I don't get it; what's stopping you from sharing your code with your mates?

Well if I make a game, to play you'll need a broadband internet connection, a webcam for face recognition, a fingerprint reader for fingerprint identification, and a valid driver's license, passport or birth certificate. HAW HAW HAW THAT'LL FIX THOSE CHEATIN' SONS OF BITCHES

Maybe they'd tie it to one single PC through ip/mac/whatever <.< .... or the cd?

Hey, here's my retort:

You are so unbelievably wrong.

The underground key market is huge, whether they do it by going into shops cracking open boxes and stealing them or working out the algorithm people will always find a way to get keys. Also; what's to stop someone decompiling the game and removing the server check or at least making it redirect to a private server for pirated folk.

I get the distinct impression Havoc, you have very little idea of what you are talking about.

I think this is most likely to happen.
But what if some key files for the game are only on the game developers' servers? In which case the game wouldn't work at all without them. Like say graphic files or something like that.

Because keys that are checked online do not work with an algorithm (smart ones don't, anyway) like the serial numbers on older games. You print 20.000 copies so there are 20.000 valid keys, period. When you install the game you have to validate the key, server checks if it's listed in the list of 20.000 known keys and if it is you are allowed to register the code to your name.

And taking a game apart takes a long damn time, especially when someone is doing in their spare time. Often it takes a couple of weeks after the initial release before such a cracked version comes out. Those first few weeks is when most games are sold the most. So the damage is considerably less.

Not to mention that certain games need online activation to begin with. Remember Half-Life 2 and it's episodes? The game needed to download files before it could start.

The year is 2200 API (After Permanent Internet)
Only a small rebel alliance of free gamers remain. Their onslaught against the tyrannical reign of big-name publishers is a battle of epic proportions.
Living underground in seclusion, connected only by the channels provided by online RTS's and RPG's, the rebels conspire against the dreaded publishers and train themselves in the art of DeCSS, known to the ancient order of SlashDot as "The Force". The preemptive strike will be a stalwart attempt at uninstalling and reinstalling Bioshock 2 over 150 times.

The future is bleak, but there is hope.

Do you comprehend what I said? Here, let me post it again.

Steam is a special case, and an effective countermeasure.(but not 100%, private servers do exist)

Steam is good. Everyone listen to Steam.

Steam tends to have fair prices.

my kettle makes Steam. this is good.

I had steamed, pork-filled buns some days ago. They were super-delicious :D

If someone doesn't make that into a sex joke, I'll lose my faith in humanity.

Well... Why don't you? It's your chance to shine, babeh!

And I never said the problem would go away entirely. But in the case of unique keys you can never steal enough keys from stores or whatever to satisfy demand for the entire underground community. Retail stores mostly keep the discs and booklets behind the counter for that very reason. So short of actually robbing a delivery truck shipping a few thousand copies of a game, I can't imagine stolen keys are a big dent in any game developer's bottom line.

Also, please explain to me why someone would go through the trouble of stealing dozens of legal keys? Do they sell them for a lower price or are they actually distributed freely in underground communities?

Which, as far as I can see, is the only truly effective piracy countermeasure.

Yea... Really. In my mind, if the prices were affordable... Only like really stubborn/lazy people would keep pirating the games.
Specially if they somehow could make a trend out of owning the original box.

Personally, I always feel a satisfaction out of owning the original CD case to my games or music.

Yeah same, also I always have this slight fear in the back of my mind that society is going to collapse tomorrow, and when I'm the last surviving human fighing off the zombies I'll need the discs as I won't be able to install L4D from Steam anymore

Seems to me that Steam prices are mostly the same for any big game. They have the $10 and $5 thing but almost every new game that comes out on Steam is the same as the retail price, at least over here.

Had that for a long time, but I tend to lose or misplace stuff like that so I decided to just get my games through Steam where possible. I buy special edition or steel case editions for certain franchises, but not many.

