Really now, don't go around thinking or trying to promote that we'll and deem anything we don't like unworthy. We don't make up rules as we go. Common sense is a constant state. To this date, I don't think I've ever seen a legitimate post or thread deleted because it was "unworthy". Stop worrying so much about what could happen. The moderators in charge are the ones selected by the forumers, and my guess is that it may have been for a reason. All of the current staff have been stellar members, and the moderators before us, and those before them.

Granted, there are many new members since the election a few years back. But if you feel one of us is incapable of good judgement when it comes to spam, simply say so. Put your word in with the current elections. Post about it. You sense of potentially unfair deletions needs to be more specific, if you want it to hold much merit. Find a place where someone's legitimate post was deleted. Find where a perfectly good thread was closed.

The spam thread itself has been replaced, and allowed, and the old one was getting much too long anyways. It sometimes helps to know what page one of your posts was on, or what the recent convorsation flow has been.

Sorry about that I have been feeling a bit upset all day. I don't know why, I'm just kinda... "down", at the moment.

Happens to me every so often. I just ... burst into tears for no reason once every month or so, then I feel better. I've got a friend here helping me through it, I should be back to normal in a little bit.

Again sorry for being an ass, just not my usual self. :)

I REALLY don't think codek will appreciate being banned straight after he apologised......Anyhow this is a battle between the mods and the members.....Do you wan't it to be one of the forums where noone but mods and admins post?Think about what the members wan't not just the mods.Right heres a list of people who have left.Funny thing is None of em' are mods

1.Smell
2.Smitz
3. BM is on a ban
4.Lucipher
5.I think codek pretty much despises the forum now.....

below are people who never post anymore since this ''enforcement''
1.Sligslinger
2.Sligster
3.DI

now you see? Do something....you have a chance...take it.....before you have 0 members who bother to post...

If they choose to leave, that is their choice. Obviously, they've realised they can no longer use this forum as an outlet for their teenage angst. In turn, it means they've realised that they've been breaking the rules. Furthermore, there is a fatal flaw in your argument. The people you've listed are those who break the rules.

Personally, I would rather a small-knit community of intelligent members, who are mature enough to recognise that the rules are there for a good reason. Most of the members complaining are only doing so because they're upset that they've been told off. Live with it.

Alcar...

Maybe so but they were liked people.Man there won't be a small knit community.It shall be 2/3 members and mods.Does'nt sound too fun.And I haven't seen SS break the rules.Nor has sligster.

You haven't seen them break the rules because their spam posts are deleted, meaning you can't see them. That is the reason I always quote the post that someone has broken the rules in, when sending them a warning. They may have been liked people, but the majority of them broke the rules. They chose to leave on their own account. They could not be bothered to conform to our rules. You cannot blame that on me.

Alcar...

First off, Smell left for unrelated reason.

The fact that you are using a respected member's name out of spite does actually sicken me.

Secondly, does it not stand to reason that the mods are mods for the very reason that they're not likely the break the rules? Not breaking the rules means no need for warnings.

How will a smaller number of members detract from the close knit feel? Personally, in GD at least, I have found that discussion on the whole has become richer, more intelligent and more satisfying, much like in the days when the Forums really were a close knit community.

Of course, we'll never regain that same nostalgic ideal, because as more and more people join OWF, our members become more and more widespread, incorporating a greater range of individuals, resulting in a variety. Incidentally, it is in catering for this variety that the rules exist.

Dude, in case you just came flying in from another world. Here on earth games are mostly played by teenagers... so its kinda normal a forum dedicated to a game attracts teenagers! OMG! WHAT LOGIC!
All the rule's make this place looks like it is some adult convo center with no fun at all. Hell I can have more fun at the nursing home!
You know the art of being a good moderator? Thats being able of judging every single post for spam or not. BUt since you obvious lack that capability you just choose to give everyone a warning as soon as they go one letter ofF topic. That way you don't have to hurt your brain to decide wether its spam or not.
Its the most idiotic way to run a forum, and youl know the results soon enough if you don't stop it.

Just because we have a majority of teenagers doesn't mean they can use the Oddworld Forums as an outlet for their angst.

And, how would you know how to run a forum? But don't bother answering that. You obviously haven't.

Alcar...

Alcar, I have alot of respect for you, but I would like to know why you thought the Enforcement was even needed? The forums seemed fine untill it was enforced.

Yes maybe she did leave for different reason.But if I'm correct she got a warning and is'nt it funny how she left just after the enforcement?And screw it Im just gonna agree with Fez.We don't even need the enforcement.Im an admin to a forum myself and it's easy.Noone has gotten any warnings and the site is fine...

