Re: Vegetarianism
 

Well actually yes I have done that Sid, at my friends farm I watched him slice the head off a cow, though I don't think I could do it personally simply because I’m not experienced, I wanted it to have a quick swift death, it had of been done by me it wouldn’t have been tortured to death.

I really don't see why you are attacking meat eaters anyway, what do you indeed to accomplish by trying to make us feel guilty about what we eat? You have been consuming alcohol, and smoking weed and cigarettes before you were over the legal age right? You don't see me criticizing you about it, what you want do consume is entirely up to you no one else.

Using drugs affects only you - nothing dies needlessly in the process. And secondary smoke doesn't count if smokers are responsible enough. The 'lecture' is somewhat justified because carnivores result in the death of creatures - it's not a belief, but a fact.

I'm inclined to say that Sydney did come on a little harsh, but this sort of argument won't have any effect if it's passive and neutral.

Good point, but I still don't see were this topic is going, what are Sid's intentions? The only one I can think of is that his trying to feel meat eaters guilty, and we should stop A.S.A.P.

Point taken. But like I've said about three times already now, I was deliberately trying to provoke some heartfelt discussion, as the forums were getting quiet.See above.¹What I was trying to say is that I protest to meat eating being a personal choice that must be respected, because in choosing to eat meat you are stripping another being of its choice to live. It's absurd that you expect respect but don't give it to those you eat. My sibling analogy was intended to make you see things from my perspective, in that you feel obliged to protect those who are being taken advantage of by pleasure-seekers. ²No, the baby-eating argument is not weak. Note that I didn't compare eating meat to eating babies, I only used it to show the futility of an argument revolving around morals.

ZombieX covered paramiteabe's post, so I'll skip it.I am attacking meat-eaters because they attack animals. As I've said countless times already, I'm merely pointing out the realities of your decisions. I just want to make people aware that meat eating is not essential, and that the reasons for meat-eating are based in selfishness.Marijuana, tobacco and alcohol were never conscious beings with thoughts, feelings and emotions. The things I consume never had brains. You're forgetting that the animals you eat may not want to be consumed, so is it right for you to do so? If the things I consume are entirely up to me, then why not drop around my house and offer your brain for me to sautée. On second thoughts, it might not be much of a meal.My transition from omnivore to a vegetarian began with originally eliminating red meat from my diet, then I eventually stopped eating fish and chicken. I suggest investing in a simple vegetarian cookbook, it will give you a lot of ideas on what to eat. As for altering your diet, just make sure you eat plenty of greens. There's plenty of wonderful soy products available. Since giving up meat I feel fresher, lighter and more motivated.

There are some people who don't know better too! Your saying that all humans know better? What about rapist? Murders? Theives? Your saying that they know better? If they do, then why do those things?

P.S., not all animals kill their food. Have you ever heard of scavengers who feed on dead animals?


When my mom cooks like chicken or something and we have no vegetables, I have no choice but to eat the chicken. My mom also brings alot of chicken and stuff around the house, and I can't say to my mom "Stop briging meat around the house!" She would look at me like I am crazy. Does that make me selfish, lazy and ignorant then? It's like your saying that any reason, no matter what the situations are of eating meat, it makes you selfish, lazy and ignorant. I know I'm not these things. Your only making yourself look crazy by calling people who eat meat these things. And some of the foods I eat are based upon my puerto-rican/African culture!

Also, I don't eat that much beef.

ANd Dan, when Stat talk about take care of your own health, he meant to worry about YOUR OWN health and not the health of other people.

P.s, sorry if I edit too much.

When you move out of home things get easier. After I got my own place I found that the price of meat sort of dictated my diet - and so I've mainly lived on vegetables dishes and bread as a snack.

How about fish, though? I know it's generally not considered a meat because many people see them on the same level as plants, but that shouldn't necessarily dictate their fate.

Yeah I love fish also. Fish is quite healthy.

Meat - the flesh of animals. If a fish isn't an animal it's either a plant, a fungi, a protoetist or a monera. As far as I'm aware, fish do not photosynthesise, nor are there any single-cellular fish.

Does this mean I have to wait 4 years before I can become vegetarian? But what advice do you give a wannabe vegetarian who is still at the mercy of his parents' cooking, considering these parents' shun my grandparents for being veggie?

