Most of the stuff suggested doesn't seem so over the top to me. A lot of it actually pretty obvious after playing New 'N' Tasty.

Oh my god vlam's obliviousness is almost adorable.

I think it's all pretty valid. The chase music from the original has quality of music in games today. why couldn't they just reuse it?

As for TheWanderingWonderer's (I'm gonna call you TWW for short) suggestion about the electric gates death animation.. I hate it in New n Tasty. I miss the 'oops'.. as a Mudokon dissolves. THAT's just the right amount of humour added to a death, not flailing around and exploding. Also welcome to the forums :)

edit: Happy 420th Post Frustrated Assassin! Wanna get high?

I have read your christmas wish list: "fix all the issues that were in NnT". You're not reasonable. Unless you don't want the game to be release before 2026.

You don't have to take "all" so literal. I was meaning just the main issues with NnT which many people complained about.

If that's unclear, I'll edit it.

Also. This is just a suggestions thread. It's not like OWI are going to read this and make sure everything is met.

I suppose they do have a higher budget this time. With all the NnT copies being sold. Higher budget -> Bigger team -> Faster launch and (Hopefuly) Better product

I want Sligs to gag or say 'somethin' smells!' when Abe's Possessed fart floats past.

Yes, of course, but let's avoid the fanfiction territory.

I want fire breathing Scrabs, and Meeches to make an appearance.

Edit: Sorry. That was fan fiction.

Too late: you're the one seriously asking for new content as if it's going to happen.

By the way, Crashpunk, I just saw your twitter: you want OWI to read this thread.

AO had that joke too. At the end of the day dark, scary and realistic just isn't Oddworld. AO was dark and tense, but I wouldn't call it particularly scary, or realistic. Ever since then the tone set down has been really different, and that's just what the vision for Oddworld is now.

So, Im gonna be the nerd and talk about mechanics.

I want an option for a transparent In game timer somewhere on the screen to track my progress for each level. Sick of spending 12 minutes in a level thinking it was okay, and have to go all the way back to the chapter select to see if my time improved or not. And if it didnt I dont know how close I got, where I made mistakes etc.


Unlike AO, which i never beat, Ive never even touched AE. So I have ZERO expectations for it. Its all gonna be a suprise. So I cant say what Id like them to keep and whatnot, cuz I dont know whats in the game.


i also just want sligs to be more consistent. Theyre the closest thing to RNG in the game currently.

A timer? Yes, they're going to ruin the aesthetic just for speedrunners. Do you want a health bar and ammo count as well?

They basically are RNG, I'm pretty sure.

But our point is that AO clearly has the best atmosphere out of all of them, which is why so many people are asking for it back.

Alf's Escape was new content, and it was pretty good, too.

Do you now.

Actually, it totally is reasonable. Besides from maybe the return of the grid based movement system.

Varrok, my point about that was that it isn't going to feel consistent through AOHD to AEHD. Not only that, it's something that hasn't been used in games for years. It gives players a slightly less amount of freedom and I think it would be criticised.

Isn't that a little bit harsh? Speedrunning in Abe's Oddysee isn't exactly unusual; they even encourage it with the scoreboards at the end, showing different times of everyone; I can't imagine Abe's Exoddus would be that different, except that it's longer. If they did add it, don't you think that would also have an option to disable it or enable it anyway?

Come to think of it, I'd kind of like it if they took out the bottle cap throwing ability. I don't really get its purpose; I tried to use in New N' Tasty and found it just a way to bypass most slig-based puzzles or make them impossible by constantly resetting their walk patterns.

I didn't get the point of the bottle caps either. I can only guess it was a hang over from when slig AI worked differently.

I think I'd like to see the AEHD aesthetic kept close to the original, it'd be great to see some new areas too, give whomever develops it a chance to throw in some new screens whilst keeping the original tone. That way you get some creativity in there without ruining the strong homogeneous aesthetic of the originals.

yeah I said the option to have an on screen timer. Having the option for a HUD wont take away from the aesthetic or feel or whatever it is you want from the game, cuz you dont have to use it.

