But canonically Abe rescues every Mudokon in RuptureFarms. How can he do that if he didn’t know how to chant until after he escaped?

On a side note, happy to see you guys talking about Oddworld (and not the ARG).

Someone should make a mod of AE which completely eliminates the SoulStorm and Vault hubs. I might try to do that but I have no idea how to use Paul's editor.

I got really damn good at it years ago, I had such a nifty level in the works I had toiled over, but I couldn't remember for the life of me now how it all works. But this definitely is a good idea.

I haven't got AE installed on this machine, but it should be quite simple. I'd open up the hub path and click on the door objects to find out what path or level IDs they point to. Making note of them you could go through each path and replace the door that leads to the hub with the level/path ID of the next area so it's a linear thing. It's a little tedious job but it should work.

That sign about all employees being killed is meta, so there's no reason why he couldn't rescue them upon his return. It makes a lot more sense. I think Abe fleeing RuptureFarms would have been a straight dash for the exit.

I think it's pretty much confirmed that—from a storytelling perspective—he only learns to chant at the Monsaic Lines. Isn't the first story stone that tells players about possession in the Monsaic Lines anyway?

Have you heard about a general tactics in Auschwitz where for one escapee they killed a dozen of others, so the prisoners didn't want to escape in exchange for other people's lives? Source

That does make sense.

Sure, it makes sense. But I don't think that's the intention. Or it might be, who knows. I just thought it was generally accepted that Abe's escape was a solitary venture—akin to how most of us would have played the game on our first time.

I don’t think that’s ever been confirmed, so I think we have to assume that the Mudokons in Zulag 1 do exist and are rescued.

The sign does not mention Abe in any way, I see it as a warning to any foolish mudokon, who would try to escape the heavy guarded concentration camp facility. I totally think it is the ingame intention. AO was made by tens of people, almost everything in the game has a meaning to it.

The fact of the matter is, Abe DOES save those Mudokons as he's leaving in the first segment of the game, if he doesn't they'd be dead canonically. So Manco is right, it doesn't make sense that Abe knows to chant at the beginning of the game. However, Abe doesn't know he can possess Sligs at this point, that's still learnt in Monsaic lines canonically. The saving the 28 is just a plot hole, really.

Of course we know from behind the scenes details the reason you can chant from the get go is because they thought it was too late to bring the whole saving Mudokons gameplay mechanic in as late as the return to Rupture Farms, which they felt would be too late in the game to introduce chanting AND gamespeak.

Or, you know, the gameplay could not be canonical, because it's a game and merely a way of representing of a story.

But that's the argument, we're comparing AO and AE. Is there harmony between mechanics/gameplay and the storytelling? Which game has the least dissonance in this sense?

Chucking it down to "gameplay for gameplays sake" isn't really the point!

That's such a stupid way of looking at it. If the gameplay isn't canonical, then what the fuck is? I don't even really understand your point. Are you saying the game isn't canonical to itself? Besides, we're specifically analysing the integrity of the narrative and you're like "hurr durr or you could stop and realise it's just a game". These games strive to have a cohesive and engaging storyline.

I've always 'justified' that as him having gotten that ability by receiving the scars. Which would make sense in a way. On the other hand, why would he be able to possess some creatures but not others?

What he said, but: chill, yo.


Perhaps there’s a baseline of intelligence or brain size required? Over the course of AO/AE/MO Abe can possess every species encountered except:

• Mudokons, Elum and Munch (which can be justified as Abe not wanting or needing to)
• Bees, Bats, Fleeches, Slurgs and Fuzzles (all of which are comparable to small bugs or rodents)

If I am allowed to say: New 'n' Tasty is the real canon now (unlike AO).

Did Lorne actually say AO is retconned? Moreover, they're still exactly the same, storyline-wise, so I don't get your point, Vlam.

My point is: why aren't you talking about New 'n' Tasty (instead of AO)?

Apologies for all the swearz. Long day.

We were comparing Oddysee to Exoddus. New 'N' Tasty might be the new canon, but it doesn't mean the originals cease to exist as games in their own right.

New N Tasty is like the first installment in the new Star Wars Trilogy, while AO, AE, MO represent the old trilogy

AO and AE are more comparable, imo. Maybe we could compare NnT and Soulstorm, once we have played Soulstorm that is (or even know what kind of game it is lol).

