With the little white bubble and the maggot? Good times.

Well, many people disagree with the bible, sah. You see, there are many people in this world who take the bible literally.

Some people just need to read less of the bible, and rely more on common sense. If one were to read the bible to an extent that one could take something as 'Shrimp hating', thta's just a bit overkill. Use your minds, for Satan's sake.

You see, human evolution didn't stop with us growing thumbs.

Hehehe, that site is so pathetic, I can't make out if it's meant as a joke or not XD. Cuz I can actualy see this happening XD.

But you, get your nose out of the dusty old book and think for YOURSELF. I seriously disrespect anyone who can't do that.

The only problem with that is, that part of the bible was the instructions for the JEWS, not the christians. As you know, Kosher Jews can't eat many things, as they are "an abomination unto them" etc.

But the fact is, that the bible was dreamed up and written by Jews who lived in this bizarre and backwards society that had frankly autistic cultural eating habits. So hardly suprising then that it should contain many things that don't make much sense in today's modern world.

Those were confusing times, scape goats and the Roman Empire. No wonder the people clang to such a thing.

Ha! I remember that site, batka times.

hey, dino Fuk, guess. what its for both Jews and Christians but the view has been warped that they say that Jesus got rid of the need of the Old testament.
But this is getting off. Umm...yeah

That sentence both confuses and arouses me in it's incorrectness. As for the rest of your post, WTF? Am I the only one confused here?

LET'S SODOMIZE

I think he must have meant "for 'ur knowledge". I know he would never say fuk to anyone.

The old testament talks about everything before Jesus came. About the first...3 books is meant for the jews I think. The rest is for both religions. But Jews don't believe in the new testament for some reason. They still say that jesus nevr came or anthing. Something like that. Anyway ain't we going a bit off-topicness?

I believe Jews believe in Jesus, but not that he was the Son of God.

Could be beacuse they don't believe in Jesus' divinity.

I'll explain it if anyone makes a religion topic, anyway, it's the first 5 were written by moses and all of the old testament is for everyone, some jews do believe that Jesus the messiah, and some don't

I thought the main concept of all judaism was in fact that jesus wasn't the messiah. :/

Why does this discussion have to happen on a day where I don't have time to do my usual 10 OWF visits?

First of all, I would like to reiterate my previous request that people not denigrate other's belief system, just as you don't want anyone to come here and say "Homos are gay cunts who should be stoned !!!11!!" and etc. Frankly, I have found some of the things written today personally insulting myself.

Jews acknowledge that Jesus was a person. Some will even acknowledge that he had some good ideas and far-reaching ideals and that he did not claim to be a messiah. But we say that the concept of Jesus as son of God did not come around until a century or so after his death. That's why we do not accept his divinity. In terms of Messianic Jews and Jews for Jesus, 99.99% of Jews would classify them as being Christian rather than Jewish.

The Jewish bible is approximately 95% the same as the Old Testament. It is split into three parts. The first part are the five books of Moses, which were dictated to him by God (I'm giving you the religious opinion here, make up your own mind who wrote it). They are the 'Written Law' that dictates Jewish Life. There is also the 'Oral Law' that was taught to Moses at Mount Sinai and passed down to the people, that explains the Written Law in more detail. One example is that the phrase 'Eye for an eye' is not meant to be taken literally, rather if you injure someone you must compensate him the value of the lost limb.

The second part of the bible is the Prophets, which follows the history of the Jewish people for the period of the first Israelite kingdom, until it was destroyed by the Babylonians. The third part is a bunch of collected writings that I won't go into too much detail about.

I fail to see the point of this story. In my mind this is proof that homosexuals should be free to live their lives as they see fit because otherwise they may be forced into unhappy marriages that could produce unhappy offspring.

The God Hates Shrimp website is humour pointing out the irony that the Old Testament uses the same language (abomination) to decry homosexuality as shellfish. To which you can either say God really hates shrimp or he doesn't really hate homosexuals all that much.

I'm not going to go into the complexities of Jewish dietary law. Suffice to say that most of them are about treating the animal humanely - the animal must be killed as swiftly and painlessly as possible. Once again, you're being ignorant and insensitive to describe ancient Jewish culture as bizarre and backwards, when it introduced to the world things we take for granted today (monotheism, many rules regarding cruelty to animals, caring for the environment, accountability for rulers and more when I have the chance to think about it for a while).