Oo... too many posts. I read almost everything, but I'm only going to answer PinkHaired now...

You're always saying that people on the forums don't know you, and yes, that is true, they haven't meat you IRL and it can be that they don't really know you, but still... you get a quite good image from 2405 posts. Plus the ones on Ezboard... I don’t think anyone would waste their time so much just to post thousands of posts saying stuff they don’t agree with… so we do have an image of your personality and beliefs. And of your lack of knowledge in some issues, as well… I said I know a lot more facts on this issue than you do, and I believe I do. Because according to your posts, you don’t know the facts.

Exactly where have I been assuming stuff or haven't known what I am talking about? Of course there are many things from which I don't know anything about, but I haven’t been posting to any topics like that on the forums, because of my lack of information in these subjects. What comes to this particular quote, I am not assuming anything. I’m just referring to past topics about this issue, where you have argued about if we are animals or not and the differences between other animals and us. You were saying it there. Anyway, I'm sorry if I confused you. I just remember the old topics and what was said in there and while typing I can’t be sure if something was said in this or some other topic…

Yes, I know. I’m sorry. Read through my posts carefully and you can see I haven’t forced anyone to not eating meat! What I’ve said is that you don’t have to eat meat to be healthy.
You have ? Well, good for you, then…

It is? I know, I shouldn’t bother, but I haven’t been active in the forums for long time, so now I’ve got too much energy and I just can’t resist. I know it’s pointless, though…

Whoah! Hold your horses! You have obviously missed my point. Again. *sigh* I have never said that all meat-eaters are lazy and ignorant. I called you ignorant, because you don't know the facts! Not because you eat meat. You keep saying, that you have to eat meat to stay healthy, which is not true. Why I called you lazy, is that you don't go and study the facts! You obviously don't know them, but you don't go and find out, no. What you do is keep arguing with the same false arguments. I'm not saying you're a bad person, because you eat meat. I just don't like it, that you defend your eating habits by saying that you must eat meat, which isn't true.

Yes, I am a lazy hippie. :p

Yes, I do know. Unlike you don't know that veggies don't eat just fruit and vegetables. [referring to an old topic again, sorry if it gets too complicated for you...]

Wrong again... I've been a vegetarian for five months and in that time I have gained weight. 10 kg, to be precise. :fuzemb: *eep*

We are not talking about rapists and murderers in here. No, I'm not saying all humans know better. [Actually, I personally think we are the stupidest animal species around. Killing and hurting each other, other animals and our own planet.] I was saying we know better [not everyone, of course, e.g. you] in the issue, that we can survive and be healthy without eating meat. *wonders how many times she has already posted that sentence on this thread* *sighs*

*sigh* Yes, I have.

What is your point in this, again? Actually, that's a lot better, than killing the animals yourself.

Don't you have your own mind in U.S.? It isn't your mom's choice, it's yours. Just say you want to eat the freaking meat and stop making excuses!

Look above. Never have said such a thing.

I eat traditional Finnish foods as well. Without meat.

There's some facts that I don't know, but not everything I imply to, I don't have the facts to. Do you have the facts all the time?


Apology excepted. I have over-reacted also too. But you can't always bring up old topics. The past is the past you should let them go. Especially if there are apologies made in the topic and you want to forgive and forget the situation. Your not really forgiving and forgetting if you keep briging up the same thing and it gets old pretty quick and quite annoying.

Wow, look at the facts other people have. "I eat meat because it makes me fell good," "Nutrition." I'm not ignorant or lazy because I know my facts and you don't know any of my research habits. I did not say I have to eat meat to stay healthy! You did not even read my post correctly. I eat meat for the nutrition and I don't eat meat alone! I have like salad or vegetables with it. And what type of facts are you talking about? Besides arguing with the same issue, you need to explain more on what you mean by your so-called "facts". What am I going to research? "20 answers why not to eat meat ?" Or "20 questions to eat meat?" It's a choice to eat meat you don't need to research that's stupid. Research on what? If you tell me I could research but you never told me what I should research that's why I called you ignorant ! You need to think before you act and before you call someone ignorant for no reason and lazy because it's going to get you into a lot of mess.


Who said that. Hmmm, well their nothing else to eat..what about Dairy? Or meat? If you just don't eat fruits and vegetables, what else is their to eat besides dairy and candy. I've seen some veggies sneek a hamburger and eat it under the table a few times.

