What counts as a 'real speedrunner'?

Also, at least 15 of the 30 odd people in the server actively 'speedrun' an Oddworld title. The others previously did or rarely 'speedrun' Oddworld games. Don't forget to include commentators, collaborators and people who are active in the general Oddworld discord who come by to learn more about what we do and to find a quick and easy link to when one of us is running.

All is cool Tool :)

I feel that if Kap wanted to apologise he would have already done it by now, and there's clearly no getting through to Vlam, but I guess trolls will be trolls! I guess it's a good thing you both felt the twang of the banhammer!
I have no interest in discussing this any further with either of you. We are clearly on different wavelengths, and neither of you deserve my time any longer

Mods, you may do your thing :p

Sometime ago i said following:

Also why are you "bossing" mods? If you are not interested of discussing then you can leave this alone.

For the record, I'm a real speedrunner:

In honesty, I don't think you're even taking this seriously. If you had an ounce of sympathy, then you would have apologised by now my friend. I think the only reason things have spiralled is because you are feeling salty you got caught, and the longer this goes on, the more it is going to escalate, and I have no interest in peddling your ego any longer.

And I'm not 'bossing' the mods. I'm asking them to kindly do what they have the power to do and close the thread, as there is really nothing else that can be accomplished here

Reminder: you're the one who is bullying Kapteeni.

Thanks for the reminder dude. I'll file it next to the 40-50 banned discord accounts, the unwanted friends requests on discord that members got daily, the unnecessary whispers whilst Myself and other streamers are streaming, the images of things I wouldn't show my parents that I've had sent to me privately and of course the defaming videos.....

But seriously man, as always, your input isn't necessary

Oh well then i'm sorry if i hurted you single person.

Well, it has nothing to do with OWF. Reminder: you're the one who made this thread... On OWF. It isn't a "defaming video", you did cheat.

*forehead, meet brick wall*

The trick Sam did was completely legal in the run.

'Glitchless' is just the name of the category, it doesn't necessarily mean that no glitches are used which is why we are proposing to change the name to 'No Major Skips'.

All you have to do is look at the rules on speedrun.com to figure that out.

I've said this a few times now to both of you, so it's beyond me how you can still be confused about this.

I give you that. It's confusing to call run glitchless if the run has glitches.

Well, as a speedrunner myself I know what is "authorized cheating".

We spent many hours updating the Exoddus page to a quality standard due to the increased popularity of the game. With experimentation, we fixed most of the problems, figured out some new categories to run and updated the rules to represent our findings.

Because Oddysee is still a fairly unpopular game to run, we have yet to give it the re-design and rule changing it needs. The game constantly crashes and removes trap doors for reasons we can't quite grasp. In time, I'm sure Oddysee will receive the same treatment Exoddus got, and we can address the 'glitch' in the video you posted among plenty of other things.

Well, keep in mind that in these oddworld fan forums, not all active members are huge fans of Oddworld.

I never saw this video before it was unlisted. With that said though - it's hard to really know who's right and wrong on this aspect of the matter. I'm actually beginning to lean towards it being that these "speedrunners" probably were being stupid with the whole "authorized cheating" so they could make a "glitchless run" by using some kind of unrecognized or unprohibited glitch. If that's really what happened, that's stupid, I agree. The more you have to explain your actions and why you did them, the more clear it is you're full of shit and are aware of it - or just know that the methods which enabled you were shady. I don't think I'd like this content, but that also boils it down to just being me - I don't really care much for the speed-runner scene to begin with. It's just not my thing. But still, everything else done here was still wrong - especially the targeted messages towards someone with mental disabilities. Make fun of someone for their actions, not how they're born.


You mean by making this thread? Okay yeah this was basically them calling the guy out. But eh, maybe he deserved to be called out. I'm on the fence about that.


Everyone's input is necessary, and the person you're accusing has the right to defend himself. Everyone on this Earth, in every situation, deserves the right to speak. Don't be an asshole - you guys are the ones who made accounts almost exclusively to bash this guy on our forums. Maybe he did something wrong enough to deserve this kind of bitter vindictiveness, but still, don't push it.