I think not. Actually I read my Bible as much as possible, and if you believe that I fail then you're completely wrong. Let me give ya a few examples:

In Leviticus Chapter 20:13, there ya got the law.
Then ya got Rom 1:27-32, and last Matt 5:17-18.

All these tell that Homosexuallity is forbidden and even if this is written 2000 years back in time, then it wont change a bit, cuz the guys who had written this had (fortunately) a strong faith in God, and what I believe is that God apeared in their life and told them how to write this. So the ones who wrote this stuff don't have any meaning, but the words still have.


SM, I see your point in here and I'm still using my mind - I'm not completely addicted to the Bible.

Havoc, ahem... first, I'm thinking for myself, second I'll not get my nose outa the book, because it's a part of my life and last, I don't care If you don't respect me for the one I am, respect me for what I belive in:p


~DS~

I find it hard to say I disrespect anyone on this forum, DS, cuz most here are good friends. I'm not going to judge someone on the religion someone follows, that's entirely up to you. What I meant with the Disrespect bit was therefor not meant directly to you, sorry if it seemed that way.
What I meant by that was more pointed at all the extreme religious folks who think god is responsible for everything happening in their life.
I trip, break my leg, car runs me over but I life? Oh must be God's will?
Your son is kidnapped by a drug junkie for 10 dollars ransom, and is killled. God's will?

Some people just simply won't act or take responsibility for anything because they think god will sort EVERYTHING out for them. Those are the kinds of people I seriously disrespect and I'l leave it up to you or anyone else here to figure out if they belong to that group. All I can say is; It would be a damn shame.

Nate- I hope you know that I was merely pointing out what it says in the book and not a personal belief.

Dancing Steef- If you believe that the bible is 100 percent correct then you believe that gay people should be killed. Is that what you believe?

As I've mentioned I'm not that addicted to the Bible and of course gay people shouldn't be killed! But if there's a way for them to get salvation then that would, according to me be the only way for them to prove their "missunderstanding" in life.


~DS~

I want to ask you a question and I do not want you to answer with cause god said so. Why is homosexuality wrong? In a world so full of hate how can any form of love be wrong?

Good question there OANST... I got one answer on that one:

Because first we're created to be man and woman, not man+man nor woman+woman. It's not natural compared what our Creator wanted it to be. So to make a long story short; I don't have anything wrong with homosexuals as persons - but their style of behaving.

Hope that answered yer question...

~DS~

You answered exactly the way I asked you not to. Why is it unnatural? Why is it wrong? All you said is because god said so. Try again. And if you can't come up with a REAL reason then you need to reevaluate your belief structure.

Instead trying to articulate my reasons for why I believe you're wrong, I'll steer you in the direction of a website that does a far better job:The Bible and Homosexuality

Yeah, I realised.

You're missing the point of religion. The fact that God says something is reason enough; man is not capable of understanding God's reasoning, though he may try.

I think a better question to ask Dancing Steef is why she takes the indictment against "a man lieing with another man..." so seriously but ignores all the other laws in Leviticus. And before you answer, read the link in MojoMan220's post, particularly the bit on Leviticus this page: http://www.truluck.com/html/six_bible_passages.html.

I did read it. Most of it made sense but there were areas where they were obviously interpreting it to their own ends. They decided that it didn't mean that so they twisted it to not mean that. The verse about a man lying with a man as a man lies with a woman is pretty straight forward. It obviously refers to homosexuality. And no, I do not miss the point of religion. The first rule of every religion is don't ask question. Believe me, I know that. But I can't stand the idea of just believing something is bad without having any idea why. Most of god's rules at least make sense. I don't necessarily agree with them but I understand them. Others are just completely random.

Whis is why I said you don't get religion :D . To be a religious person you have to be able to accept these things.

This is me speaking as a not-particularly religious person here, just so you know.

And I meant that Dancing-Steef should read the website and respond, not you.

I must say, I agree with Nate's statement that tolerance towards someone like DS's religion needs to be reinforced. I mean, make your points against it if you disagree (like I do)... But you don't have to be so nasty about it. =/

I believe that homosexuals should certainly be allowed adoption rights. Most of my points have already been made by other people, but I'll still state a few.

A child with two mothers is much better than a homeless child with no one. Furthermore, I was raised by a single parent, and I turned out fine without a father figure.

DS, I find the typical argument that "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" to be a little silly. Because if God made everyone, then God made Steve too... Now, whichever person--Steve or Eve--Adam digs, I think he should be able to marry her or him.