Don't count candy and doritos and chocolate! Of course your going to gain weight! Aduh. I've just eaten like fruits and vegetables for a week (for a diet) and I did'nt gain any weight. I was healthy still.

Wow, can't say that you don't know better. since you know me so well...then you think I don't know better.:D

Duh everyone has a mind of their own. I was just referring to the rules of the house. If your parents say something, then it's going to be done because it's their house. If I have my own house I would run my own way! Bwahahahahha!

I was talking to Sydman.

And your point may be? Name one spanish food that does not have meat in it? except maybe a few but they taste nasty. i can't eat them without gagging. LOL!!!

Not to be a downer, Faz, but finnish food without meat isn't traditional unless the finnish fod didn't have meat in it to begin with.
I don't see what the hooplah is about. And their definately is hooplah, dammit! I can smell hooplah a mile away! So, what you vegetarians are trying to do is make us your bretheren. I don't see how calling meat eaters greedy and just generally being bitches about the topic is going to convert anyone.Im sorry for calling you names and insulting your beliefs as happy horseshit.
I won't call it happy horseshit as long as you lay off the name calling and insulting too!

Like I said, I can't remember all the time if something's said in this topic or somewhere else :p, but I do agree on that, that you shouldn't dig someone's old post back, because his/her opinions may have changed, so sorry for that. I don't know if you have changed your mind on that or not...


Yes, I read your post correctly... So you're saying that you don't have to eat meat to stay healthy, but you need to eat it for nutrition? Aren't they the same thing? I meen... if you want to stay healthy, you have to eat like nutrition tells you. So I don't get what you mean with this... I know you don't eat meat alone. I already said it in my previous post. Of course you don't eat just meat. Why on earth would I think something like that?!

Okey. By facts I mean facts about human body and nutrition. What we need to survive? And that you can get everything you need without eating meat. And vegans, who don't eat or drink anything, which comes from an animal, can get everything they need from their diet, except for vitamin B-12.

Nothing else to eat? There are plenty of things to eat! I eat everything, except for meat, so that still leaves you with a lot of options. You just said yourself that you eat many other things than meat. So... there are still many other things to eat. I do eat dairy, yes. I'm an ovo-lacto-vegetarian, which means I do eat eggs and dairy. Other wise it'd be too difficult for my mother and everyone. When I'm moving on my own, I'll probably turn to vegan.

Well, they aren't real veggies then. I don't eat hamburgers under the table, except for veggie burgers of course, which I do eat, but I'm sure you meant meat-ones.

Well it isn't healthy to eat just fruit and vegetables! Just make sure you don't make yourself sick! I'm on a diet as well, but I'm making sure I'll stay healthy. And besides, you said you're skinny... so why on earth would you need a diet? *mumbles something about the stupid world we're living in, where women are supposed to look like barbie dolls*

You don't always have to do like they say, you know! :D But a decicion that big is something you should be able to do, if you want to. And I was able to. Although we shouted and cried with my mother and she and my sister tried to talk me out of it, but I had my way in the end. Because they love me and respect my choice, because it means much to me. And you can always compromise. Like I'm a vegetarian as long as I live with my parents and I'm turning to vegan later...

Comprehend. I didn't read all the posts through... ;)

Well I'm not an expert on Spanish food. :p And I don't know probably any Finnish foods either, which contain no meat. I meant, that I cook the typical foods, but replace the meat with beans or soy etc...

Well, I've read almost all of this argument. Since I can't really be botherd to particapate in the discussion, I will only put my point of view foward. . .
Eating meat isn't wrong. I only don't eat meat because of the way the animals are kept, and the way they are slaughterd. The only meat I do eat is Tuna (and I don't eat very much of it), because suffocating to death is better then being ripped to shreads from limb to limb while still alive. I addmitedly eat Tuna purely for selfish reasons, since I don't need to eat it. Also, recently I've been trying to ween myself off of ordinary cows milk, and onto organic milk and soya milk. The way they produce ordinary cows milk isn't very nice, since they take the calves away from thier mothers. I don't think they take the calves away from the cows on the organic farms, but I'm not too sure. I'm gonna go find out for myself soon, though.
I also eat cheese, which is another dairy product. And yes, I only eat cheese for selfish reasons. Oh, and I never eat eggs if they aren't free range.
Anyway, I belive that you probably should go and hunt and kill the animal yourself before you eat it, and kill it in a humane way. I'd do it, but I don't because:
1. There isn't anything to hunt around here, save for grey squirrels, foxes and wood pidgeons (Ugh! :sick: ).
2. I don't need to. There are plenty of vegatarian products for sale everywhere, so I can get enough nutrition off of them.
3. I've been vegatarian all my life, and I'm not used to meat.
I think thats about it.
- DH

