I was a kid. I also had to get a new computer assembled from scratch with the new OS.

I must have had a lucky copy, then ._. Or a pretty compatible hardware. I don't recall having any BSOD on my ME

I won it from Vodafone Portugal on a contest.

I think that this simply isn’t true any more. A few years ago maybe, but every major browser is pushing updates on users and are supporting HTML5 standards; more and more websites are adopting HTML5 (Youtube and Vimeo for example); major operating systems like iOS and Windows 8 are either refusing to support Flash or are sidelining it; and even Adobe themselves are moving to repurpose Flash for purposes other than web design – and they discontinued their Android Flash Player.

The surge in smartphone and tablet web browsing makes Flash more antiquated every day, and the internet is adapting to a more device-agnostic position to compensate.


Eh, fair enough. I’m no expert on Android so I was just going off what Nepsotic said.


Customisation just isn’t all it’s cracked up to be, I feel. You can spend forever fine-tuning your device to do everything from tell you when to eat to burn toast, or you can get a device which just goes and does what you need it to with no fuss.

Everyone’s boat is different, and mine floats on simpler waters.


God forbid a company that makes hardware defends its hardware designs.


http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

It’s an interesting perspective, actually.


iOS still doesn’t support Flash, what are you talking about.

What do you mean "defends it's hardware designs"? They had a go because of a screen bump animation that was similar to iOS's, they're a bunch of cunts.

Unless every flash site that I visited already has a HTML5 version, it does support it. Everyone says no, even tech experts, so I'll believe them, I guess.

Not quite.


All I can find is some reports of Adobe coming up with some kind of middleware solution. iOS still does not natively support Flash.

Dunno then. Not that I really care either.

It’s probably a case of most websites coming to terms and adopting alternative solutions.

Most likely.

I would say "not taking the computer to the limit", because my computer hardware back in Windows ME was among the best stuff you could get in its time like for example a NVIDIA GeForce 256 and a Pentium III CPU.

Actually, no, I believe I had a pretty decent rig back then. Maybe not a GeForce card yet, but a Voodoo 3d accelerator

There are a lot more websites using Flash than just Youtube and Vimeo. Until every website supports HTML5, I'd prefer to have the option than be stuck with a broken icon. And not even Youtube fully supports HTML5 yet; not every video is available if you're using the HTML5 player.

And, as I said, HTML5 hasn't been standardised and isn't ready for primetime. It's currently adequate for video playing but I'm yet to see any sites that are using it for funky user interfaces like they do with Flash.


You've drunk the Apple Cool Aid if you really think that's true. This isn't about finetuning; this is about having options for dramatically different user interfaces/experiences.

Apple has lost almost every design patent suit against Samsung. The big legal case that they won in America was based on software patents, specifically the scroll-bounce effect. And in the time since they won that suit, that patent has been invalidated so Samsung will probably win on appeal.

Here's some not so good comedy-y thing.


Not really comedy, but who cares...

I’m not trying to say that every website out there has thrown out Flash, my point was that a huge majority have and the ecosystem for internet-connected devices is rapidly pushing Flash out. Yes, you will still run across site which use it, but they’re few and far between, and the number is dwindling.

Anecdotally, it took about a week or two from me getting my new computer to actually install Flash Player on it. I just didn’t run across anything that made me need to install it in that time.


HTML5 may not be standardised yet but it is totally ready for primetime. Every major browser now has HTML5 compatibility for the majority of new elements, including CSS3 and video tags.

It’s not standardised, but browsers support it and developers are using it. People are moving away from funky Flash website interfaces because mobile and tablet users simply will not see those websites and because the combination of HTML5, CSS3 and Javascript can do crazy things (see: Beercamp 2012 and 2011).


I love that having a differing opinion gets me dismissed as being an Apple sheep.

Having dramatically different user experiences is not always a good goal. The key with user experience is consistency and familiarity; you can very quickly lose that by offering too many options, and the wider Android ecosystem is a good example of that.


The Verge’s coverage only mentions their losing cases in Japan and the UK. I haven’t heard about any other cases, what have I missed?

I want you all to shut up now.

Second.

A lot have, yes. Most of the bigger sites have, yes. But it's not a majority.

Like I said, the stuff for videos has been pretty well supported, but the interface stuff hasn't. Try accessing the more experimental sites in Chrome, Firefox and IE and see how differently they handle the code.

Because you're paraphrasing the sort of thing that Steve Jobs used to say and he was full of shit on that topic. Apple's philosophy is 'You must do things our way because we're smarter than you and we know how you should be doing it'. Google's philosophy is to give everyone a usable, convenient interface, but then to give the power users a Settings button so they can change things to their liking.

