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-   -   Wikileaks (http://www.oddworldforums.net/showthread.php?t=19856)

Manco 12-03-2010 04:09 AM

I would argue that if a government doesn't want something released I probably want to know why it's worth hiding.

scrabface 12-04-2010 08:27 AM

wtf is going on? government closes wikileaks.org just like that?

T-nex 12-04-2010 08:38 AM

Well.. After this much publicity, it's no wonder. Government has magical powers! Or maybe Wikileaks should just move to an ungoverned website.

Or maybe they just closed, dunno. Couldn't find anything on why it suddenly closed, but then again, I didn't dig very deep either.

Edit: O wait...
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed...by-the-company

Whatever... I haven't followed the wikileaks thing very closely. I just know it's gotten a lot of publicity the last weeks.

Dynamithix 12-04-2010 08:47 AM

I'm not sure what this "Wikileaks" thing is, but it got some attention in here Finland too. It's been in the news for the last two days.

Manco 12-04-2010 08:48 AM

Wikileaks.org isn't working, but all of their other URLs (see here) are working fine.

OANST 12-04-2010 08:49 AM

It isn't "just like that". They've been trying to close them down for a while. It's a website that leaks classified documents. Of course they want to shut them down.

Dynamithix 12-04-2010 09:44 AM

Hmm. I looked up WikiLeaks and there's a leaked video by them that shows US military shooting innocent people in Baghdad from an Apache helicopter.

The pilot and the gunner are claiming that the people are carrying RPG's and AK47's, but actually, they're carrying a camera or something similar to that.

This is interesting. (WikiLeaks, I mean, not the video. That's just incredibly sad.)

OANST 12-04-2010 09:50 AM

No. No. And double no. There were people with AK-47s, and one guy had an rpg. The disturbing part of the video was when they opened fire on people who were trying to transport the wounded. However, the soldiers can't be blamed for that. They reported that people were trying to put one of the wounded in the van, and they received orders to fire on them.

All in all, it was an unfortunate situation, but the decision to fire upon them originally was the right one. It's a war, and those were enemy combatants. The journalists who were among them knew what the risks were.

scrabface 12-04-2010 09:53 AM

by just like that I meant the simple act. kicking the freedom of opinion. I find it kinda shocking that in reality the government can do what ever they want. Obama stays silent which is a pity too.

@ Dynamithix the video also shows how the gunner shoots the incoming van, filled with two children and some men who try to pick up the wounded.

scrabface 12-04-2010 09:58 AM

excuse me? how can you call this a right decision? you don't have to act in extremes. I don't even blame the soldiers in the first place, but they are not dumb killing machines.

also I am not sure how this situation would have ended up without that mega scope weapon, but with a more real life thing.

OANST 12-04-2010 09:59 AM

You do realize that people shoot at other people in wars, right? Otherwise it would be called a debate.

Dynamithix 12-04-2010 10:00 AM

I won't reply anything to the post I made as I'm not sure what happened in the video.

OANST, I didn't bother to watch the video that carefully as it made me physically ill watching it.

STM 12-04-2010 10:56 AM

Ahh, all sides make mistakes, that's why USA should pull out, UK should pull out, NATO should just leave and leave Afghanistan to it's soddy life, it might sound horrible but there problems have nothing to do with us.

Manco 12-04-2010 10:57 AM

Don't link the video so people can decide for themselves, that's way too much work.

Also, people shoot people in wars? Holy shit.

EDIT:
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Ahh, all sides make mistakes, that's why USA should pull out, UK should pull out, NATO should just leave and leave Afghanistan to it's soddy life, it might sound horrible but there problems have nothing to do with us.

Haha yeah screw all those people living there, they're not human or anything right?

STM 12-04-2010 11:03 AM

It's not in our interests to fight over there, how about the UK focuses its military efforts to helping people stuck in the snow back home?

Don't you dare put words like that into my mouth oddhunter.

Wings of Fire 12-04-2010 11:39 AM

Yes, we should impose martial law to help with the big freeze.

Yes.

Manco 12-04-2010 12:17 PM

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Don't you dare put words like that into my mouth oddhunter.

Okay how about like this?
http://i52.tinypic.com/2mnodhy.png

Dynamithix 12-04-2010 12:32 PM

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Don't link the video so people can decide for themselves, that's way too much work.


Manco 12-04-2010 01:06 PM

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http://www.youtube.com/v/5rXPrfnU3G0

That's absolutely fucking atrocious.

Nate 12-04-2010 04:38 PM

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It's not in our interests to fight over there, how about the UK focuses its military efforts to helping people stuck in the snow back home?

Ever heard the phrase 'You broke it, you bought it'? We fucked up their country, so we have a duty to put it back together again.

T-nex 12-05-2010 02:05 AM

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It's not in our interests to fight over there, how about the UK focuses its military efforts to helping people stuck in the snow back home?

I agree with what Nate said. Seriously, this opinion would only work if they hadn't entered the country in the first place. but now they did, and now they've messed everything up.

STM 12-05-2010 05:33 AM

Sorry, I meant they never should have entered, I don't feel it's our military's business to enter every African province under threat of dictatorship or to defend Middle Eastern hot spots. Think of me what you like for that but I have seen the after effects in my own family of fighting in war, It's a sad thing.

