NO IT DOESN'T!

Not fitting gender roles created by society does not make you of the opposite sex. Tell me, what does it mean to be a women? What does it mean to be a man?

You're just not getting this are you?

Considering how muddied the definition of "gender" has become, it may be beneficial to remove them from these documents just for the sake of avoiding the very conversations happening in this thread.

I believe that psychologically - you are whatever gender you feel you are. I can refer to a male as a female if they so wish it, and if that's the identity they've chosen. The mentality is what's important. From a physical standpoint, should this same person choose to have a sex change operation, he's just a male with mutilated genitals. I guess what I'm saying is; it's impossible to truly change your sex. But out of respect for those with complex identities, gender is something that shouldn't have to be observed.

biologically and genetically, you are defined by gender as what sexual organs you have. Socially however it's a different story I expect.

If you're a girl born with a dick...

I'd imagine that would cause confusion in the gender department.

Gender: Other

So...there just needs to be three boxes?

More stigmatizing than just simply not stating.

No. That's not what gender means. The word you are looking for is 'sex'.

Fair enough, might I ask (and I'm not ripping into you if that's what it sounds like) how you would do the system?

The passport system? Exactly what the Home Office are planning to do as long as the benefits to the transgender community outweigh the fiscal costs.

As I have little information on either, I choose this once to trust the government knows what it is doing.

Whoa, whoa, Joe! Let's not do anything hasty.

Wait, trusting the government knows what they're doing? Hah!

That's how it starts. Then one day, BAM!

Hit by a truck.

Damn politics.

My friend got herpes for putting his trust in the political system.

That’s what he gets for sticking his trust in funny places.

If I may intrude on this discussion and respond to MoxCo before WoF has an aneurism:


Moxco: You probably understand this first point, but just to clarify: What WoF is saying is that sex and gender are two different things. Sex is a physical thing and gender is a psychological thing. Gender may only be in the head and may just be a construct of society, but that doesn't make it unimportant.

You're acting as if someone who feels that they are a female born in to a man's body can just say to herself "It's an artificial concept!" and suddenly their gender will realign to their body. That shit just aint possible, so anything we can do to make their lives slightly easier would be a good thing.

I still say the 'Other' box is a good idea.

How would you feel if you were described as 'Other'? It's still kinda offensive. The proposed option is to simply allow people to choose not to have gender listed at all.

Wouldn't that cause confusion?

What about people with unisex names?

How would it be less confusing to have a person with a unisex name who selects 'Other'?

Besides, why is it important to have sex/gender on passports? Why does it matter if the person has a unisex name?

Because

we need

to identify people.

By their genitals? Or by their chromosones?

By their passports, duh.

So the information on the passport doesn't need to correlate with the human in any way.

You mean like what a passport photo is for?

You won't always be communicating through a channel that can transmit images. A rapidly diminishing issue, certainly, but still worth considering. When security are transmitting a description of someone, I'd rather not get jumped by the guards because a woman of my description has a gun.

And bear in mind security are trained to evaluate appearance. They will recognise someone's physical sex regardless of the psychological overlay.

Someone evidently doesn't understand jokes.

This is when someone posts some photos of Asian pop stars and we all try to guess what sex they are.

Clockwork. Or self-fullfilling?

Self-fullfilling clockwork.

Also I keep reading the title as Free Sex Passports. I keep wondering where to get one and what it's good for.

Sex tourism, I expect.

Why would a passport be relevent to this scenario?

Well if I need to prove that I'm not this person who shares all my credentials but my sex...

Passports aren't impossible to forge anyway.

I dunno, I'm running out of arguments here. I expect the average criminal/smuggler/terrorist would be more knowledgable than me in Ways To Exploit Security Loopholes.

I'm not a 9/11 paranoiac, I just don't think it's worth it. I'd say that airport security aren't judging anybody, but that's bullshit. I already get searched more carefully than everyone else because I look like a crackhead. Passing through security is running the gauntlet if you're sensitive about the way people see you, but it's the means to an end. The best you can ask is that they're equally judgemental of everybody. Just get it over with and get on the plane.

Maybe security needs to know it advance exactly how many orifices you have in which to hide things.

Why? Do you look like a woman? Do you need your passport to prove you're a man?

If you wanted to call me out on that frankly unlikely hypothetical you should have done it like, six posts ago when it started.

I responded the instant I read it, which was only 13 hours after you posted it.

I've reached that point where I don't know enough to keep supporting my arguments and don't care enough to make up new ones. Plus looking at this last page too many of those posts are mine.

Record the last paragraph of post #73 as my closing statement, and good day.

oh and I have a transgender sister (former brother) BTW so that makes everything I said okay

Are they hot?

In my case, yes.