Furthermore, I think the banning of adoption by gay people is completely unfair to the male sex. A lesbian can easily obtain fertilization through a sperm bank, but men obviously do not have this choice.

Devil's advocate: doesn't God make Gary the pedophile as well?

Well... That's something I honestly don't like thinking about. :p

But for the sake of discussion, let's say pedophilia isn't just a disorder and is seen more like homosexuality. The important question is "Will any harm be inflicted upon someone if a person acts upon the attraction?" In a normal homosexual relationship, both partners are around the same age/of the same emotional maturity and able to consent with enough knowledge of what their actions mean: consequences, understanding of the relationship, etc. As for pedophilia, harm to a child could definitely happen. So... again for the sake of discussion and not a belief I necessarily claim, perhaps the most important thing created by God is choice. The choice on acting upon healthy attractions and not acting upon harmful attractions.

I believe that homosexuals are innately born with their desires and tendencies. However, I believe that pedophilia is an acquired trait.

I say this having not studied either subject in the least bit.

Gay's should be able to adopt and raise however they want! I've got gay, bi and lesbo homies so it doesn't bother me what they do!

Well, maybe you aren't completely cracked out. Just mostly.

Well....... Hot diggity DAMN! Your not the only one who has ever told me that!

...I jus' told ya me answer, but if ya incists then I might give ya an metaphor as "the new" answer.

Lets say that you and one of yer buddies are taking a walk out in the forest. Suddenly you find a brand new car. You are beginning to think; How did that car get there? Yer friend's looking for a manual about how this car works and find one after some searching. He/she reads it and began to understand how this car works. After reading the manual you asks yer friend how it works, he/she explains it to you, but then you ask; How do YOU think it works?
Yer friend doesn't have any other answer on that question, cause he/she only believes on what he/she just have been reading.

So when you ask me "Why do YOU think it's unnatural?" Then I say; I believe it's unnatural, because it's forbidden in the Bible and that's My answer.
You can't expect me to 'believe' something else when I already believe in God's word, The Bible - 'The manual' of living a life near God.

As the car has a developer, then it's the same with us- Humans. Or do ya believe that we 'by a chance' excist? The car itself couldn't have jus' got there of a coincidence? I think not...:fuzemb: if this vehicle has been developed by someone, then it has to be a masterplan behind it , how it works what it's used to do and so on. I believe that God had a masterplan when he created Humans as well - how THEY'RE working and what the Humans are about to do...


If ya have any more questions about this, then PM me or else the thread would get a bit more off-topic.


~DS~

Okay, but all of the machine parts of a car have an obvious reason for being there. You can see that when part a does this it causes part b to do this. Most of the laws in the bible are the same way. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife- This leads to envy and hate and an all around unhappy life. But what evil does loving someone of the same sex cause?

The common belief of sex before marriage.

'Cause gays can't marry. :p

And now they can! Humanity be saved!

DS, maybe if they'd based the religion on a car manual, the world would be a happier place. :)

Heh, no longer do we drink wine and eat wafers to get closer to God; now we just change the oil and pump up the tyres.

Question for British people: someone told me that gay marriage was legalised in there. Is that true? Is it the same (legally speaking) as straight marriage or is it only a limited deal?

It's 'a legal bonding'. They can be recognised as next of kin and suchlike now.

Does that count for immigration, insurance and suchforth?

I'm not sure really, nor am I sure what rights straight couples get...

Your own research would be necessary.

According what I believe in, then God is the creator of the Humans and we're created to be God's image. And God wants us to follow and become more like him, but He gave us a choise to do what we think is best for us. I personally choosed to follow Him, because I think His the right way in my life.

But the opposit to God - Satan; he hates God and wants to destroy him, but he can't cuz God's too strong for him and can't be defeated. So instead of trying to defeat God - which's impossible - he tries to 'defeat' God's image - us humans.


Let's give another example:

A woman hates a man. She really wants to kill him, but she's too weak and tiny to do that so she lets him be. One morning when the newspaper arrived she reads it and suddenly she sees the man on a photo. With deep anger the woman destroyes the photo with ease.

So to make a long story short... I believe that Satan tries to change our whole life by temptations and agreedments, to make us fall into his trap and end up dead. And Homosexuallity is one of them. I don't think that Humans all of a sudden get homsexuall by themselves - Satan must have tried to temptate them to become homosexuall and for that matter he must have succeded.


~DS~