That last comment was below the belt, and yes it is entirely up to you what you want to consume along as it's ready to be eaten or smoked ect ect... Stop trying to make your self feel good about your diet by attacking meat eaters.

Its interesting. Fruit and Veg are plants and plants are living beings also...yet people are willing to eat them because they dont show no emotion etc.

On a different note Marijuana comes from a plant and thus was a concious being. Who knows whether plants can think or not...nobody knows for certain. Its basically like saying "This Rock is not alive" how do we know? Just because it doesn't have a heart etc doesn't mean its not alive. People assume to much...and when brought up with certain points they disregard them, thinking their way is right etc or ethicly correct.

I dont have a prob with meat eaters, i dont agree with the slaughter of certain animals however and the way that they are killed. I personally believe that to be wrong, if the animal feels pain...i dont like it. But i wont give up eating something just because its hurting the animal.

Vitamin K is a fat-soluble vitamin that plays an important role in blood clotting

Wow, if you weren't too busy judging me and calling me names, you would know more about me! I know my human anatomy and nutrition. I know my fat and water soluble vitamin. You don't know if I am doing research so stop saying that I am not because you do not know what I am doing! Vitamin k is good for clotting and the bones; D for the skin; C for the immune system; E for oxidation; A for eyes, hair, nails and skin; Fiber to clean out your system because you cannot digest fiber; Biotin helps convert food to energy required for the synthesis of carbohydrates, proteins, and fatty acids, healthy hair, skin, and nails. cell growth.nerve tissue and sweat glands;B vitamins should be taken as a complex and not individually unless specially recommended; B vitamins maintain the health of the metabolism, skin, hair and muscle, immune and nervous system, eyes, liver, digestion system. I know that stuff! I know every vitamin and mineral known to man! I took nutrition classes before. So before you call some one ignorant and lazy, ask people first if they know anything about nutrition and the human body.

Then what are you arguing about?! Your saying that we should eat fruits and vegetables and meat is bad. And yes, I want a shape like Barbie. But I love my stick-figure big boobs and by big butt body!:D

Eating meat to me is not wrong. It's fine unless you abuse it, yeah then it is bad.

I mean c'mon, you probably have eaten a hamburger once in a blue mood. Or once in your lifetime. Can you resist the mouth-watering temptation? I mean, some veggies give in. Your not going to be a perfect veggie all the time.

Yes...cos we have had enough of those damn Meat-a-holics. Damn them.

(Just incase my tone of voice doesn't get through there i have rated that sentence a 'S' for Sarcasm.)

Like I've said countless times, the argument for eating meat because it allows you to live another day is flawed. I haven't eaten meat for years, yet I'm alive and well - there's your proof that it isn't essential for you to survive. You are not respecting the animals you eat, because you're not acknowledging that they don't want to die.Because most of society is based around pleasure-seeking. The fact is most people find meat tastes nice, and aren't willing to give it up becuse they are selfish. That is what my whole argument is about.I'm not quite sure how this supports your agument, as on average, vegetarians live longer than those who eat meat.You've completely missed my point. I asked meat-eaters to kill the animals they eat because the process of killing another living being is shocking. I was protesting that the majority of those who eat meat are detatched from the process of slaughter.Marijuana comes from a plant and thus was a conscious being? I don't know if I should take you seriously, Jacob. The most stupid argument I have ever heard that attempts to villify vegetarians is that "plants have feelings, too." If you're going to declare something, you're going to need something to back it up. Using your logic:

Cornelius: We shouldn't visit the moon because we will squash the invisible unicorns living there!

Penelope: But there are no invisible unicorns on the moon!

Cornelius: But nobody knows for certain...

The burden of proof remains with you. Take a class in biology before you claim that plants have feelings.