...The first part here I sort of agree with. But honestly, this second bit pisses me off. I don't know, maybe they were both wrong and were both harassing you. But this comes off as really narcissistic. Also, now that I've seen this play out I'm not really sure what you expected to happen with this thread besides what you got, and it could have been a lot more volatile honestly. So the whole "lol mods please lock this thread now k bye" sounds like you really were just hoping to get this thread locked with your message being the last word in. Kind of ironic how you guys were accusing our guy for "defamation of character" and "getting things out of context" if that's kind of exactly what was wanted here.

And don't start with the "we just wanted to clear our names" plotline again. I think it's pretty obvious that was just the excuse to make this thread and wait for a response.

Hey Vlam: Shut up!

These speedrun pussies seem a bit too sensitive for this forum. Vlam is a person who tells the truth as he sees it, but you guys can't grasp the fact that someone isn't catering to your emotions so you're dismissing him as a troll so you don't have to think about your responses.

I'm not on any side here; in fact, the fact that people are even taking 'sides' just proves you're a bunch of faggots who can't settle disputes without acting like children. I can't even believe you thought this was worth taking out of your "community". Think about it, you both made accounts here for the sole purpose of stirring up drama that wasn't even related to this place in the first place.

And for fucks sake, if anyone talks about not having "sympathy" for one party or another I'll DDOS this place myself

It's really not narcissistic at all. This thread is going to spiral out of control, and I have no intentions of getting stuck in loops or pointless arguments over it. I made my point, with a level head, said my bit, gave other people the chance too aswell and given the responses that I've read, I genuinely have nothing more to say on the matter, as clearly this has turned into (as you said) a game of who's standing on the highest pedestal.

You guys can take what I have said however way you feel, I'm not afraid of volitilaty, but I'm not a fan either. Although know that I certainly didn't go to the effort of writing an essay just to get the one up on somebody else. I wrote it because I care for the community that I helped create, and was genuinely concerned, after reading messages sent by 'whoever' at the time, that they weren't able to fit in here, and yes I did make an account for the sole reason of doing so, and other people have also done the same, of their own accord.

dude nobody cares

Vlam cares.

that's why i said nobody cares

Like I said, Oddysee has never been talked about in terms of rules and glitches.

As far as I can tell, one individual made the rules up long ago and they haven't been reviewed since. Technically, he didn't break those rules, but I'm very interested in reviewing the game as a whole, researching glitches like the one mentioned and deciding if it should be legal or not.

I'm not trying to make any excuses, but we rarely discuss Oddysee due to lack of interest so I'm positive most of us don't even know how he managed to do it.

I never started this account for the purpose of drama, in fact, all I've been meaning to do is clarify what issues people have with the 'glitchless' run and try to straighten things out.

What the fuck are you talking about? Nobody knows and nobody cares, what do you even care if our rules aren't enforced? Do you see the irony in creating an account on here just to say that?

I never said anything about the rules on this forum.

I'm clarifying to protect the reputation of some runners who have been falsely labelled as cheaters.

Man, if you continue acting this hostile you're sure to have a heart attack by the age of 40. Chill out.

the fucking hypocrisy in that statement is so perfect that I thought you were a troll for a second there

How is it 'cheating' if what may be considered a glitch is used in a run in a glitchless category when the community who speedruns the games share strats and discuss these 'glitches' with each other anyway? Surely, cheating means to do something that gives one an unfair advantage over someone else... but how is this the case when all who run the games openly discuss and disclose such matters? At most it would be a break of the rules, but not cheating. However, the name of the caregory should not be taken at face value and runners should always look to the specified rules for a category as there are always going to be gray areas surrounding what should be considered a glitch and what should be considered a legal exploit of the game's mechanics.

It can't be cheating when everyone is allowed to use the same strategies which are openly shared and discussed with everyone. Like I said, at worst it's a break in the rules if indeed the rules specify said strat would constitute a break of such, and it's not fair to label someone under this circumstance a 'cheater'.

Using a glitch in a glitchless run...

Who are you quoting? And is there a point to your post?