It really began with the staff members not doing their job properly, myself included. As expected, spam grew, and people became accustomed to it. So that when we decided that it had definately reached too much, the general population were so used to it, that our sudden strictness in the rules was taken badly. Especially the newer members, who joined when we were lax. They are only known to the forums when it was very spam-plentiful.

Spam was abundant. Members constantly arguing was abundant. Members scaring off other members was abundant. We were loosing new members because of it. And the list continues.

I don't see why members are reluctant to post anything. I have only handed out warnings to that which is actually spam. And even then, I've been very considerate. There are a lot of posts now in existence that should be deleted, and the user warned. I've bent my own rules when it comes to warning and banning people. I've been very generous.

One thing to think about though, is why is it the same people who I actually end up warning / banning? (with the exception of a minute few). It's a bunch of confused of teenagers trying to make a difference, by going on a blind crusade. They want to change what has been in place for ages. And I will simply not allow the forums to die in the process.

If it means loosing members, then so be it. The only members I want on the Oddworld Forums, are those that are dedicated to promoting wholesome, and entertaining discussion. We will more than make up the lost numbers (even though the numbers are so small its laughable) in the pre-Stranger, Stranger, and post-Stranger periods. And those members will join the forums under our proper rules scheme. This is essentially what I am trying to do: Promote more Oddworld-ness, and alter the forums in time for the flood of members to arrive.

Alcar...

Heh... That post actually amused me...
The funny thing is that Havoc, actually is a mod. He knows how to run a forum.
Just go and look www.thecommunity.has.it
W have like 10 active members, but they are good people. We have fun on the community, without having to worry if it's spam or not. Havoc, gives warnings, yeah, he gave TBM several warnnings for spamming. Havoc is a good mod. We don't need a law enforcement. and he closes threads that becomes too old, to prevent further spamming. So how can you say he doesn't know how to run a forum. In this case i am sorry to say the your wrong.

See? Problems can also be solved in good ways. No one has ever complained over the rules on TC.

But he is not running a forum. He is running one forum, in which he handles no administrative tasks. I had originally said (but removed it), that forums of less than 1000 members don't count. Which is your case. The members you have on that forum are all friends, and know each other a lot better than I know you. The fact is, Havoc doesn't have any experience in running a forum as large as this. His verdict on my running of a forum is worth absolutely nothing but an opinion's sake. Because he has nothing to back it.

Once again, your forum is a small community. It is easier to manage. We get a daily range of anything from 200 to 300 + posts. The methods you use, would simply not be effective on our larger scale forums.

Alcar...

Alcar this was'nt needed.You could have just gave a reminder of the rules out.Not an enforcement which will get half of us banned or pissed and leave.I run a forum too and I can control it pretty well.Take a look.I close all aggressive threads.Its only 1 month old and we are doing great.I am the admin called plaguethirster.I do my job without warnings http://tlotb.proboards12.com/index.cgi

How many annoying spammers do you have to contend with? How many new members leave because other members are complete idiots towards them? How many new threads and posts do you have to moderate daily? How many members do you have that post regularly?

The answer to all of them is minimal. Your management strategies would not work on our scale forums. Just as our strategies would not work on other forums.

Alcar...

Well... You seem to know what your talking about alcar. But i think it could be managed in another way... Too many members leave. And yes i know you think that if they don't like it they can just leave. But would you do, if you where a member of a forum about the only thing you like, and then this law comes where you get a warning for evrything you do, and don'y unerstand why? Well... Sometimes my little brain, just can't figure out why a member got a warning, my brain always comes to the conclusion that it's just ridiculous

Yes but alcar it is but a new forum.This is 4 year I think.I can still get annoyed with the members.I once warned someone for a double post none of which were relevant. ''Hey I gotta try that'' ''WhO lIkeS IrOn MaiDEN?'' . Its annoying.So I can understand how you feel.But even I think I acted a bit harsh.I've cooled down much better now.I haven't warned a single person after that . And the forum already has 1000 posts and over 20 members after one month into its creation.

T-nex, there are many ways I could have managed it. I guess I chose the extremely blunt and sudden method. I can't say it didn't work, because it has, to a large extent. We're thinking of modifing the tallying system, and the basic gist I got of it, was that different offences are awarded a different warning "amount". So double posting might be worth 10% and chit-chat might be worth 20%. So that if you reach 100% you are banned or something. 50% you might be temporarily banned. I'd like any suggestions you have on that, as well as any suggestions concerning spam in the thread entitled: 'the definition of spam' :)

Cyber-Slig, it's good to know that you've been in the situation I have been in many times before. I honestly don't think I've been too harsh. Perhaps a little at the beginning, but I've progressed slowly down to a less-agro approach. I've been very lenient with a lot of things. I've given reminders instead of warnings. I've reduced banning times. I've let what some might call spam pass through.

