You know, the resources used to build the computer you used to start this thread may well have originated in Congo, where the funds from Western electronic consumer products helped to fund and exacerbate the war there. Now 45,000 people die there horribly every a month as a direct result of the war that ended in 2003. You were asked for £5 a week to help them and others like them, that's more that they can earn a month. How much did your computer cost?

No-one says it's a good sacrifice, but it is a needed evil. There is too little food for too many people. Solution? Keep sending endless supplies of food there for eternity or cut back on the number of people. From a long term standpoint I prefer number 2.

And too put this in perspective, there are thousands of animals dying each summer in Africa because of the draught. Are we going to send extra food to save those animals too? Because it's the same reasoning. And some of those animal species are actually endangered. We're anything but endangered.

So what's the difference between those animals and the humans? They're both dying because the population is too big to sustain itself. You want to talk hypocrisy? Why does the species with numbers in the billions get to live and the species with numbers barely reaching in the thousands don't?

There is currently enough food produced in the world to feed every last person their RDA. Distribution is the crime.

Ok Havoc, you can be part of the solution, go jump off a cliff like I suggested, population goes down by -1. It's a start right, and while you're at it, why not kill your family, thats a few more, and hey, go on a rampage in your town as well, take some fuckers down with you. Why not? It's a necessary evil to stem the population, you could have a cult devoted to the execution of humanity as means to lower the amount of us there are.

Or if we are being serious, why not kill the Europeans and Americans instead of the Africans, why do we have more of a choice to live than they do?

Havoc doesn't see the small picture, let alone the big one.

Like BM said, it's a problem of distribution (and growth, Africa simple doesn't have the climate to grow and harvest crops). Europe and almost any other country don't have a food distribution problem. I can get my food just fine and throw plenty of it out on a daily basis. So when it comes to food, there is no overpopulation here. So no need to kill anyone, let alone myself.

You want to save Africa so badly? Go in there with force, take out all the dictator scum collecting all the charity money and start building shit there. Why doesn't this happen? Because there is absolutely nothing to gain there for any country. It's a bottomless pit financially. We'll invade Iraq or Afghanistan to 'save the people' there but when it comes to Africa no-one is willing to 'save the people' by force anymore.

You can disagree with my ideas or my principles, but I don't think that being the dominant sentient species means that we can't do something about population control. None of the people currently dying in Africa contribute a thing to the advancement of society as a whole for the planet. All they are is a big bottomless pit that every country in the world has been throwing billions into for over a 6 decades. And what has changed since then? In over 60 years? Absolutely nothing. It's still the barren wasteland it was 60 years ago. People are still hungry there, like they were 60 years ago. And we're still pumping billions into it.

All of the money that has been sent to Africa in the last 60 years combined could have built an entire city that could have easily sustained the entire population. The entire continent could be a huge thriving world power if someone at some point decided to change the way they fund it.

Collecting money every year so certain doom could be delayed for yet another year does not work. If you want to save Africa you hang on to the money that's being collected right now, wait until winter and see what's left to salvage. Then help those who survived and start building a decent infrastructure so this doesn't happen again. Because for the last 60 years we've only been delaying the inevitable. The fact that millions of people are still dying after billions of dollars being sent there only supports that.

So no, maybe I don't see the smaller picture. Or the big picture. But I see the even bigger picture. And not enough people are seeing the bigger picture, otherwise Africa wouldn't be in this mess right now.

What is it like in your head, I wonder, where problems are simple enough that they never should have existed in the first place, yet complicated enough that genocide is the only solution?

I think Havoc is thinking logically and nothing else, try making that argument to one of the starving people who will most likely die if your plan is implimented

Logic, you say?

Maybe, if the premises are utterly flawed. Which they certainly appear to be. Logic has a pleasing symmetry to it. Garbage in, garbage out.

I'd love nothing more than to try and take over one of the African countries, I was seriously thinking about trying to get into Sudanese, Ethiopian or Zimbawean parliament as an MP or African equivalent. The problem with that is the black population resents the whites in charge, even if it means that they might have their problems resolved, and don't think any African country is poor, you need to read the news a bit more, Havoc, if you don't understand how the distribution of wealth goes. Furthermore, African countries have vast deposits of mineral wealth and diamonds are more common in Africa than anywhere else in the world but unfortunately they are being raped by China at the moment, if we lose Africa to China we are Royally fucked.

I'm confused. Or possibly you're confused.