And I quite like the bottlecaps. believe it or not but sligs arent RNG. They behave exactly as they should 99% of the time. (That 1% of the time them being inconsistent, like when theyll insta wakeup and shoot when they usually dont in that area etc.) The bottlecaps allow us to manipulate them in certain ways, so that as long as our movement prior is perfect (aka the same) each time sligs will always be in the same spot each time. The only slig that I can 99% say is RNG is the first slig in Alfs escape. Ive never gotten that one consistent.

I only ever used the bottle caps once. To change the walking direction of a scrab. Apart from that they are only good for teaching new players how to throw

Vlam. Had you been here in the AOHD thread you would notice that some of our suggestions actually happened. Pretty sure someone suggested idle conversations between NPCs, as well as a bunch of other stuff too. Me and others are not asking for 'way too much'.. We are stating things we think would be nice to see. How about you actually join in on the suggestions rather than just criticising everyone and their ideas.

They read the last one. And anyway, it wasn't even directed at them. I was just advertising it.

Most of what I would like to happen has already been suggested:

-Grid system/tighter controls.
-Rupture farms ruins (from the demo this was certainly going to be a thing, must have got cut for some reason).
-Shadow zones.
-Less slap stick alike stuff and more overall dark and disturbing environment/design.

I don't really think OWI have any other point of refference if they want honest fan feedback. Even though we're mean people.

Exactly, people suggesting shit on facebook don't know what they're talking about, they should be BURNED at the STAKE.

OK but seriously how do you make shadows work in 3D? Because the whole reason they changed it is that it’d be completely obvious that Abe was standing there from any perspective other than side-on. Sure, add in other concealment visuals that aren’t just smoke vents, but shadows as they were in the original game simply don’t make sense in 3D.


Adding to this, less neon-lights-sci-fi aesthetic in general.


Oh that reminds me, the audio mix in NnT can be godawful sometimes. Sound effects are way too loud and completely drown out all the voice audio and music.


I don’t really agree with you there, there’s an army of people out there who will tell you that Oddworld games frightened them when they first played. As for realism, yeah a game featuring alien creatures in alien environments is never going to be realistic, but AO and AE definitely had a ‘grounded’ feel to them – the creatures had some well thought-out anatomy and backstory, all the environments had a natural or lived-in feel, and pretty much everything felt like it obeyed the laws of gravity and physics to a much more realistic degree than most other games.

Last time I checked NnT had a scripted camera that you couldn't rotate or move by yourself. Unless that changed, your comment on this makes little to no sense.

Scrabaniac: one last thing. Read Phylum's post about AO's tone. Holy Sock, a long time ago, said something convincing: in Lanning's mind, the original game should have been NnT, not AO. So the darker tone you liked wasn't "intended". So a darker TzF isn't going to happen. I should make a thread about it.

Lorne said something like that, but that might have been just a marketing speech. We do not know whether Lanning is really satisfied with the remake

Would a grid system even really work right? I know the puzzles are originally designed around this system. If OWI are going to move forward with sidescrolling Abe they need to completely redesign how Abe moves with his envrionment and the type of puzzles you see in this new system.

But if they try and add the grid system will it not make Abe feel more stiff and awkward? If you're playing a sidescrolling platformer I imagine a lot of players will get frustrated with this limited movement - even though the originals were designed around it.

Maybe I'm wrong. I'm not sure.

Tone wise - eh, I don't see why Oddworld shouldn't have silly humour balance out it's serious themes. it stops the thing from being preachy - and it fits since we're dealing with exaggerated concepts and caricatures. Both AE and SW have a nice blend of humour and drama.

Also, I like how vlam is some sort of militant suggestion supervisor. Remember, OWI! Only consider suggestions with that vlam seal of approval!

Who cares what's likely or not? Suggest whatever the fuck you want. Shut up, Vlam.

Varrok, I don't believe it was a marketing speech. In fact, NnT's cutscenes, disliked by most of the fans (for being too cartoonish) are very close to the original material (the storyboards of 1997). It was an interesting debate between Holy Sock and Slog Bait.

1. Abe in NnT is stiff and awkward.
2. Of course it would work! It worked in AO an AE.
3. There are a lot of players that are frustrated with NnT's "little steps" and inaccuraties.