Everyone seems to have the notion that I'm destroying the forums by forcing people to leave. I really find that quite hurtful, as I've always protested for the better of the forums. I've said time and time again that I want them to grow. But I don't want them to grow into a pile of rubbish.

Alcar...

Well the forum is fine in the first place.Just as the members suggested let our well-loved members back in and hand out more reminders.I thought I was banned for a week a few minutes ago and saw it was a reminder.I doubt I'll do it so problem solved.I think that is much better than a warning.If you do that noone will mind the rule enforcement.

Maybe you should do that more often :p

I honestly think that a part of the problem is that it came too sudden... And i think that might have made member think : This is bullshit.
I think You really have to loosen up a bit... Just a tiny little bit.

I think he's already done it.I thought ''Oh no not a warning'' . If you give reminders to people they won't change thier attitudes but they will try to refrain from doing it again.BM could be much better if you tried to remind him of the spamming and he would stop probably.I have also noticed most of the spam has swearing.Why not get a swear blocker? I think we're heading down the right track now

I understand that reminders or cautions (ta Charlie ;)) are a better way of informing people. But I've been asking the same question a lot lately, in regards to the no warnings / cautions:

What about repeat offendors?

There are those that will repeat the offence, even after a reminder is handed out. Do I simply send more reminders? Of course not. Which leads us to something else. What about those members that deliberatly break the rules? Especially in Welcomes & Birthdays, members are scaring off new members, by deliberatly greeting them in a rude fashion. A simple reminder ain't going to do much there either.

EDIT: About the swear filter. We tried implementing that a while ago, but it wasn't a popular suggestion. But a few more members and moderators have suggested we implement it, so I'll add it to the to-do list. Which will be addressed after we sort out this enforcement scheme stuff.

Alcar...

I understand people who keep doing that. they should get a warning if they always offend. So far I haven't seen anyone greet new people in a rude fashion. I try my best to do it like oddish and WiLL making banners.I make a smilie for the new guy. Maybe if people kept it simple on the welcome forum with ''Hi there welcome to the forums!'' that problem would'nt exist . I have seen allot of nastiness when people leave though

I believe something about nastiness in returning threads/new comers came up. That reminds me, I need to create a new thread of niceness offering back there. And possibly update the posting tips/spam reminders in Off Topic. I s'pose whatever happens with this will happen, and will wind up however. But the the arguments are just running around in circles now, and the bottom line seems to be missed.

Choosing the blunt path of spam enforcment was most likely not on the smart side, as something so sudden would surely create a nasty backlash.

Trying to fight it and start a "revolution" is equally silly, will get no where, and merely looses face for everyone.

My solution here? We've stated our opinions, nothing is changing. Delete the Crackdown announcment or whatever, and put up in place ot it, a nicer sounding reminder to keep posts relevant and on topic. Close the 3 or so threads here in the FS & H. If it's still needed at all, create an thread of nice debate if any further concerns arise. Because as of now, the effort for laxing down is just as futile as the effort for staying uber strict. And right now, this is that last thing we want. With the mod elections coming up, and increasing publicity for Stranger, constant bickering and a hard ass attitude are both big no no's.

If our staff just sticks to what we need to, covering out own areas well enough, and a new stranger kin gets worked up, we'll have a clean jump into the rush for the next game. Whenever it decides it wants to come out.

Haha... I just made that Revolution thread so we could actually see how many was with or against the law. I just like calling it revolution, like alcar likes to the law enforcement The Lawenforcement.
I wasn't trying to make a big revolution... I just wanted a clear message what members think, an overall list of what they want best. The revolution was just a cool title.

And yes... Now that i actually think about it... It actually the nasty posters that scares members away. I think it's apity that there always has to be someone who says something like: "oh no, not another Noob" or " Do not have a good time here"
And stuff like that. What happened to our nice members?
But then again... Members ARE leaving becouse oft the law. Many Members has posted their goodbye, and said that they wehre leaveing becouse of the law.

Heh. Rude posters. Psh.

Anybody who takes any amount of time to associate posts with names should know my stance on that. *evil glare* Be nice, people. Or I'll have your buttox's on a silver platter next to the roasted pig.