Okay, I remember this topic in bits and pieces, and I can't be bothered quoting you all... plus it would make my post look twice as long, which isn't pretty.

At some point it was mentioned that you can't become a vegetarian whilst living with your parents. This sounds to me like you have a very oppressive regime in your household. Surely when you are shopping with them you could pick up some preffered meat substitutes... or if you don't shop with them just do it yourself. Tell them you don't wan't to eat meat, explain why, and move on. Unless you are completely lazy and just let your parents do EVERYTHING for you.

Someone also said that vegetarians should go out and pick their own vegetables... I can do that, I've done that. But it misses the point of why you were asked if you could slaughter your own food. (Which I've witnessed, and could not do, by the way). It takes another kind of mental strength to take away another life. As for the general slaughter being painless, you couldn't be more wrong. Cows are herded happlessly and helplessly to the slaughter house. A bolt is swiftly shot into their head before they're strung up and bled etc. You try having a bolt shot in your head. In a recent investigation a number of American slaughterhouses were discovered to have LIVE cows strung up: the bolt didn't kill them... I can't remember the exact details, but if you're desperate I'm sure I could root out the article.

The difference between animals and plants is that animals have CONSCIOUSNESS.. a brain. Humans, also having a consciousness, can sympathize with other animals. Anyways, I won't go further down that road.

Continuing with the analogy used throughout this debate, if humans dislike murder, why isn't there a wide spread push in human society to stop that? Okay, we have police forces, but we just leave it all up to them. How many of us, if we walked down a street and saw a violent murder taking place by a gang of thugs would rush in and stop it? Most of us would scurry away and call the cops when the guy's dead.

Okay, that was a bad analogy... but look at it this way, a lot of you eat meat, right? If YOU knew plant matter contains all the same nutritional values as meat, would you stop eating meat? If the answer was yes, you'd better stop now. Anyways I'm not really putting myself accross clearly here.


Although I doubt that's because they don't eat meat. More likely the fact they are vegetarian means they are concerned with their health, therefore they live a healthier lifestyle. But then not eating meat helps.. with macdonalds and burger king making their fast foods ever more fattening. I'd like to add I used to hate macdonalds anyways. Still do, in fact.


Well, I'll shut up now. I've found this topic very interesting. I've also seen some stupid, arrogant, ignorant, selfish, hypocritical, commendable, original, clever and downright weird views from both "sides" of the debate. It's a pity some people have taken it so personally. God I sound like a moron don't I?

One more pointless observation, totally unrelated, and I mean no offence by this, but:
This just struck me as being very arrogant and self centred. I don't know why, but I think it could be all the "I"s and "me"s included. Plus the fact someone who took nutrition classes and was loudly and emotionally proving it didn't even seem to know much more than me. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure this person does know a lot more, but it's a pity they couldn't have said something more bafflingly scientifically unusually, that no-one understands but everyone sits in awe at, if you see what I mean. Oh, and I don't think I know every vitamin and mineral known to man.

Anyways, I'm rambling now. :(

Like I said, these are parents that shun my grandparents for being vegeatarian. As far as they're aware, they've no clue whatsoever that I'm questioning my own dietary habits, and I don't really want to ruin a perfectly harmonious relationship, although I certainly do want to prove I can overcome my selfishness and state my disgust at the animal slaughter industry some time in the very near future.

Have any substantial evidence that suggests there is no such thing as invisible Unicorns?

I was basically saying that before veggies have a go at meateaters and vice versa to take into consideration that everything we eat, smoke, drink etc will have come from a living thing. And it is not absurd to believe that all living things have feelings...and thus, whatever we eat, drink, smoke etc we will be having something killed.

Everything? Even water? And salt?

Then again, they are the only two consunables I can think of that haven't come from a living thing.

But I really don't think plants have any mental abilities. For one thing they have no brain, no ganglia and no nervous system. Their ability to sense stimuli such as light and water and their ability to react by growing towards them are achieved chamically rather than electrically, and any plant that does move itself (venus flytraps, for instance) do so by unavoidable mechanism, not decision.

But then again, it's entirely possible that their exists a soul that can exist despite the limits of the physical world. I just don't believe it.

And rocks being capable of thought is just silly.