Also, I think you guys are too hard on vlam. He made some regrettable posts in the past, but I think he's trying to take it more maturely now. I'm serious.

I said that because Lorne said that before NnT was released. There's a general rule that you don't talk critically about your product after a looong time after release. Even if he thought it was dissapointing, he was forbidden to tell that in public. It'd be an economical suicide.

The NnT cutscenes were pretty much exactly like the original. They were just brighter and glossy. Not cartoonish. Abe tripping, and his reaction to New 'n' Taty to a lesser degree, are about the only goofy things they actually added.

EDIT: Yeah, he feels awkward Varrok, but with analog movement I imagine players want a full range of movement. They should fine tune Abe's response but taking it back to the grid system might be frustrating. I wouldn't know though unless we obviously had an example.

Which wasn't "added", just sticking to the original storyboard (AO made it less goofy).

They're overally similar, but these small segments feel significant because it was the only new thing about the cutscenes. They added scenes that are goofy. I don't think they added any scenes that aren't goofy.

There’s two key differences between the AO camera and the NnT camera:

1. In AO the camera angle is always completely perpendicular to the path Abe is travelling on, while in NnT the camera is often offset at slight angles.
2. In AO everything is rendered with 2D sprites from a completely flat perspective similar to orthographic projection, while NnT is rendered in true 3D with simulated perspective and depth.

What this means is that the environment in NnT has much more obvious depth and perspective to it, meaning that it would be much harder to trick the eye into believing that Abe is hidden by the shadow cast behind him – we would be able to see Abe’s form in 3D standing apart from the shadows, and this would make it seem absurd that the Sligs — who would be looking at Abe from the front or back and wouldn’t see any shadow behind him — couldn’t spot him.

Add to that the fact that NnT (and presumably AEHD) uses realtime lighting, and wouldn’t be able to make a totally-black shadow that Abe completely disappears in look good or realistic, and you have a seriously flawed visual. It’s better to remedy that by coming up with ways that Abe could realistically be hidden from all angles to achieve the same effect, rather than trying to slavishly stick to the original visual.

Does it always have to be smoke vents? Hell no. You could use thick plant coverage, thick bundles of hanging wires or pipework, masses of pipes protruding up from the floor; you could even have hollow 3D objects which are shadowy inside, like a half-pipe or alleyway, which would hide Abe from multiple perspectives. You could reverse it with poorly lit areas where enemies can only see you if you’re standing in the light (this could have worked well in the Free-Fire Zone). You could even mix it up by adding small piles of crates or rocks which Abe could hide among by crouching amongst.

I don't care what Lorne thought the original game should've been. It is what it is, and that's why we love it. Remember the Star Wars special editions? Yeah, that was what Lucas originally envisioned.

It was also incorporated into the engines at a very early stage. It was also 1997.

@Manco, Do you think the smoke worked in NnT? Were you unable to see characters in smoke?

They did. They took out that goofy scene of Abe hitting his head Looney tunes style and replaced it with the Scrab conveyor belt scene. Abe's reaction I can get behind. But Abe tripping over seems totally in line with Oddworld - even the tone of the original (which had slapstick humour and farting).

Honestly, I think people overblow how goofy NnT is though. Humourous idle chatter and ragdolls are about it.

The glossy and bright look of the game, the lack of tension, the lack of punch to character deaths contribute to a change in atmosphere. But as far as goofy humour there isn't really all that much added. You could tone it down in game - repetition of idle chatter is grating. But it's not like we saw the second coming of MO.

It wasn't that far off, atmosphere-wise.

Also, let's remind people:
http://puu.sh/ng3wA/6598dfaf34.jpg

It’s still just possible to make out Abe through the smoke but it’s way more believable that he is concealed from view. The smoke could have been even thicker but then the player would completely lose sight of their character, which isn’t necessarily desirable.


The pacing as well, it feels to me like cutscenes move at a much faster pace than before.

I changed my mind. I think you're right. Maybe it's more about the gameplay.

Or maybe about music volume. I remember music was pretty silent in NnT and it plays a big role in atmosphere.

I really don't think it's believeable. Somehow I think that without the smoke Abe would be as visible as he was in.

I like the idea that Slig visors are infrared and that Abe is concealed from view when he's in hot steam.