Wings of Fire 12-05-2010 06:48 AM

Splendid isolation and all that what!

Bullet Magnet 12-05-2010 04:00 PM

The other side of that is that those who would have had us not go to war would have had us leave Iraq and Afghanistan in the hands of Saddam and the Taliban. That seems reason enough, and if anything was left far too late. How it is handled and what happens afterwards is another matter, and given what happened with Iraq (and the successes there, particularly for the rights of the people, must not be forgotten) means that it is unlikely that establishing a free democracy in a land of brutal despotism will ever be tried again. We may yet have cause to regret that attitude in the decades to come.

Isolationism, on the other hand, is practically impossible, but morally and legally impossible for us as well. We are signatories of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, and are required by international law and human decency to intervene in the event of genocide, ie mass race murder, and to punish those responsible. Which makes it all the more reprehensible that we didn't lift a finger for Rwanda and had to be persuaded by internal activists to intervene in Kosovo after watching it take place for some time. Bear in mind that if that had been permitted to continue we would have seen, in a land an hour's flight from Berlin, two from London, the rise of exactly the kind of fascism and horror eliminated from Europe in 1945.

STM 12-06-2010 01:00 AM

The Americans managed Rwanda though, if one military is already there then why bring in more, perhaps, if America had to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan, they didn't need Britain, France, Canada and the other entering forces to help them, of course this is vastly debatable.

Nate 12-06-2010 03:05 AM

How do you mean 'managed'? You mean 'Took some part in mopping up after the fact'? In any case, that was the U.N., not the USA.

And, frankly, the US troops are stretched pretty thin in Afghanistan and Iraq as it is. Without other country's troops, there would be no hope of improving things on the ground.

STM 12-06-2010 05:50 AM

Yet they 307,000,000 living in the US, no that's not really fair. Needless to say that everyone who is fighting in Afghanistan is stretched thin, perhaps then it is more reason to pull out soon?

Wings of Fire 12-06-2010 05:54 AM

He's right guys, keeping the peace is too hard and we just shouldn't try.

STM 12-06-2010 06:08 AM

Amen to that, let's just have China and North Korea take a shot.

scrabface 12-07-2010 02:13 PM

well Assange is now under arrest. I think the investigations which keep him in remand will take for about 15 years. he's fucked.

Sekto Springs 12-07-2010 02:15 PM

Creepy. The second I read your post, a segment on the news covering his arrest came on the TV.
He turned himself in, and is apparently facing allegations of rape.

scrabface 12-07-2010 02:26 PM

But he prepared a 1.5 gb file named insurance.aes256 which contains much more deeper infos about a lot of 'important' persons.

Strike Witch 12-07-2010 02:56 PM

Thing is Wikileaks will just continue to release stuff through the press anyway.

Assange's trial will simply place him consistently in the public spotlight for the next however many years, thus ensuring nobody ever forgets about all this.

Masterful move, Julian.

Daxter King 12-07-2010 03:20 PM

This whole thing is a conspiracy. Wkileaks was created by the American government, and Julian(not his real name) has been used as a villain. The leaks will be released, the US and other countries will use this as leverage to make the internet more secure, and start to censor it. Soon enough this will all be a thing of the past and America's internet will be as censored as China's.

Believe.

Bullet Magnet 12-07-2010 03:22 PM

On the one hand, turning yourself in when faced with (as he claims) false accusations of rape looks much better defending yourself than going on the run for years. On the other hand, handing yourself in when (as he believes) the combined strength of several national governments around the world are colluding to discredit and imprison you is utter madness.

scrabface 12-07-2010 03:28 PM

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This whole thing is a conspiracy. Wkileaks was created by the American government, and Julian(not his real name) has been used as a villain. The leaks will be released, the US and other countries will use this as leverage to make the internet more secure, and start to censor it. Soon enough this will all be a thing of the past and America's internet will be as censored as China's.

Believe.

you have any proof of this?

Nate 12-07-2010 04:08 PM

I have anecdotal evidence that it isn't true, in that one of my students works with his son, who's a bit pissed off about the whole dealy because now he'll never be able to get a job that requires security clearance.

Apparently he's a bit of a dick of a dad too.

Havoc 12-07-2010 04:10 PM

Get this. Next year the US is having a Freedom of Press day...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Pk4-znZMoB...irony-kkk.jpeg

Speaking about the KKK. The big credit card companies, including Paypal have kicked Wikileaks out so you can't send them any donations. Luckily we can still send donations to organisations like the KKK.

scrabface 12-07-2010 04:15 PM

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I have anecdotal evidence that it isn't true, in that one of my students works with his son, who's a bit pissed off about the whole dealy because now he'll never be able to get a job that requires security clearance.

Apparently he's a bit of a dick of a dad too.

lol THAT's why he's so pissed of.

Manco 12-07-2010 10:38 PM

Yeah, I heard about that Paypal thing. Apparently the Pirate Bay is holding some kind of protest against them for it, where they urge as many people as possible to withdraw all their funds from their Paypal account to try and screw them over.