So sapience is a higher form of sentience? Ok I should have gotten that, probably why we're called homo sapiens I guess.

its 'cause we're all gay.

Well, it is a dog. So yes. You actually answered your own question.

I had a dream last night that my sentient dog that's dead came back to life because my cat dug up her skeleton in the backyard.

Oh, ok, I'm glad that's cleared up.

Can you feel the wind?

Isn't that a Family Guy episode?

I don't know keeperxiii, because I don't watch Family guy, but that was my dream.

Pretty much everything has been covered in Family Guy at some point.

Except quality.

That's for sure.

Back on topic, are we the only life form to be considered sapient?

Maybe maybe maybe dolphins. They rape other dolphins and form posses to beat up rapists.

Or something.

I don't think dolphins are. I think we are the only sapient animals we know of. Dolphins are like the third smartest animal behind chimpanzees, but they're not self-aware like we are.

This was my point.

And what a clever point it was.

No, but I can hear a dozen dissatisfied grunts every time you post.

You grunt a awful lot.

How do you define and determine sapience?

Also, can you guys please stop deliberately going offtopic? Molluck's Assistant, ziggy, keeperxii, Elmatto753, WoF and Mac Sirloin, I'm looking at you. This is your final warning; next time you will receive infractions.

Sorry Nate, don't worry :9

Well, sapience is having a rational mind, right? Ergo, only humans here on planet earth so far, obviously :).

I'm yet to be convinced that any human I've ever met behaves rationally.

Humans do not have rational minds, they have rationalizing minds.

Humans are fantastically good at being sapient. We come up with things like language, cities and iPods to show it off. The trouble with testing whether other species are capable of sapience is that it hinges somewhat on whether those species give a flying fuck about being quite such show offs.

Verified extranthropical sapience would be an amazing thing, and hopefully pave the way for some much-needed deanthropocentrification in our culture(s). Then we can start making some really cool changes.

Yes, it's true, some slippery slope arguments go uphill!

Well said... but can you please define 'extranthropical'?

I was going to say ‘outside of the anthroposphere’, but apparently that word-I-made-up already has a meaning in exactly the field of science I allegedly study, so I shall say ‘outside of humanity; in a species that is not human’.

If you discount dolphins, chimps and gorillas from sapience, you've got to discount some low-functioning humans too.

Which isn't surprising, since once again we are imposing discrete terms on a natural world made up of gradients.

Are you talking about severely retarded or insane people? I guess they could be discounted, but I'm still not sure what the full definition of sapience means.

and another incredibly dull generalisation by Ziggy.

yes, lets rule out all severely retarded and insane people, because we all know they're pretty much the same thing and are all as thick as pig shit.

you astound me.

Well, chimps can have the intelligence of small children, can't they? Of course, that intelligence is used elsewhere.

Like ripping off the hands and feet and balls of men who dare walk in their lairs. I think we should kill all the chimps really, they're a bunch of bastards.

Since when have chimps had lairs? They make nests and sleep together as a group. They are intelligent enough to make a pecking order with an Alpha Male.

Lairs.

There are no chimp lairs.

Anyway, what about Pigs? Pigs can have the intelligence of a small human child, and we eat those in pretty much every culture (with one big nosed exception).

I believe he said lairs as in a habitat. Just that.

However, pigs evolved to, and are adapted to being a just a four-legged animal with no opposable thumbs :). While chimps can use tools. Thus, their minds are better developed for a lifestyle like our own.

Chimps also have lying, rape and xenophobia. I'd say they're already well on their way to being human.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA300_.jpg

Is there any species that exchanges items? Like a palm leaf for a banana (or something of that nature)?

You'd be hard pressed to find a mammal that doesn't rape, the difference is that it's socially unacceptable to chimps, gorillas, humans, dolphins etc etc.

When I was younger my mom's boyfriend brought his dog over for the night and it attempted to rape my dog. That was traumatic.

Chimps have appeasement. That's the more primitive version.

True, it's everywhere in the animal kingdom.

I wasn't aware that chimps lied though. Any examples?

If a low ranking chimp spots, say, a tasty-looking banana and a dominant male appears, they may pretend they haven't until the other one leaves. The purpose being, of course, to stop the dominant chimp taking the banana.

Clever little chimp. Of course, that little chimp could rip me open, but still.

I also heard that studies also revealed that chimps started using more rudimentary 'tools' in the last few decades. You know, for foraging for food and such.

Crows lie. They deliberately deceive other crows, and sometimes human researchers. They also craft tools for multiple purposes, and use multiple tools in sequence for a single task.

F'rexample?