No I know for certain it exists, obviously, as a Catholic I wouldn't think anything else. It can't not exist.

I have to agree with OddHunter(but in a less angry way)... This really is the reason that most people gang up on Christians like you.
Because whenever you're presented with an argument, you talk around it. And you say "we can't know for sure" and in the same post you say "But i know"...


Let me just ask you. How DO you know all this? Except from what you read in the bible?
Is it just a gut feeling? Feelings are very subjective. They can come from many things. Insane, schizophrenic people believe they hear voice, but we know that to be untrue.
So what makes you any different? I mean if I told you "I read from a book that 1000 years from now we will ALL turn into frogs and I believe it" wouldn't you see me as a bit loony?
I'm not calling you a loony, but this is just the way you present yourself to us, thus the hostile comments.

If you really tried to explain without being arrogant, then maybe people would be more kind to you.

It can and you have no evidence to back up your "knowledge".

Seriously, there's having faith and there's being an insufferable asshole. You do not and can not know that an afterlife exists. Nobody knows this, they simply believe it.

Get your head out of your ass and realise that belief is not a substitute for knowledge.

PS I'm not attacking your religious beliefs here, I'm attacking your attitude.

Well I can't explain it to you because I don't know how, I just know it exists like you know that tomorrow the Sun will come out, that's not arrogance that's steadfast belief in the Lord.

I say "But we don't know the truth that's the thing." Because a lot of people don't, I do. Again, that's all down to believing in the word of God not arrogance.

Well if that's your answer then it means nothing to me. I don't trust anyone's word solely based on their gut feeling.

Besides, how DO you know sun will rise tomorrow? How do you know that something doesn't go wrong. Like a friggin meteor. You can't predict the future, and you can't just take consistency for granted.

Your truth means nothing because it's based on nothing but your little head. It is very arrogant. But if it makes you happy, so be it.
Personally I think you just WANT it to be true so much that you convince yourself that you know.

But... As long as you let other's be themselves all is well :)

And I'm not bashing religion either. I'd say the same thing to an Atheist who think they know for sure.

We know the Sun will rise tomorrow because:

a) we've seen it millions of times in the past, and
b) we have knowledge of how our solar system works

We have evidence to back up our knowledge.

Belief is not evidence, stop flaunting it as such.

You don't know jack shit. As I said, belief is not a substitute for knowledge, and your claims of "knowing" are extremely arrogant because of this.

T-Nex, science and religion both prove the sun will rise tomorrow, even if we were hit by a meteor it would still 'rise' as it were.

And I'm not asking you to trust me, what, you think I want you to get on your knees and be converted or something? You asked me a question and I answered in the only way I know how. I never said, "Hallelujah see the light heathen!!!" Also you keep trying to offend me with comments like 'my little head' and saying I'm arrogant when I'm just trying to explain to you in the nicest way possible.

And OH, I do know, I always will know certain that God is somewhere looking at me and smiling, well I hope he's smiling.

hahahahahaha

ha

ha


"I know what you non-believers don't" comes off as extremely arrogant.

Claiming to have knowledge that no other being in existence has is arrogant.


How do you know? Because of your faith?

hint: faith =/= knowledge

Strictly speaking for the scientific knowledge we have of the human body right now, I agree with Hawking's statement that, like a computer, there is no soul present to go to any sort of heaven. As it stands, our brain is just a really complex series of zaps going off to give us the feeling (or even illusion) of our senses. Once those zaps stop going off, our person just stops existing.

To me that says you're completely uncertain about your own beliefs, already doubting them as it is and don't want other people to push you over the edge into reality. It's like a little kid who thinks that if he just screams loud enough and closes his eyes, eventually he won't have to go to the doctor to get his shot.

You keep confusing 'knowing' and 'believing'. You don't know shit and you never will, that's the entire point of religion. You can only guess and hope that what your bible says is true because if it isn't, your entire foundation for living in the first place is blown to pieces.

Also, like I said in the other thread. You're far from an actual christian. A real christian wouldn't doubt the words in his bible. A real christian would not dare to think for his god and will take the rules of his god literal unless he is told otherwise by that god. To interpret the rules your god made for you with a different meaning because you otherwise don't like what they say is insulting to your god and if I were him I'd throw you in hell because of it.

If I said God proved to me he existed so now I believe in him un-faltering would you stop asking the same question?

No i don't think you are trying to convert anyone. If you were you should take converting classes or something.

I was simply interested in knowing what makes you so sure. Because I always wonder what on earth makes Christians so sure of themselves. My conclusion is still that it's just wish-thinking disguised as confidence. But your answer didn't really enlighten me in any way than fortify this opinion.

Like if at least there was something that you experienced that wasn't just "Oh I believe this book"....
I really don't trust you when you say "I just know".

Also you're offended by "little head"? X_x That wasn't even meant to be offensive. Jeezus. Just thought it sounded cute.

I have no idea why you're getting so defensive. Either you answer the questions asked or not participate at all...

If you could back that up, sure.

e: God just called, he told me there's no afterlife. I completely 100% believe what he told me, but I can't tell you why. Just trust me, I know.