Okay. Again, I blame the interviewers who never asked this question...

Have you considered a career in journalism, Vlam?

the problem of “does Abe canonically know how to chant and save the Mudokons in Zulag 1?” still applies whether we’re discussing AO or NnT, so it’s irrelevant anyway.

Seriously, I believe we could learn a lot more from Lanning (if you ask him the right questions). Don't you agree?

I've always thought of it as an afterthought, especially looking at the previous variants of the first "Return to RF" game screens.

Also, seriously, who didn't figure out chanting and possessing in the first 5 minutes of the game? I did, and I was 5 y.o. who couldn't speak English.

No doubt. But a lot of the time, interviewers can't ask hard-hitting questions because it'll either ruin the flow of the interview, or dissuade the interviewee from taking interviews from said interviewer again.. wow that's a tongue-twister.

That's why interviewers tend to ask very tame, and lame questions. I think.. at least.

TIL "interviewee" is a real word

I do agree. But these sorts of interviews don't really tend to go in depth unfortunately, as it's more about making the public aware this thing is happening. Lorne probably doesn't want to give too much away at the moment either to build up hype.

Lorne Lanning AMA anyone?

(;;;

Also, I doubt there is a whole lot to talk about. During the Kindafunny twitch, he literally said a modeller was still working on the Abe render whilst they were trying to reach their Twitter goals. I have a feeling that Soulstorm is still being largely conceptualized.

Check out Lanning's interviews by Nate. Which means in-depth interviews are possible. Real Oddworld fans are rare. Public and critics don't really care about Oddworld (so everyone, except the fans, are pleased by the interviews).

I'm not saying in-depth interviews aren't possible. I'm saying right now that isn't the purpose of these interviews. The purpose is publicity. I think we're arguing the same point here, Vlam. Good interviews can be done, but these interviews are based around promoting the game, not finding out what intricate details of the story have changed.

Yes. But I think you're being way too nice with the interviewers. The fact I may be the only one who complain about it indicates that fans of Oddworld are very rare around the world.

But that’s always going to be the case with interviews for any type of media. Interviews are published for different audiences, and for most games journalists they’re writing for people who just want a brief summary of whatever’s going on in gaming. They’re going to be reading about a bunch of different gaming news, not just for one series.

Nate’s interviews with Lanning have a different audience in mind: they’re for dedicated fans of the series, who have an established interest in reading in-depth information about Oddworld. If you put that in front of an audience of a larger gaming news website you’d get very few people wanting to read it all, because that audience doesn’t have the same interest in the series as a dedicated fan site would.

I agree with you, Manco. My point is: fans (and not likers) are really rare (sadly).

Yes, but what does that have to do with the topic? We were talking about Abe’s powers in Exoddus and how they relate to his powers in Oddysee.

The FMVs are canonical. That's it.

I'm not being "hurr durr". You don't need to be a dick, it's merely my interpretation. The gameplay, and what happens during the gameplay, is auxiliary to the actual story.

Some things within the gameplay are more canon than other things, but I don't consider Abe's chanting abilities before the Monsaic Lines as canon to the story. Similarly, I don't imagine he rescued any Mudokons before returning to RuptureFarms.

The gameplay is a representation of the story, not what actually happened. The only events that actually happened are the FMVs, unless otherwise stated. It's a video game, ergo, it's a different storytelling medium, and different rules apply.

Once again, my interpretation. You may believe whatever you want as well. :)

EDIT: I apologise if came across as rude before, I just don't believe everything within the game should be taken at face-value. It's a game, and there's going to be gameplay elements that don't make sense in a fully-functioning world, like the LED screens that offer Abe advice, or the bird portals conveniently floating around RuptureFarms during Abe's initial escape.

I've mentioned this in a thread before, my uncle played through the game until Scrabania Nests without realising he could possess sligs; he thought that was just a neat way of making them explode.

That is fair enough. I'd argue a 100% perfect runthrough of the game is the canon of the story, considering all 99 Mudokons (or now 300) are present in the final FMV of the game (never confirmed, but heavily implied). But as you say, we can each have our own interpretation of the canon. Apologies if I was rude earlier too, I came across waaaay more harsh than I meant to. Wonders of the web, eh. :)