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-   -   New Changes @ OWI (http://www.oddworldforums.net/showthread.php?t=11859)

Elodie 03-31-2005 07:33 AM

Just as Oddguy says. Couldn't agree with you more.

Chimaera Dragon 03-31-2005 07:58 AM

First I was pissed, but after Oddguy's post, I'm calming down. Mabey more information about oddworld on the next update of www.oddworld.com, thats like begin April right?

Dualist 03-31-2005 08:07 AM

If.
 
If it was April 1st, I would of said April Fool's maybe?

But alas, where in the world are you getting your information Alcar? I trust you, but from some of the members here it seems to be contradicting what you have said about OWI stopping its original game production.

Angalok 03-31-2005 08:16 AM

Thank you Oddguy, I was growing weary of being a lone voice of reason.

ConkerTribe 03-31-2005 08:31 AM

Well, I would be fine with this, but they straight out said that Oddworld was no more. Why straight out LIE to us like that? If they're not dead, don't say they are, damnit. You just end up scaring and pissing off people that way. Damn journalists.

ConkerTribe 03-31-2005 08:34 AM

:

I sticking with Oddworld no matter what happens, while I'm quite unhappy of the fact that a new Oddworld is a very long way off and that something else would be out before it.

Ok, you, tell me where you heard that it will be a very long time before the next Oddworld game comes out. There was nothing like that in the article, from what I've gleaned from it, so if you've heard something, please tell us. If not, then don't say things you've got no clue about.

Dualist 03-31-2005 08:34 AM

:

The San Luis Obispo studio
Wait a second, isn't the Oddworld Studio located in Berkley Cali?

Dualist 03-31-2005 08:35 AM

Well it's strange that 3 of the guys who worked at OWI said it was going to close its doors...

Five 03-31-2005 08:41 AM

I'm worried too...
well, if it's all just an April fools joke...well.....it's a really bad one :fuzemb:

But I haven't read Oddguy's post before....and I think that you can be right! :fuzgrin:
I'm in my more optimistic mode again, thank you Oddguy :D

Angalok 03-31-2005 08:50 AM

I'll agree, ConkerTribe, that was an unfortunate remark, and the headlines of those articles are misleading (the Gamespy one was called "The End of Oddworld?"). If you just skim over it, it does look like they're through, but if you read the article it becomes clear that they aren't. I'll chalk up the remarks from the ex-employees to the fact that they're upset at being laid off; perhaps they meant Oddworld is over in the sense that it's dead to them. Lorne's probably left some bitter people in the wake of this.

Wil 03-31-2005 09:02 AM

It will be come the summer. They've been in San Luis Obispo for the last ten years, though.

_GrubHunter_ 03-31-2005 09:02 AM

Please OWI.... I want update of oddworld site tommorow!!!

Wil 03-31-2005 09:11 AM

:

Well it's strange that 3 of the guys who worked at OWI said it was going to close its doors...

Only two said that, and one then corrected himself by saying it's the end of Oddworld as he knew it. The third mearly said:

:

Oddworld has ceased game production operations.
Which is, of course, where that information has come from. No one has said OWI will still be producing games, Lorne simply said there would be more games.

Al the Vykker 03-31-2005 09:15 AM

:

"I'm not scared at all. I probably would be if I was forced to go this way, but like I said, this was a choice. I'd be afraid if we had to keep going the way we have been going. Running the operation as we have been has limited the amount of opportunities we can pursue. We have no regrets, but to continue this way, we'd have to keep turning down opportunities we've always seen as the future." - Lorne Lanning
When I first read this thread I thought it was a sad day indeed, but after reading the article on gamespy it made me more excited on the future of Oddworld.

I recommend anyone really worried or lost to read this article.

http://www.gamespy.com/articles/599/599811p1.html

Oddish 03-31-2005 09:23 AM

Oh man, I didn't want oddworld inhabitants to give up. :( They such a great and talented team and created a great world. I do want too see a big future like at first planned , but it will be difficult now.

