too. If someone were to be evil to you, you can say "bye" respectfully and leave that person alone. It doesn't say in the bible that God hates gays. God hates the sin, not the person. It saids in the bible not to judge anyone and that would include gays and such. I'm not trying to judge you or make you feel bad, but it does say in the bible that if you are gay, lesbian, trisexual or whatever, you cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

I think your confused by that because some of those sins were brought up through cultural purposes. Back then, a man can have ten wives. That was their culture but God thought of it a sin. Man didn't think it was a sin, they thought it was normal because it was their culture. People get confused because they think the bible contradicts itself. People tend to forget that there is culture in the bible. Like in the New Testament, Timothy 2:9 states that a women has to dress modestly, without so many jewlery and the women can't have braided hair. The people thought that is a women were to wear alot of jewlery or braids, she would have alot of pride. It was their culture, not ours. You can wear alot of jewlery and braids if you want. We still go by the dressing modestly rule because it's common sense. You would not dress like a prostitute. when you go to church.

Jacob, what sins do you mean have been cancelled out? Like what?

Although I am still not believing, I must say 'good work' to oddguy for actually trying to answer our questions. Unlike Pinky.

True dat. Big props ta oddguy. Oddguy in da hizouse.

*raises roof and lets the dogs out*

Your the only one who is acting like a loser on this board right now. I've answered questions, plus didn't I just say that I was going to find a packet that I have to prove that the bible is the word of God? Plus, what are those quotes for on my replies? They aren't there for decoration yo. I believe you can't read at all! Actually, I believe you don't even read the replies at all bascially.

Plus, Good work to oddguy and Grid too:D

I hate to tell you this but you can't prove anything about god. For proof you need a thing to be logical. Nothing about the existence of god is logical. I'm not saying he isn't real. Logic shows it to be improbable though.

I just try to answer Q's without getting mad or anything, because hey......like I've said before, I don't try to force my beliefs on anyone. In the end it all comes down to what you think. There are people who have evidence for the Bible, scholars I might add, and there are other scholars as well who try to dissprove the bible. What it all comes down to for me is.....faith. Some things in the Bible can't be explained in scientific tearms, but are very easy to understand in tearms of spirtuality.

I think when Jacob talks of sins taken out, he's talking about Old testament. The New testament......that's why it's called NEW, had a lot of different events take place with the coming of Christ. We don't have to sacrifice lambs anymore to cleanse sins, because the Lamb sacrifce was simbolic of Christ anyway. Now we don't do that, because Christ atoned for the sins of the world and it's through him that repentance is possible.

God isn't an angry guy.....It's Men who makes the mistake. God doesn't hate anyone, just the sin. I actually have some friends that're homosexual and they're really cool people! I don't hate them at all and I still love God.

I think that GOD still loves Homosexual people, he just doesn't love the sin of homosexuality,he doesn't like sin at all, but he is always wanting us to repent and he'll forgive us like that! *snaps fingers* I really like all of you guys, even Mac!:fuzsmile: I really want to prove to you that the BIBLE is the book of GOD, but being the doubters that some of you guys are, will you really beileve us if we prove to you that the BIBLE is the book of GOD? Cause if not, I really don't want to waist my time. And I'm sorry if you see this as "forcing" my belifs on you, i'm just trying to give you another prospective.

The events of the Bible took place there is a lot of historical evidence. Mount Sini for instance where Moses went up and brought the ten comandments down. The actual stone tablets that were smashed and recreated and placed in the Arc of the Covenent does exist.

There are tons of evidence of these events all over the middle east. The parting of the Red Sea is really based on a mathimatical science. It was demenstraited in a lab that water can be parted.
There is an underwater ridge in the Red Sea and with enough wind and I do mean the strongest known wind there is, the water rose up and backed its way over this ridge leaveing the other half dry so that the Iseral lights would cross. They demonstraited a miniture version of this effect. Now critics will say its all a myth and not true. The Bible is a Myth nothing like that can't ever happen.

Ok let me challenge you here on the existence of God. The Universe is scientifically nature at its best right? Well in science things don't just happen from nothing there always has to be some sort of driveing force to cause something to occure. Thats typical nature. Ok now how was the Universe created?
Science says the Big Bang. Well ok now I have another question what driveing force caused the Big Bang? Critics will say the expanding atoms or gasses and such. Ok but you dident answer my question what drives those things to happen? What sort of force can cause atoms to do that create a big Bang, create a Universe what sort of unknown power is capable behind the motives of Nature? Why do they move? Why are they so attracted to each other? Why? Is the question. You ask any aithiest these question and they can't answer because they know that driveing force is God. Your scared when you are an aithiest and you don't want to believe because you don't want to except the truth. Go on say your things your theories your only proveing your self wrong because you can't answer why. And when you think you have that answer the question still remains why and what is it that causes things? Whats the motive of it? How? Simply the answer to this profound idea is God. God is the driveing force of everything.

You who don't believe will come to realise that and really feel guilty. God never intended Man to screw up but he did. And God knew we were going to do that. Why he dident stop it is something that is even more amazeing. If Adam never ate that apple we would be robots. But since that happen we suddenly have choice bad and good ones thus resulting in to what everything is today. Adam and Eve screwed up and that alone has made the human race into what it is today. Say your theories and your ideas but God knows the true answers on why. And if you have faith in Jesus Christ and follow his teachings you will have that knowledge also. I am refering to non believers by the way so don't take offense!