Oddhunter said (facetiously, but that's not the point) that genocide is the best solution. You said that Turkey disagreed. I pointed out that Turkey does/did think that genocide is a good idea. And then you posted something that I don't understand what the hell you were trying to say.


In any case, Turkey are still denying the Armenian genocide ever occurred. No "We fucked up" confessions; nothing.

If you can define that as being genocide then it would be a greater genocide not to commit genocide.

Also I'm not saying we should let heaps of people die. I'm saying by just sending food to third world countries we're just making the problem worse. The underlying problems need to be addressed.

We are and should address the underlying problems whilst providing immediate aid.

You do not give a starving man a packet of potato seeds in winter and tell him you're helping him be self sufficient for his own good.

Billions of dollars have been collected already this year alone all over the world to send food to Africa once again. I still hear that literally thousands of people are dying every day. What's happening with all that money? Just for fun, try looking up the salaries of the CEO's of these charity organisations. It's not really a surprise that hardly any money reaches Africa to begin with when half of it sticks to the CEO's salary and the other half sticks to some African dictator or customs official.

That's 1 of 2 reasons I refuse to give any money to African charities. The second reason is that I absolutely don't believe in throwing endless supplies of money and food at something and desperately hoping it will get better. Like trying to fix a leak with 1 dollar bills. You know it won't do any real good but it's the effort that counts, right?

The underlying problem can't be fixed while also trying to give instant aid. You need heaps on money to fix the infrastructure of African countries. Money that simply isn't available when it keeps going to food and such. And if you start collecting in winter you'll be sitting on a huge pile of money by summer, but we'll just get this same shit all over again and the money will be spent on food again. It's an endless cycle that needs to be broken.

Also charities (especially ones which aim to provide aid to a different country) are sometimes used to launder money, making it even harder to choose such a charity that actually does much good nowadays.

Infrastructure must be built up in African countries but the leadership of many countries needs to change as well or else such infrastructure will rarely be used for the public good.

Havoc: That's why, as I said in a previous post, you just need to find the competent charities, that actually work to improve infrastructure and provide education rather than just food and money.

Those charities often still have the problem of a CEO who thinks he's entitled to about 200 grand a year. Another thing I don't like is that I can't just donate once. At least not around here, you have to sign up to donate like 5 bucks a month for at least a year and I don't like being tied to something like that. I usually give money when they come to collect at my door, though.

Got to wonder what the point of building an infrastructure is if you'e just going to let the people die while you do it. Actually, the point isn't too hard to conclude, it's just too horrific to picture for long.

Many African's don't have jobs, make jobs by making them build buildings, wells, pumps, the kind of basic things that desert countries need but don't have. Look at the UAE, they are thriving in the same climate...well, not thriving...

Not having a job in Africa is not the same as not having a job here. They still work.

Expand?

Do you really think people in African countries just sit around bored waiting for charities to give them food or build them wells and shelters?

Imagine sprinting all day every day just to stay in the same place. And failing.

Thats why we should put treadmills in supermarkets in front of the fatty foods, well that would solve the obese problem anyway.

No it wouldn't. Have you ever heard of internet shopping deliveries? That would make the obesity problem worse because people would be more tempted to avoid the treadmill, thus avoiding the trip to the supermarket, therefore making them fatter.

Also you'd get a lot more heart attacks.

Then it will be made compulsary to have really fast treadmills constantly on in their front door way, that way when the food gets delivered... You see where im going with this. And, they should make all fatty foods 50% tougher than they are now, that way at least they're burning off aome more calories chewing.

Or they could just tax fatty foods under the justification that obesity is one of the greatest aviodable drains on the NHS.

Or they could put the fridge in the attic, you know, make em climb for the food.

Or teach them about WALKING! And the wonderful benefits of getting off their fucking fat arses.

Perhaps we should make a list of the kinds of people who count as subhuman undesirables and decide just how each kind should be abused and punished for the crime of existing.

Let's start with the...no wait I actually cannot finish that sentence without incurring any sort of wrath.

Someone will, I'm sure.

Can I? Can I say...the right wing?

Yes let's persecute people for their political and social beliefs because the minority of them persecute us for our sexual and religious beliefs.

Let's do that.

I'm only joking you burke, but I'm not fond of the right wing movement. That being said I don't mind David Cameron so much. He's done more good than bad.

I used to be david cameron... But then i got told off by nate.

You need to become a better poster.

Its true actually
http://www.oddworldforums.net/showth...=20245&page=18

Can I say... the religious?