Dammit :s

ConkerTribe 03-31-2005 09:24 AM

Well, I'm glad that Lorne is getting what he finally wants; to bridge all his talents and interests together and thereby becoming faster at creating things. My only real fear is that he's lost sight of his originaly plan, and that was to create new Oddworld games with the Stranger engine and perhaps more on the Xenon. I mean, just because you're liberated now, that doesn't mean you have to stop caring about the games you originally planned for. That's just a little contradictory given his interest in bringing us more, as the article suggested.

Thanks for the article Al.

Al the Vykker 03-31-2005 09:25 AM

I think everyone needs to relax, it's not the end of Oddworld. Just shift in physical location, and a lot of drastic changes that are underway. I doubt we will never see an oddworld game again, but that we will probably be seeing some new stuff in the coming months.

ConkerTribe 03-31-2005 09:27 AM

Let's hope so. I'm betting on E3. Anyone else in?

Al the Vykker 03-31-2005 09:44 AM

:

Well, I'm glad that Lorne is getting what he finally wants; to bridge all his talents and interests together and thereby becoming faster at creating things. My only real fear is that he's lost sight of his originaly plan, and that was to create new Oddworld games with the Stranger engine and perhaps more on the Xenon. I mean, just because you're liberated now, that doesn't mean you have to stop caring about the games you originally planned for. That's just a little contradictory given his interest in bringing us more, as the article suggested.

Thanks for the article Al.

Your welcome about the Article. I was really confused and actually worried when I first read all these posts about Oddworld being dead, so it was nice to find something that would probably ease people's minds a bit and clear any real big questions that werent answered already.

However, I do see a lot of truth in your last post. I'm just hoping the change was for the best.

Shinjara 03-31-2005 09:51 AM

Thankyou for pointing us to that article Al, I was feeling confused as to all the different information being thrown about.

I'm sort of disappointed but I'm glad Oddworld still has a future.

Incognito 03-31-2005 10:24 AM

Whoa! I was kinda scared there for a minute. But no, I think the title of this thread needs to be changed because it is misleading. Or it should at least be merged with this thread Outsourced Oddworld to reach new media?

Other than that I think this could be good for oddworld; we'll be seeing more of them in the future and that can only mean more coverage. I also have to agree totally with Oddguy's post. To reiterate here's the quote from Lorne

"We love the games. We're proud of them. We're glad you've enjoyed them. We want to bring you more in the way we believe it can be done. We don't want to compromise on the quality and intensity. There's more to come."

He's talking about the games and his last words are there's more to come. Oddworld's game production (on the basis of the above quote) has definately not stopped.

_GrubHunter_ 03-31-2005 10:26 AM

Close this topic. Imo, it confusing people.

Godlesswanderer 03-31-2005 11:03 AM

What we really need now is for Alf to come along and make some kind of announcement. To clear up any questions we have... and stuff.

Chimaera Dragon 03-31-2005 11:42 AM

that Article said it al. I just hope what ever Lorne is doing is going good and Stranger Wrath makes a lot of money for Oddworld so that they can take the options they want.

oddguy 03-31-2005 11:53 AM

The "Oddworld is DEAD" and "Outsourced Oddworld to reach new media" threads have been merged. They both were pretty much discussing the new changes at our favorite video game developer, OWI. Now people won't be confused. ;)

-oddguy

atusiya@ 03-31-2005 12:06 PM

an old news Do you remeber?
 
Video-Game Publishers Increasingly Outsource Production
Posted on Sun, Mar. 21, 2004
By Dean Takahashi, San Jose Mercury News, Calif. Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News


:

Mar. 21 - Mark Vange is in the vanguard of globalizing the video-game industry. He employs 30 game developers in St. Petersburg, Russia, who have worked on everything from flight simulators to dragon-fighting games.

From his office in Toronto, Vange hires the Russians out to North American game publishers. As the cost of making a video game approaches that of producing a feature film, game publishers are looking to shave their production costs.

"We can get the work done for half the cost that it takes in the U.S.," said Vange, president of Ketsujin Studios.