That's how you learn things in the first place by going to school, and it does not prove that you know more than me because you don't know anyone's IQ status to say that.

Yes, but how is that relevant, since you get vitamin K from fresh vegetables, cereals, etc? Vegetarians don't lack vitamin K.

I haven't been judging you. At least not because of your meat-eating. Well you haven't showed your info on these subjects, because you have said you have to eat meat for nutrition, which is not true! You know your vitamins, etc, good. But you obviously don't know all the sources, where you can get these vitamins from. Vegeterians don't lack any vitamins and vegans only lack vitamin B12, which is the only vitamin that is not present in plant foods.

I'm not saying meat is bad. I don't want to eat it, because I think it's wrong.

*argh*
Well obviously you don't learn... It isn't healthy to eat just vegetables and fruits, but vegetarians don't eat just fruit and veggies! We eat vegetables, fruit, bread, cereal, rice, pasta, beans, nuts, seeds, milk, cheese, soy products, fats, oils, sweets, crisps, etc. Everything except meat. I can't understand how people always think that all food in the world ends, if meat is taken away.

Well poor you. I don't let commercial and marceting industries determine what I should look like.

You've said this many times, so just out of curiousity, what do you mean by "abusing meat"?

No, I havent. Once in my life time, yes. I've eaten many hamburgers in my life time, since I did eat meat for over 17 years of my life. Yes, I can resist it. Actually, it isn't a temptation at all. I'm more disgusted my the smell of meat nowadays. I don't know that and so don't you, but I'm planning on being one. If I'd like to eat meat, I'd eat it, but I don't.

*mmm... the mouth-watering tempation... something smells good* :p *goes off to eat veggie-risotto, which she just cooked for herself*

It is relevant. You were talking about nutrition and knowing the facts. Well, vitamins is the sources of nutrition. I thought you knew that. and I did not say that veggies lack vitamin k. You don't listen at all.

You have too judge me by calling me names for no apparent reason. I can eat meat for the nutrition. You said it was not true. You can eat meat for plenty of reasons. One, you like the taste or two, your open-minded and like to try new things. I eat meat and I don't have any vitamin deficiencies. You can get B vitamins from bread. Did you not know that? You don't have to eat plants in order to have the vitamin B. I don't know the sources to were to get them well let's see here and let me get this info outta my brain:

Vitamin A; Orange and yellow vegetables and fruits; dark-green leafy vegetables; whole milk, cream, egg yolks and butter; and animal livers, fish liver oils, garlic, and alfalfa.

Vitamin B (complex at least); meats, fish, poultry, brewer's yeast, eggs, beans and peas, dark-green leafy vegetables, bread, whole-grain cereals, and dairy product.

Vitamin C;Citrus fruits, berries, rose hips, capsicum, strawberries, broccoli, rockmelons, tomatoes, and leafy greens.

Vitamin D; Fatty fish such as herring, salmon, and tuna, dairy products, eggs, summer sun, and breakfast cereals.

Vitamin E; I know that Cold pressed vegetable oils, nuts, dark-green leafy vegetables, organic meats, seafood, eggs, and avocados have it.

Vitamin K; Spinach, asparagus, cabbage, brussels sprouts, cauliflower, broccoli, turnip greens, or other dark leafy vegetables, beef, liver; green tea; cheese, egg yolks, and oats.

Well, that's what you think. I don't think like you do.

I don't think you learn or listen to what I am trying to say. You CAN'T eat just fruits and veggies! I already knew that you said that so many times. I don't think that the world is going to end if I live without meat. I love meat to add alittle spice in my tastebuds life! Ya happy! I confess! Bwahahahahaha! OYE YI YI YI! MUCHO SALUD!

Wow, are you that insecure with yourself. You don't love your body? I will never trade it with all the reductions in the world baby! BTW, I was only kidding you should of noticed the sarcasim there I've always had this body. If my pants get a little tucked, what do you do? excersise! It's not like I am looking at a Barbie aerobics tape.

abuse it my meaning eating too much. It's like taking an iron supplement. It's okay for you if you take one tablet. but on the back it saids not to take an overdose because it's toxic. Like meat, it's okay to eat meat but not like meat after meat after meat. You can get heart-attacks or cardiac arrest and stuff.