Where is your proof that he is smiling!? :p

Seriously though, some things in the bible are not supposed to be true facts, they're supposed to give an explaination to things people don't know. The 'knowledge' you're getting is only views and is no way the exact answer.

I've spent 6 years of my life being prejudiced against for my religion by other people, I have a right to be defensive.

Anyway I don't know how you managed to get me back into this guys but I hate it so I'm staying out now.

What he do? Show up in your toilet?

Maybe if you didn't go around flaunting your "knowledge" that wouldn't happen.

Well ... it IS a religious debate <.< >.>.....

Anyway STM, i just don't like your attitude. Not giving room for any doubt is close minded. Saying you know for sure is close minded. I think religion is fine, and there are religious people I respect very much because of the way they carry it.

But maybe you just fail at communicating or we fail to understand you. But to us you just seem very arrogant in thinking you know the truth and the way you present your comments.



Also Havoc don't just provoke STM, we don't want this to become unnecessarily heated.

Hasn't this topic already been discussed to death on the forums?

Before people lay into each other too much, remember this: You cannot reason someone out of something that they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

(Ironically the friend who told me that got stuck so far into feminism that she lost sight of the bigger picture, and the plot.)

And then I'll contradict myself a little bit to go on to say:
You really should start listening to yourself before you contradict yourself further. You don't know anything. None of us know anything for sure - Not even the scientists. Some things are just beyond our understanding. It's just that the scientists have theories that make logical sense, and some evidence to back those theories up. Some religions on the other hand are based around ancient stories which are less believable than most fictional stories that exist today. I think I know who to believe more.

Maybe people who believe strongly in something need their security blanket to give their lives some sort of meaning, but I'll also say that we should rely on what we know for sure: We are alive. We should be making the most of what we know - The fact that we are alive. And that's what we should be trying to enjoy as best we can. We should be happy that we're experiencing this. Is how we got here and where we'll go really that important? Really?

Both


Peace out

Uh.... Care to elaborate so that I wont delete this for spam?

I believe in a higher power that is most likely the god that people of the catholic faith believe in, but I also believe in the sciency stuff like evolution/big bang.

edit: and yes, I am willing to admit is that one of the reasons I believe is because I can't accept that nothing happens after you die. No one knows what will happen though, so it's not worth arguing about.

I am an atheist. That being said, I did some praying a few months ago. I prayed, and I begged god to return my family to me. I wept, and I pleaded. I promised to never say another word against him.

This says more about how upset I was than it does about the existence, or lack thereof, of a god.

I guess in the end, the thought of someone watching over us and helping when in need is soothing.

But I seriously don't get what is so popular about the Christian god... Personally I find it.... lame...

Desperation does that to people. I will say that I once believed that the Universe was god. See I even wrote it just now with a capital letter... Uhm. Right.

Then reason caught up with me and I got confused by all the variables and stopped caring. But it is everywhere, its components created us, and we're all part of it. So you can kind of see where I was coming from.

I thought Islam was the more popular religion?

It's not yet but then, they believe in the same God as us.

I believe that there is a lot to Religion than belief in God. Of course, that is always a big part of it, but I know plenty of religious people who don't neccessarily believe in God as much as they do the ideas and lessons preached through the Bible, or any other relgious text. They believe in science and the Big Bang just as much as any atheist, yet they still go to church and participate in religious ceremonies. These are the kind of religious people I like.

I find religious ceremonies boring and... weird... Kind of like a weird assault on my personal space.

I like things to be bouncy and fun.

They're boring as fuck, yet millions of people participate in them, often. I don't get it.

Because it helps some people feel good?

What a waste of time, I don't really get it either and I'm glad to know better than that.
Says the guy who spends most of his free time on his arse playing games. But at least they're fun.

But I suppose some people need to use that as an excuse to get out and socialise (after the sermons), and feel unified in a purpose with a bunch of other people who share their faith. So maybe I can see why they do.

What an arrogant statement from someone who just a moment ago was arguing not to act like you know everything.


I believe in the Christian God, I also like science. That's all I really have to say about that.

Then you're the kind of religious person I can stand. Good job.

I'll elaborate. What I meant with that was I know better than to go to church every week to worship a god - There isn't any need to do that in order to believe in something. Even though it may help some people feel unified in purpose as I said above, it still seems like a waste of time to me.

so I havn't read every single post because theres a tone of them, so I'm just gonna sum it up the way I see it.

I belive that god does exist, however there are many elements of christianity that I don't agree with (like one life time of sin being deserving of infinate torture)

science and religion should not have to conflict, where it does either the science is faulty or the religion is wrong in that area, and since science is based on observation and religion is based on faith, science will be right in most cases.

stephen hawking didn't say god couldn't effect our universe, he just said that he doesn't seem to effect our universe.

I belive everything science has proven or is strong evidance to sugest it, I just belive that god is behind it all and science is discovering his methods.

Neither. Both parties bring trouble.

Stephen is just pissed off at God because he's crippled

I could certainly word my responses lighter and less blunt, but what you're asking is for us to censor ourselves.

If we were to abuse our positions and apply the rules in such a manner towards STM that it could be considered biased, then we'd be in the wrong.

Alcar...

I'm fairly sure you're joking, but you need to confirm that for me so I know whether to pos- or neg-rep you.