Similar outsourcing of video-game production is being done in places like China, India, Vietnam and parts of Eastern Europe. California game developers, who are the creative force behind a $10 billion industry in the U.S. market, view the trend with a combination of fear and anticipation.

"It's happening more and more," says Lorne Lanning, president of game developer Oddworld Inhabitants in San Luis Obispo.

As Vange can attest, the offshoring trend that is sending so many high-tech jobs overseas has come to the video-game industry, resulting in a shake-up in the way that local publishers and developers do business.

For now the impact isn't nearly as devastating to the domestic workforce, thanks to the unique creative process behind video games.

Creating a game isn't like making a soul-less electronic widget. It is a craft that combines rote technical know-how as well as creative artistry, which is born from experience and a familiarity with the cultural tastes of a specific audience that plays the games.

Game developers have been willing to farm out some tasks, but they say they don't want to separate the tightly knit teams of creative talent whose input is vital to making a game fun. It's hard, for instance, for a Russian developer to know what will entertain Americans.

"Game development is uniquely different from other types of software development because of the creative process," said Michael Kim, an analyst at Roth Capital Partners in Newport Beach. "It is very difficult to communicate exactly what changes in a game need to be made because of cultural and linguistic differences. Development costs might be lower overseas, but product quality would probably suffer."

The part of a video game that is easiest to outsource is the art, which is what gamers see when they fire up the game on their consoles or computers.

Gamers would never know, or probably even care, that the Orcs in the upcoming Middle Earth Online game from Turbine Entertainment were created in Russia. And it likely matters little to them that Electronic Arts didn't construct all the furniture for "The Sims" game and that most of it was done by artists at a company called New Pencil in Sausalito.

New Pencil's team of 12 artists is taking note of the overseas outsourcing trend. Adam Murguia, the company's art director and co-founder, says that his shop has proven that outsourcing can work well in cutting costs, obtaining high quality results and meeting deadlines. For now, New Pencil does its work in Sausalito. But if push came to shove, it could also take on project management duties to help a publisher deal with an overseas art team.

"If that is the way the trend goes, we aren't in fear of it," Murguia said. "We can find our role in it."

By contrast, it is the programming and design of the interaction and characters in the game that must be performed in-house because it takes a process of trial and error to get it right, says Jeffrey Tseng, creative director at San Francisco game developer Secret Level.

As a result, the offshore companies that are chasing the game business find themselves at the low end of the food chain, taking small art jobs at first and working their way up.

So far, the game industry's version of offshoring is following the Hollywood model rather than the technology industry trend of sending big programming projects to India and elsewhere.

Much of the creative process and management of filmmaking is rooted in Hollywood, but the industry lowers its costs by filming overseas and creating animations for shows like "The Simpsons" in Asia.

"If you look at other entertainment and not technology, the development of entertainment doesn't travel well," says Bing Gordon, chief creative officer of Electronic Arts, the Redwood Shores game publisher which has 1,400 of its 4,700 employees in the Bay Area.

"We'll do development in low-cost places. But there is some magic in working face to face, and its hard to do development in places where people don't grow up playing games."

EA itself hasn't embraced offshore outsourcing yet. But even as game industry executives assert the heart of game development will stay in the Bay Area, Los Angeles, London and Tokyo, they acknowledge that the talent for making games is spreading worldwide.

For instance, French publisher Ubi Soft has opened two studios for developing games in China. That makes some wonder if the same sweeping changes buffeting the software industry will hit games in due time.

Overseas developers are establishing beach heads by taking over low-priority tasks, like translating a game for a local market or animating the demons that fill out the army in a fantasy game. They build up their skills and then bid on more complex jobs.

Where once there was no talent overseas, now there is plenty.

The International Game Developers Association has chapters in areas that were once nowhere on the map of the games industry: India, Pakistan, China, the Philippines and Taiwan. There are chapters in Slovakia and Lithuania as well as five South American outposts.

"If I were an artist, I'd take notice," said Jason Robar, a games veteran in Issaquah, Wash., who has brokered outsourcing deals between game publishers and offshore developers. Robar has teams in China, South Korea, the Czech Republic and Poland working on game art.

