Excuse me if my thoughts still seem a bit unorganized. Still finding a place and crap like that. So...This post may contain stuff that makes no sense what so ever. It also explains why i'm so weird.

Well, I was baptized a roman catholic, and I currently live in the bible belt with my jesus freak grandmother. With her, all her explanations lead to jesus.
Example:
Me: Grandma? Why is there two full moons in a row tonight?
Her: *insert long explanation* God, honey.
So yeah, both my grandmas are jesus freaks. Including my evil grandma (who still insists on punishing my mother by sueing her for shit she didn't do, and then claim that she doesn't lie because she goes to church and stuff like that. The innocent little lady act.)
Being that i'm forced to go to church every saturday, i'm not all into this god stuff. So I decided to find my own path, like my accepting parents told me. Plus, I hate large zombie groups.
My line of thought before I pass out from the hypnotizing monotone priest, usually consists of the possibility that god might be getting tired of 2007 years of hearing the same things over and over again, from the same books. Either he has a really big ego, or he's a five year old child begging for one more bedtime story before he uses earth like a giant punching pillow or something. I believe that all religious scriptures are just accounts of what they experianced when god-like stuff was happening in that area. Some see him as a wise man, others, a powerful being. Some people believe that his creations represent him, and he is in each of them somehow, and another group, mostly teenagers, believe that we were here for some kind of sick entertainment of his, or that it's all just a computer program (not a matrix referance, I swear to whoever you believe in).

So I loath those who entrust soemthing as valuable as thier soul to this person, and repeat his legend every day. It's annoying. to quote from josh's sig:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God.

Baisically, I know he's there, but I refuse to worship him that way. I follow the basic rules, respect his creations, and try and keep the peace if I am able. Me and my screwed up juvinile tendancies have me believing in magic at his point in time, so now I find myself going down the nature spiritual path. My biggest revelation was at the zoo, wandering through the miniature bamboo forest. I felt like I was home, that I needed nothing else. Now I have the urge to go into the woods out back and live in a tree house.

But yeah, I'm also planning on shooting the tyrant principal with an arrow and bow I made from the bountiful sacred pecan tree in the backyard. He tore up a petition that a student made for changing the dress code, instead of telling her politely that it wasn't in his power to do that. She got detention, and now I'm godzillah pissed. He broke the peace, and blood must be spilt. All this wanting to keep things peaceful, wanting to live solitarily, and without social interaction has me believeing that my spirit is posessed by a dragon. Now i'm constantly thinking about the meaning of life, and I got really close during a long thinking session, but someone had to sit next to me and fart. I might be a decendant of a dragon, but I might ust be imagining my father's silver hair and green eyes.

So me in my 'adult brain in a kids body' situation is not really good. Especially when I was treated as an adult all my life, but my imagination was expanded. So I just might end up making my own theory for life (and a possible new lifestyle) out of a mix of videogame themes, mythology, baisic 'right under your nose' logic, too many replays of 'what the bleep do we know', and various religious wisdom from both fictional and real races. I got some good use out of some alien quotes, and it taught me how to manipulate adults (mostly by not submitting or challenging).

It may or may not work out, but I know for a fact that later on my studies will include the flying spaghetii monster. I might make a new religion for all I know. Oh, well. Trying to be different is hard without dying at the hands of your own species...

But my point is, how do we know what is God.
The Aztecs religeon followed sacrifice, they were a violent civilisation. They fought they were doing good, why? It was their moral code of ethics, and it is what their religon and preists dictated them to do.
The Spanish were appaled by this, therefore due to the religous clashes, even though killing is a sin, they justified this by saying they were evil, why? Because they did not obey their ethics.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm a 15 year old kid, and I don't go to church or anything, but I do believe in God's existance.
But my point is, that what we think is right or wrong is through our religon, this may change and become through the government and situations, but at the moment the governments are very much influenced by religeon at the moment.
And Bullet Magnet, we don't, or we do but some to a very minor degree, that's why communsium failed and that's why there's things such as conscription ( know there are those against whatever it is concription is for but you can always oppose it if you're truley against it).
Or maybe you're right, and everyone has the drive, but the drive is some diverse in different people that still certain people won't pull their wait compared to everyone else.