Well, you're not fooling anyone by trying to justify cheating. I don't mind: just saying that you aren't convincing.

I think you're all artificially trying to turn it into a drama, when it's hardly one. :p

Vlam isn't trying to be mean, but he's brutally honest (and 'edgy'), and the way he sees it, the name "glitchless" implies not using glitches. I agree it is misleading, but since there are clear rules of what's allowed and not in the category, I don't think anyone cheated unless he broke the aforementioned rules. What's not forbidden, is allowed. Personally, I'd change the name of the category, since it does not fully represent the content.

Speedrunners are definitely a community.

In all open speedrunner communities there are people who are worse at this than others. Everyone's pretty bad at start, that's how it goes.

While I do understand why Vhazen took it for acting narcissistic, after re-reading this, for me it's more like an unfortunate choice of words.

Also, Kapteeni doesn't want to cause harm and he explicitly said so. I don't think he'll return to the speedrunner discord, so whether you ban him or not doesn't matter.

That kind of behavior is not very Admin-like...

Varrok desperately wants to be a mod

This fucking thread lol.


Permission to derail?


How neato are cupcakes?

I agree with this completely. From what I've seen, Vlam hasn't really done anything wrong, so I'm not sure why this guy is taking him so personal. Again maybe it's just me, but the whole "well YOUR INPUT ISN'T NECESSARY" line still pisses me off. These guys CAME TO OUR COMMUNITY to start shit and I'm not gonna let that go. I sort of believed their excuse at first, but the more I look at it I think they just wanted to come here to call out the one who harassed them in hopes that either they themselves showed up or someone else called them out by name first, so they wouldn't seem as vindictive. I know passive aggression when I see it. All of this is why I don't like taking sides, in any dispute.

I think the only ones who denied that were honestly just bein trolly little shits with nothing better to say as a jab.

Perhaps. But sometimes it's the little slip-ups that can tell you a lot about a person. I'd be pretty offended if this guy came to my house and said this to people in my social circle - even if I didn't like the people they were talking about very much. These guys are walking pretty carelessly. On ice.

Agreed. I'm still very put off by Kapt's immature response to this, but in retrospect, the existence of this thread is immature to begin with, they just wrote two giant Trump-Walls to make it look more mature than it actually was. I still think they literally just came here to call him out. One way or another, while our boi may have done something wrong - very wrong - to their group, I don't believe in forcing apologies. If he's done being a little shit, then let him be. It's a bad representation of our community, but hardly warrants banning him from our own group, which honestly, I suspect was the goal of these people.

Brah.


With all of this out of the way, I stand by everything I have said here and in my last three posts. Given the chance, I would say everything I have said again.

Now to these speedrunner kids - While I agree it's not /technically/ cheating if what you did was use certain authorized glitches, it's still a bit shady in my opinion, but that hardly warrants the real harassment you claim to have suffered. If Kapteeni still continues to abuse your friends, then perhaps we will do something - but one way or another this should have been a private matter. So with all of this out of the way, your message received - with all due respect sirs, please leave.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S9appPdh0k

Go!
...SAY NOTHING.
Just....go.

But it's not cheating. At most it's a break of the perceived rules that are implied by the category's name. It's not cheating when everyone is allowed to do it and it's not a strategy that is banned in the rules. I'm only arguing this because a runner was targeted with the title 'cheater', but they are not. But whatever... troubled people create trouble.

I'm not planning going back to the speedrun server in nearby future.

Vlam claimed that they're bullying Kapteeni because they called him out for shitty behaviour. If that's the truth as he sees it, he needs glasses.

Calling someone out for inflaming a thread and being full of shit isn't admin-like? Also, you've been on OWF for years; since when do you think our Admin have any level of standards? :p

I'm closing this thread now because it's past its worth. If I can summarise the takehome messages:

• Speedrunners do their thing and no-one outside that community really minds what they do, as long as it's over there
• Kapteeni has a thin skin and over-reacts to shit. Nothing new there
• A bunch of our members enjoy inflaming arguments for the sake of arguments
• OWF is the worst.