If you're buying at release, yes, but Steam prices go down very quickly. Also, if you're like me and you don't care about waiting six months after the game is released, you often can't even get them in stores by then, but they're available on Steam and dirt cheap.

I'd wager the illegal copy distributors would move into the plastic and printing business if that were the case.

Steam usually offers the same prices as the local stores, but success lies in keeping your eyes open for the better deal, as always. To return to an actual DRM title, AC2 is 49,99€ on Steam and around 30€ in one of the stores I know. The Orange Box cost 15€ in the same store when I bought it, and went down to 7-8€ the following month (it's still 22,99 on Steam). So it seems prices are relatively low around here, compared to "global average", but I think it's a new phenomenon, most people are not aware of it yet.

Well.. It's not like illegal copy distributors can get their stuff in official stores.

I'm talking more about making a trend out of owning the original box... distributed by the game company and it's publisher. They could even put something on the box as a nifty proof that you own the legal copy(like those 'holograms' on money bills/credit cards/passports) ...

I'm just saying that with proper marketing and planning, this could actually maybe work.

This idea mostly stems from this thing me and a friend had, where we both kinda competed who had the most original items. So amongst us, pirated games were sort of taboo. If people could make this work on a global plan, then things like the dreadful DRM and shit could be set aside.

Why bother pirating at all?

I think the amount of people who still want their games in original cases isn't big enough to warrant a marketing strategy like that. If anything, digital distribution is getting a very good foothold on the market and more people are using it every day.

Over here we also have a dedicated video game store where you can trade in used console games and use the money you get in return to buy a new game. They have a huge amount of second hand games for dirt cheap prices. And you get to save up points every time you buy something and when you have enough you get a €15 coupon.

That store + Steam has pretty much made me turn my back on every other store where I used to buy my games.

Answer questions with questions much? I'm just wondering if there are people out there who go out to steal a stack of games and distribute the keys online out of the goodness of their heart.

One could maybe receive something nifty even with online bought games... Say a little card or a small gift. But it would of course be country restricted as shipping costs a lot.

And for each card/thingy you receive, you receive points which you can redeem online.

There are lots of possibilities, and you never know until you actually do the research. Which is I think jumping directly to something like DRM is bad. They should really try to reward honest buyers, rather than punishing them.

DRM is just the most easy to use and most cost effective I guess... I mean no necessary market research there, and no need to change plans too much.

Legal buyers already get rewarded by being able to play online, use the achievement systems, unlock new items, etc etc.

And I've read that Ubisoft offered a free game of your choice (from 4 options) if you buy AC2, as a compensation of sorts for the servers being down. Though I don't know how this helps those who suffered from the server downtimes, seeing that they already possess the game. That's "legal copy rewarding" for you...

EDIT: Cancel that, it's actually those people already possessing a copy of AC2 who are supposed to receive e-mails which enable them to download one of the four games for free. Then again, I've seen on some forums that not a lot of people have seen these e-mails yet.

http://theblacksentinel.files.wordpr.../hypocrite.jpg

IMPORTANT EDIT:
I'd like to point out that I got this posrep from Havoc for this post; "God, you're a dense troll..." Which is a bit daft really as he was trying to troll me, and instead of providing any valid input keeps making up facts. What a complete bitch eh?

In addition to what happened a few weeks ago, when the AC2 servers went down, blocking everyone from playing the game, a software bug is blocking legitimate Australian owners of Settlers 7 from verifying themselves.

Havoc, do you still think that this form of DRM works?

I believe that of all the methods of DRM that have been tried so far, this has the most potential to actually work. Keep in mind that only a few game developers have dared using this method, it's no surprise it won't be without hiccups. And a bug is a bug, it's not supposed to be there. There are plenty of bugs in games without DRM too.

In the past few weeks I've played C&C 4 and Settlers 7 a lot and only once did I have a problem where Ubisoft's servers were down for like 15 minutes. I call that a good record for an experimental method. If this method is invested in (read, adapt the server for this specifically so they don't go down anymore) then this will be the future of PC gaming. Like it or not.