No moral qualms? Is an embryo really just a cluster of cells? Were you once a bundle of cells? I was. Plus, the idea that it is morally righteous to kill in the sake of saving (potentially) here is revolting. Now what would one do with the cells once they harvested them? In a recent study, people given stem cells taken from embryos had horrible after effects. Case in point: Alzheimer's patients were given stem cells from embryos to get certain chemical giving cells and they were left worse off before, convolsing disabled wrecks of their former selves. The cells simply worked too fast for their own good and mentally and physically crippled the patients. Isn't it true that a scientist can much easier get non disabling stem cells from adults,placentas, and umbilical cords. I don't think it is right to clone simply for the slight chance of medical benefit. Face it:Nobody knows crud about how to use stem cells without potentially damaging people. Shouldn't we just leave the creating to the one who did the creating in the first place? I'm reminded of a joke. A scientist walks up to God and says,"God, you are now obsolete. We can create life through science and make just about anything else for that matter. In fact I can create a man with DIRT!" "Okay, says God," Let's have us an' old fashioned man making contest. First one to do it wins." The scientist stoops down to get some soil and God says"Not so fast buster, get your own supplies!"

PLEASE don't bring god(or any other diety) into this. also not knowing how to do something is the best reason to do it.

Thanks, Dragadon, for not taking offense (at least it seems you didn't) at my post. I don't generally relish engaging in controversial topics but somehow I got worked up by this one. I later hoped that I had not come on too strong.

I realize that Rettick was talking about the environmental influences on what a person eventually becomes, and I agree with his point that a genetically identical person would be somewhat different (primarily personality-wise, as you point out) by virtue of it being impossible to experience the same upbringing. My point was that scientists doing cloning research weren't particularly interested in that aspect -- that they were focused on reproducing identical sets of genes. I was probably taking offense at his suggestion that some of us didn't really understand what a clone was, which I shouldn't have done. Heck, between this stem-cell stuff and what the real point of all this research really is, it's pretty confusing. But interesting to think about.

No prob Doug. It takes a lot to get me upset...and what you posted didn't upset me in the least. If it's one thing I do is respect others opinions and I expect the same from others (though not everyone does unfortunately...I am not saying anyone here doesn't). I normally don't get this involved in debates...as I see them mostly as 'no-wins' (like trying to beat a dead horse to death ya know?).

Its actually hard for me to keep talking about it without seeming to contradict myself. I think this is mainly because I think too much into the issue and look at both sides of the coin as it were. I suppose it is a unique trait of mine and one of the reasons why I am seem so 'uncaring' at times (I really do think I am an emotionless rock sometimes...ugh).

Yes I agree that this issue can be rather confusing...my head goes in many directions at once on topics like this so its hard to formulate an opinion. I often end up taking a neutral stance and just stay out of it. Example: Abortion: One the one hand I see it as a method of population control, but should be used only in cases of rape, incest, and health. On the other...it is still denying a new life from experiencing the wonders (and terrors) of the world...I mean...if the female didn't want the child there is always putting it up for adoption for crying out loud!
(now I was just using that as an example...I wasn't opening it up for debate!)

See what I mean? It makes my head hurt trying to figure what to say on a topic like this...
Blah...I got off topic...sorry. But before I leave...
Ditto to what Steve said...PLEASE don't bring religion into this debate! It would only end up in a religious debate and we are here to debate cloning not religion...

Thankee for filling in the gaps in my explanation. Urrgh, I'm getting forgetful in my old age.

EDIT: Everything I said here previously had either been said by someone else already or was simply not true. Oops.

[ November 29, 2001: Message edited by: Rettick ]