He is bidding on more and more outsourcing projects as publishers see the numbers offshoring produces. A veteran game programmer earns anywhere from $85,000 to $110,000 a year in salary, according to a survey by Game Developer magazine. At a place like Microsoft, added benefits and stock options increase the cost to the company to about $165,000 a year. By comparison, Robar says a senior artist or programmer in China takes home $15,000 a year.

For a project that costs $1 million in the U.S., Robar estimates that outsourcing art will bring the cost down to $750,000. Such savings will often determine whether a development house will make or lose money on a game.

"The economic pressures are there as a game's budget heads to $5 million or $10 million," said Jason Della Rocca, program director for the International Game Developers Association.

Some game companies have experienced nightmares with outsourcing. Of four recent outsourcing jobs, Argonaut, a developer in the United Kingdom, had trouble with three of them, said Joss Ellis, the company's chief operating officer. He subcontracted art work to a Russian company and found that because of missed deadlines, management travel and attention and communications costs, it wasn't worth it.

"We calculated that it would have been cheaper to do it internally," he said.

But as software industry veterans can attest, the game industry shouldn't be overly confident about its superiority. A case in point: one of the most anticipated PC games coming this year is "Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl," a shooting game with elaborate art from Calabasas-based THQ.

The entire game is being created by GSC Game World, whose headquarters is in Kiev, Ukraine, where there are an estimated 100 game development companies that didn't exist a decade ago.

Said Dan Kelly, THQ's vice president of development: "We're getting a very high quality game from a territory known for cheap labor."

SeaRex 03-31-2005 01:26 PM

Hmm. You know, I bet Lorne got pretty upset that Oddworld was being pigeon-holed into FPS games because of the current video gaming audience. No body seems to care about "clever" anymore...

If you look at the Abe games, it's hard to imagine that Lorne actually wanted OW to venture into the realm of shooters. Of course, this is pure speculation on my part. I can't exactly put the words into LL's mouth, you know.

And a smaller design team? Perhaps I can hold my breath for another 2D OW game now. I can only hope...

Still, it would have been nice to see how Fangus would have turned out (if it has been canceled).

Wil 03-31-2005 02:09 PM

Credit must go to Game Daily for actually providing evidence that Fangus has been cancelled:-

:

One of the members of the Oddworld team, in his March 30 blog, implied that the company's next game, code-named Fangus, had been cancelled and that the people not retained as part of the reorganization will “be broken up and spread around the industry.”

Fortunately, Mr Bloom does not say or imply that. He says that OWI will not be producing Fangus, and says it's a shame they did not get to use the Stranger Engine on that project. That's nothing along the lines of the project having been cancelled given the news that OWI is outsourcing development.

Thanks for redirecting people to the GameSpy article, Al. It seems in times such as these, people like to cling to buzzwords and brash headlines rather than take in the things that are actually said. Thanks too to Oddguy for getting rid of that hideously misleading ‘Oddworld is dead’ subject title.

Oddish 03-31-2005 02:11 PM

Thanks for heads-up Max.


No Fangus then :( :crying:

Dipstikk 03-31-2005 02:52 PM

There's always Stranger 2 or Munch's Exoddus.
I'm not saying that the whole idea of a
I'm just saying that Fangus didn't feel like Oddworld, mostly because his design was so uninspired. Wow, they took a big cat, gave it a human form, pumped it full of steroids, and sent it on a trigger-happy killing spree.

I would have lost faith in OWI if that game WAS passed. WHat happened to not caring about what the little tards of today wanted? Oddworld started off innocently, and now we have ****ing Frank Castle in full felinian form running around with 3 guns and a flock of damn sheep.

I'm sorry, but Fangus just looks like yet another muscle-bound meatpuppet from a generic video game.

Take it how you want, and I'm sure I'll get flamed for that (because people seem to get a hard-on for Fangus for soem reason).

But seriously, be the better person and try not to flame me if you respond to this.