Yeah, maybe tres in your lifetime! I've been eating meat for 17 years and I am fine. Well, if you lack vitamin B so much, take a bit outta crime! Bwaahahhaahah!:D:D

True... but since animals do feel true pain, I have decided to stop eating both them and plants and live on an exclusive diet of bricks.

I do listen. And yes, I knew that. I just thought you were saying that you can get them only from meat or something. It was alone in the top and not with the other vitamin things, so I thought your point was there...

Yes, you can eat meat for the nutrition, but you don't have to it and you're still eating everything you need to. That's what I've been saying.

I am open minded. Very open minded, actually. And I love trying new things! Also new foods. I just don't want to eat meat any more, so I wont be trying new meat foods. Geez, what a lost...

I know many sources, where you can get vitamin B from. I've done my studying.

Good, so you do know you don't have to eat meat to get them.

Good. You just didn't seem to know, because you said:
No, I'm not insecure with my body. I do love my body as nature created it, and I could never take any implants or anything into my body and change it just because I should look like everyone else. I don't need to look like everyone else. If someone wants a Barbie doll -body, that person isn't insecure and happy with herself.

So you were kidding about wanting a barbie doll body, because you've already got one...? Or there was the sarcasm and you don't have one..?

Thank you. Now I know what you've been talking about.

I've been eating meat for 17 years as well, and I'm fine too. I never said I wasn't. And I never said, I lack vitamin B. I don't. I said vegeterian's don't lack any vitamins. If they're eating proparly of course, and I am.

I was joking about being like Barbie. I don't wan too I am happy the way God made me. I would never change my body for anything.

SOme of them.

It seem like you were saying that we should eat fruits and vegetables only!

THen you have to be 20 or something because that's a big chunk of meat eating of your life. You haven't been a veggie too long to see any difference.

Good. :) That's a healthy way of thinking.

NO. You can get all of them without eating meat.

How can it seem like that?!

I have said:
I am 18. And if I can't see the difference in myself, I can see it in my veggie friends, who have been without meat longer than me.

Not evvverthing.

Yeah, skinny and white as snow! I mean, they need a tan.

Yes, everything.

No, they are not skinny. Nor white. I said "if I can't see the difference in myself, I can see it in my veggie friends". But what I meant was I could see the difference. There isn't one! Except that they feel healthier and better about themself, but you can't see anything from the outside. All veggies are not skinny and pale and there are many meat-eaters, who are skinny and pale. It isn't about the diet, it's about if you follow the diet and eat all the right foods, or not.

That's how you learn things in the first place by going to school
I know.

and it does not prove that you know more than me because you don't know anyone's IQ status to say that.
I never said it proved I knew more than you. I don't claim to, and I'm sure you know more than me.

I was pointing out that in my twisted opinion it sounded like you were trying to prove you knew a heck of a lot about nutrition, but in doing so sounded like you knew no more than me, who knows very little about nutrition.

Or something like that. It was not designed to cause offence. I'm very sorry for any caused, and take back all comments. Please forgive me. Peace out? :)

I forgive you. When I read it the second time, I knew it was'nt offensive. Nice belly button.

I know that, and I responded by saying that I do take care of my own health, simply by being vegetarian.

If you know that you don't know the facts, why do you make out that you do?

Hamburgers are one of the foulest and most disgusting foods ever created by man. Mouth-watering temptation? Don't make me laugh...

************************

Never assume, Zombie, never assume... This is Pinky we're talking about here, remember...

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha... No, seriously, read her posts before making assumptions like that... :D

Why don't you eat a hamburger and other protein-enriched foods to make that bald spot you have to grow! I hear that hair looooves protein. LOL No I'm kidding clown man. I really don't eat alot of beef. Too greasy. I really eat fish and chicken.

I said some things...Duuuuuuhhhhh, Your not going to know everything.

I am a vegetarian and I agree with every radical vegetarian idea out there. I don't drink milk, either. Milk is wack! McDonald's is wack! Ahhh! Too many carnivores! All our hunger problems would be solved if we stopped raising animals. Vegetables are infinetely more effiecient to produce. And what happens when this lust for flesh (not to criticize lust, I'm just talking about meat) goes too far? What happens when we're next? When population outstrips food production? Has anyone seen Soylent Green?

Yes, this topic has died. Cause of death: the inability for meat-eaters to justify their diet.