My point of doing something speacial is a metaphor of satisfaction, but it is possible to get satisphaction from other means, and by distracting yourself from what you were orignally supposed to be doing.
And the reason athiests get on in our world is that it is mostly theist, my point is an entire atheist world would not survive, why not? Well lets put it this way, why is every culture that has originated that is known theist, and athiests have only developed out of it.
I guess my point is that whether god exists or not, Religeon is essential for humanity, as we have been brought up on it, and are dependent on it, and an indervidual may do without religon, but they are following people who believe in a religeon, and follow the ethics religeon has extablished, and are estiantlly following the code of the religeon, while remaining athiest.
The problem with Budhism is how he desphired what is right and wrong.
A number of ways of thinking a been devised which do not rely on God, such as Utalitarism, but they all have weak points, which again I went over in class.
The problem with things like doing the good for the majority is what about the minority? (Wasn't the good for the majority being desplayed by the Nazis and White's in America and Australia against the African american and Aboriginies?) and who decides what is good?
That is acutally the problem that I am stated, it is a devine ruler or rulers, such as God that is what decides what is good because he is not Human. It's like if a man stabbed you, would you want a freind of the man deciding what is right, or a judge deciding what is right and if the man who stabbed you commited wrong or not. (Or a freind of you which is what some people want, God favouring you.)
Also, as for our ethics being created without religeon, the chances of that is like the chances of another human race evolving just like us a long time ago, another galaxy, far, far away.
Say there is a human tribe, they are athiest, which is highly unlikely becuase their science was very religeon based (science is a form of religeon actually, as it beliefs, and there are alot of theories in science, and science has been wrong before, as I said, it relies on it'self being wrong to prove it'self more right later on.), and they have always been atheist, which in my way only seems possibly because they lack the drive to care, but according to Bullet Magnet that is impossible, so I don't know, lets say they are athiest, do not believe in the supernatural somehow, care about their surrondings but for some reason haven't explained them yet and try to put forward rules. Lets say that they decide on the basics of our ethics. They don't kill each other, all of the suddon they are out on food and there is an argument, say the leader kills her freind, his mate in unfuriated. "But I needed to" Says he in cave man grunts of course. "There's not enough food for all of us, and I'm leader, I'm more important, I also get to decide on rules, I say we do what is needed to be done, like go steal my brothers food, because we're hungry" "But you can't" Says she "it's not right" "Yes it is, I'm the rule here, what is right is what I say is right".
Eventually they turn on each other.

And Havoc, there is a serious fault in you blaming God or the lack of God for your mum being achoholic, God has given us free will, so it is not his fault she drinks excevily? What do you want him to do, make sure acholhol doesn't exist, after Jesus turned water into wine I might add.
Sorry if I'm offending you but you accusing me of being mentally unstable doesn't help.

Anyway, has anyone read 1984, the *spoiler* end but when he goes "This won't sustain, it isn't right!" or something like that and the other guy goes "Do you believe in God" and he goes "No" and so he replies "Then there is no greater force that can change this situation and we are the ones that decide what is right" Or something like it.

Anyway, I'm sorry if I may seem agreesive, I'm trying to have an intellictuale argument, and Havoc, there's no need to be so abusive, and I know it is personal, and am sorry if I am pushing on hard territory.

Babelfish is a translator. I used it (excuse me spam). I think people have to read the Bible.

Well, people do have a point. What if there was a possibility that god didn't exist? That he's just some person we made up so we don't feel lonely and useless in the universe? That we never had a purpose, and that we were just a lucky chemical reaction? This is deep. I'm saving this bit for a really long pondering session.

Or, you could just, you know, say 'meh', and get on with your life.

Or, you could just, you know, say 'meh', and get on with your life; while everyone else has an interesting discussion. How about that?

Lol @ Rapture farms.
But going on, if we were just a lucky chemical reaction, does that mean there's even lesser chance of life.
But then again, most religeons say we were the chosen people, so why would God create life somewhere else.
I'm not so sure, I was merely providing oposition to your arguments, and using other people's arguments, I'm not neccarily that devout, I believe in God and Jesus and all of that, but I'm not like, Mary is definatly a virgin and I have to go to church every sunday and such.

Or you could just say I am a giant monkey dick and get on with your life.

Mudling- The few parts of your last two posts that were coherent argued against what apparently is your point. Either that or the entire thing was incoherent.

Or you could just say I attack people for no reason, simply because I'm too bored, and too weird to write decent posts and get on with your life.

Everyone here must be 'too weird' by your standards then.

Kastere. Stop spamming or you'll get an infraction.

Well, does everyone here randomly and suddenly "harass someone at any given moment for the stupidest things"?

