The only bit of the Library double parter I can see in a new light since all this River guff is the bit where the Doctor stops the Vashta from attacking but telling them who he is. That's the genuinely clever connection.

See I think Moffat stumbled a bit here. If I recall, at the end of Silence in the Library /Forest of the Dead the Doctor says to River something roughly along the lines of 'You whispered me my name. There's only one way you could know my name.' just before she dies. So surely the Doctor should have some idea who she is instead of being seemingly clueless about it for the next series and a half. And still, after it's revealed that River is Amy's daughter, how could that possibly be a reason for knowing the Doctor's name? Unless there's still some stuff to learn about River that will link back to this line. Or Moffat's cocked up and he'll try and forget it was ever written..

Either 1) she read it off the side of his cot or 2) we don't know yet how she knows.

Well, unless definitely stated, two is true. But there's 3), real names must be used in a Gallifreyan wedding ceremony.

True, and to be fair the Doctor has always kind of figured out that him and River have a relationship at some point in his future, so I think that would tie in nicely. I've always imagined, as cheesy as it would be, that in the last episode of Doctor Who, the Doctor is god knows how old, and has a young granddaughter in his care, so decides to send her back to his younger self to care for her. I think with the way Moffat's heading with this we might just find out where Susan came from, and if she actually is his biological grandfather.

Questions, more questions and very few answers! Damn you Moffat, your cunning plots and clever twists always keep the viewer in anticipation of the next installment! Hats off to him though, he's returned the show to just how it should be.

I don't give a fuck about running storylines. I want good episodes. More to the point, I want good villains.

I don't get the connection. Are you suggesting that the Vashta Narada came from the Gamma Forests?

I just think it was more of the Doctor's hubris that marked the end of his 10th incarnation and has occasionally popped up in the 11th.

So did anybody else feel like the whole subplot with the guy and his husband and the headless monks was just kind of unimportant to the plot? They were just "there" and didn't add much at all.

I've felt that about the whole season apart from the ganger episodes.

Are you suggesting that Doctor Who should only ever have ongoing plots and no Monster-Of-The-Weeks? This aint Lost, Phylum.

Yeah, pretty much. I imagine the gay thing was the give some characterisation to the guy so that we'd feel bad when he died. As for the monks; probably they were just generic enemies, but maybe they have some deep-seated reason for hating The Doctor that will be explained in future episodes.


Rewatching bits of the episode, I love the lines:

"He's not a warrior."
"Then why is he called 'The Doctor'?"

They only make sense after you've seen River's speech at the end.

I think it was to show that these people can't be all bad since they allow gay marriage.

EDIT (Nate posted):

I think you misunderstood Phylum's post.

As for those lines... the Doctor went to the Gamma Forests and they took his name as a word for 'warrior'. And then she asks why, if he's not a warrior, he's called the Doctor. That makes no sense.

How?

Makes perfect sense to me. She doesn't know that their word 'Doctor' (meaning 'warrior') came from him, just as Amy and Rory weren't aware (until River told them) that the word 'Doctor' on Earth came to mean 'healer' because of his visits. As far as Lorna is aware, he chose the name to reflect himself.

It's like if you met an alien who called himself The Soldier. You'd make some assumptions about what he's like too.

Read it again.

You misunderstood it by getting the exact opposite of what I said.

I guess the time he met Lorna probably wasn't his first visit to the Gamma Forests. If it had have been, though, it wouldn't have made sense that the word entered their language so quickly and that Lorna didn't know it came from him.

As to misunderstanding Phylum's post, I assumed you were replying to this one:

EDIT: Phylum posted. But yeah. Same thing.

No, I was replying to the one where he replied to SW, saying that he'd felt that the entire series (other than the ganger episodes) "were just "there" and didn't add much at all". And I questioned why he felt episodes needed to add anything.

As for the post that both you and Phylum quoted... I'd read that on a previous visit to OWF, so I'd forgotten it by the time I read the one immediately above my post.

Really? It made sense straight away to me, but I missed the part about the English word having the same origin.

Bit of a paradox there (or rather, stable loop), considering that the Tardis translated "Doctor" into the equivalent in all those other Earth languages and in doing so invented them in the first place. It seems therefore that the Doctor was actually named by the Tardis.

It's happening all over. The Gamma Forests was just a convenient example of River's point.

who is Lorna

Lorna Bucket (the BUCKET carries the water from the RIVER to the POND, see? Or something) is the soldier chick from the Gamma Forests who embroidered the prayer leaf for Melody.

It's pronounced BOUQUET.

Oh, okay. But I don't really see it as a connection, per se. More an acknowledgment even back then that The Doctor was renowned across the universe for his feats.

Oh dear god.

Oh fuck you

fucccccck

This is amazing and I love it.

Oh my. That is just so cute.

Enchilado you stay away from him you sick bastard.