I'm not sure, but I think you may be talking about how every manufacturer develops their own skin for Android. First of all, they're not as different as you think. Secondly, who cares? For the two years that I had my old phone, everything was internally consistent. For the first week I had my new phone, it took me a while to get used to it, then everything was internally consistent. Variations between manufacturers or handsets are irrelevant.

But in case you were talking about giving options for apps; that's a ridiculous point. Just like what I was saying before about basic users and power users; the fact that you can choose a different app if you like doesn't complicate matters. My mum has an Android phone and she couldn't care less that there are ten other browsers out there. But I do, and I installed several of them on my phone at once, compared them and kept the ones I want. This is about giving people choice, not forcing choice down their throats.

This is what I was talking about with respect to the rubber-banding patent invalidated.

Dolphin. I like Dolphin. Opera can go fuck itself. Do you use Dolphin, Nate?

I did, until I upgraded to Android 4.0 and then I installed Chrome.

Customisation is a fantastic aspect of Androids. My phone is an absolute piece of shit and has the worst touchscreen imaginable. Because I can customise so many aspects of my Android I actually have a mostly usable phone. I swapped through a few web browsers before finding that Miren gave the best performance. I played around with interface tweaks that make my phone less frustrating to use. All of this was free.

It all comes down to personal preference. If you like iOS then there's no reason not to buy Apple. If you don't and are prepared to spend some time playing around with some apps from the Android store then you're bound to find something that works for you.

I beg to differ. The fact that the biggest sites out there have adopted these standards means a huge chunk of the web is moving forwards. Remember that those bigger sites account for huge swathes of traffic, not to mention how their competitors will surely make the same moves, if they haven’t already.

And every day more sites are being revamped with support for new tech, and most new sites being created have that support built in. It’s telling when web developer sites like Smashing Mag are talking all the time about how to leverage HTML5 and other modern standards.


Every time browsers update they add more support. Webkit browsers are in the lead currently because they’ve historically had faster and more frequent update cycles, but we can already see that changing. The latest Firefox has added further support (such that the Beercamp sites I linked to now display identically), IE10 has added further support, and Chrome is basically the developer’s choice when it comes to support (don’t know how many times I’ve seen tech demos marked with “best viewed in a Webkit browser”).


Apple’s philosophy has made them the darling of tech reviewers, tech awards and consumers. They excel at coming up with simple, intuitive interfaces which people get, and I don’t think the Android ecosystem offers that in the same respect.

Yeah Steve Jobs was never the most charming guy on the block but to dismiss him and Apple as full of shit is to ignore exactly how well-received their efforts have been.


It’s not just about internal consistency though, is it? I’m talking about ecosystems.

Android excels at giving users choice, but that gets taken to ridiculous extremes. Every damn phone has a different handset design with vastly different specs (which often manifests in sluggish, irritating low-end phones); every manufacturer sees fit to ship their phone with their own custom UI; and a staggering amount are either running outdated versions of the operating system or won’t receive OS updates at all.

One of the most confusing things in the world is having to use someone else’s phone. Everyone has different apps, different home screen layouts, different customisations, different operating systems, different interfaces. That confusion is minimized if there are similarities – for example, if your friend uses the same OS as you you’ll be more immediately familiar. But Android’s ecosystem is so rife fragmentation that this is not even a guarantee.


No, I wasn’t talking about apps, although I do think that having a set of user interface guidelines like Apple does can greatly improve an ecosystem’s user-friendliness.


Well I hadn’t heard about that, will be interesting to see where the case goes now. Let’s not forget, though, that the case didn’t just cover that one patent – other software patents, hardware patents and trade dress were also involved.

You're missing the point! There are still sites that use Flash, so I want it on my phone. Flash may well be a bag of shite, but having it is still better than not having it. And you can criticise it for being buggy and inefficient, but it's only being buggy and inefficient whilst it's opening those sites. The rest of the time my phone is unaffected.


What's your point? They may be working on it, but it's still not there yet.



I didn't say that Apple don't make good interfaces. I'm criticising the 'It's my way or the highway' philosophy. There's never just one way to solve any problem.

It's seriously not as bad as your describing. And I really don't see the problem with what you're describing. I like having that variety. And I'm not an idiot, so I can generally work out how any app works within a minute or two. And it's a moot point anyway, as I never use anyone else's phone.

Errr... Android does have UI guidelines. And they're followed just as closely as the Apple ones are, by which I mean they're a mixed bag.

Yes, of course. I was specifically responding to your comments about design patents.

I SAID I WANT YOU ALL TO SHUT UP NOW


I thought if I yelled it, you guys might care about what I want more.

Press CTRL-W and it will all go away.

You're a bad person.