Anyway, I just noticed that this little argument has nothing at all to do with religion! *gasp*

OANST, maybe my views were changing, maybe I was showing two sides of the coin, maybe they weren't my arguments anyway, maybe I'm too tiered and stressed to go through all of my previous posts and check it.
And I know this is over, but can I request people to leave newbies like Rapture Farms alone, we are discouraging new commers, even certain modderators *cough* Hobbo *cough* are doing it, please try and be polite and kind, and flexable to everyone. Rapture Far,s is one of the most adapting, if not most adapting newbies of our time, yet we are overloading him with flame and spam.
Back on toppic, that's pretty much all I got, as I said, I believe in God and such, and don't follow all of the statements I have said, just have presented them so you get both ends of the spectrum.

Actually, I was pointing out that it's better to simply stick with what you know then staring at the sky and asking deep, yet probably unanswerable questions.

Rather then your silly "I know you are, but what am I?" routine.

Stay on topic.

That's also what I don't like about religion and normal people in general. Closed mindedness. 'Sticking with what you know' will get you killed. Painfully. That's the true meaning of insanity: doing something over and over expecting the same results every time. Sorry if I seem to over react here, but my family is full of people who just can't widen thier perspective a bit, and it annoys me to no end.
I just reafuse to be a zombie who believes it's life can't be helped, that something bad happening to them was fate's idea of a cruel joke. Nope. That's just the natural course of things because said zombie was too lazy to strengthen thier mental capabilities and learn how to alter the world. I bet i'm making no sense whatsoever, am I?

I just ask unsolvable questions because: How can there be a question without an answer? and the answer to this seemingly impossible question is: only if it's hypothetical. There. Thinking loop closed. Totally useless post posted. Statement made.

Acutally, asking unsolvable questions will kill you, again showed in 1984, basically leaders like their people ignorant and obeying, like sheep, it's therefore easy to control, that's true even with a boss and employee, if you question all of the faults, the boss will silence you.
Being zombies is what saves us from being the block that juts out and has to be put into place, as does probing at things like religeon which can be answered, as I have come at pains to do.
You could stand up against it, question others, show them what is right, and what is wrong, and you could make a difference, but my point is, without religeon does it matter, if religeon exists as it does, it does.

Actually, spouting out things like that will kill you, at least it will when the biker in the bar you are talking to doesn't understand what you said and decides to stab you in the chest.

Okay, serious time now. I actually DO believe that our lives have no meaning, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I live my life without caring abut society or the world and that I live my life like a sheep. thats ridiculous and is a false view of Nihilism.

Your arrogance is without merit.

I am surprised no one has said 'Through Brainwashing' yet.

Not pushing anything, mate. I wouldn't have brought it up if it was something I hate talking about.

Anyway, using the theory of free will, why do people bother praying to god in the first place? I prayed, seriously prayed, when I was about 8 to god to do something, anything. Nothing realy happened. So if free will is a rule, then god can not interfere with anything. If he can't interfere with anything then why bother having a religion that praises and respects the bastard while he lets us rot in this hellish place we call earth?

I asked god to make Pokemon real when I was little; My cat died the next day. :(

Stop making me laugh. The internets are for serious people with serious business.

Yes, but what do we know?

We've got an entire universe to mess around in, why bother with the afterlife when we've got tillions of light-years of real estate to contemplate? IMO, once we get the mysteries of this world, we can start on the next.

:) Thanks Mudling! :beer:

And it all comes back to my favorite movie: "What The Bleep Do We know?"

That, is the ultimate question...

I hate to tell you this but having mudling champion your cause does more damage than good.

Don't be so ridiculous.

Do your parents know?

And I hate to tell you this, but your post is off topic, and probably spam, oh, and shut up OANST.
Look, honsestly I don't want to get anyone offside, and I'm not so much campaining Rapture Farm's cause as the cause of a lot of other victims like PV (Which I don't realy need to see this, but you were one of the prime agrivaters), there is a lot of flame and spam as I have stated, and this thread is slowly being filled with it, and I know it's not realy my job to stand up against it but someone must?


Anyway .... back on toppic .... I think I backed up that point somewhere in one of my posts, Oh I'm tiered of arguing, believe what you want, right or wrong, if you care to you'll find what's right for you anyway.

No. You're wrong. PV was an obnoxious twat who followed myself and Hobo into every thread we posted in to merely talk shit about us. He then decided that wasn't enough and talked shit about us in every thread we didn't post in. I spoke to him probably twice in the year that he'd been here up until the time I realized what he was doing. Even then, I still left him alone for quite a while. In other words, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about and that's why it's a bad idea to have you as a champion. You make the person you are attacking look like a fucking genius in comparison.