Don't forget Jehova Witnesses and Alcoholics. And if there is a Hell, Jacob is sooooooooooo going there. I mean, like the deepest Dis gets.

Why do you think they're called Neo-Nazis? If they don't support Hitler/Nazis, they're not true Neo-Nazis, just racist.

Jacob hasn't done anything to deserve a banning, his opinions may be unpopular, but he should be allowed to voice them nonetheless.

Well, I believe in majority rule, and I think the majority of us don't approve of his posts.

I believe Voltaire said it best...

Oh so nazis now have a right to express their ignorance in a form that can bother us all? Great. Next we'll be letting them gas jews, and we'll call it "freedom of expression".

Well, we let the KKK squeek through. So I guess any damn thing is possible these days. :devil:

My one complaint is here in the U.S. all we ever talk about is how evil the Germans were and the holocaust. I agree 100% what happened to the Jews and the other groups that were exterminated during WW2 was horrible and inexcusable.

What I cannot stand though in this country, and even in the world, is how no one seems to ever remember the genocide committed against the Native Americans in the United States. We seem to use WW2 as a huge thing to say oh look at this look at this and point the finger away from our own dark past.

I am proud of my heritage and also proud to have been born here and raised here, but I am utterly disgusted by the blood and stain upon my countries' history and the atrocity of what was committed against the Native Americans as well. I know America's hands are dirty enough but I would just like for once to accept that we were just as guilty as any other nation or anyone else in the world.

Yeah, Thanksgiving is probably the most disturbing holiday ever invented.

I think Earth Day takes the ckae. Hmmm, real good present for the earth. CO2 emissions and rainforest lumbering.

'I've been fighting off the urge to say this for a while now but I'm suprised that Jacob hasn't been banned for being a nazi'

Stop being a prick, how the Hell am i a Nazi? And even if i were, why would that justify my banning? Christ, you all preach about acceptance and ignorance, but when it comes to accepting somebody elses beliefs (and i'm not talking about mine, 'cos i personally don't buy into any of the Nazi shtuffs unless it focuses around what we've discussed in prior topics), beliefs that are quite conservative and controversial, you all begin to get prissy and have hissy fits. Screaming for a person to be banned, when you, of all people, deserve to be banned for starting flame wars in two friends that concluded in them being closed.

'Well, I believe in majority rule, and I think the majority of us don't approve of his posts.'

And you can stop being a prick, too. Exactly what don't you agree with? 'cos when it came to the Chav friend and i explained my views there, everybody seemed to accept that viewpoint. Or is it that i consider another persons views? Which, if anything, would make me the most open-minded person on this forum. I personally didn't agree with Dino advocating sex with children, but did you hear me preaching about it? Asking for him to be banned? No. So why on Earth should i, somebody who is merely contemplating the othersides point of view, get banned? Both you and Dino are immensely ignorant.

'Oh so nazis now have a right to express their ignorance in a form that can bother us all? Great. Next we'll be letting them gas jews, and we'll call it "freedom of expression".'

Stop being a moron (as opposed to a prick) and go sit down in the corner and think about what you just said. And no, you can't hum to yourself whilst you think!

'Well, we let the KKK squeek through. So I guess any damn thing is possible these days.'

And what exactly do the KKK advocate? And i suggest you do your research on this one before acting like a tosser and coming out with "Oh, they want to kill all none whites!!"

'Why do you think they're called Neo-Nazis? If they don't support Hitler/Nazis, they're not true Neo-Nazis, just racist.'

There are varying degress of Neo, from what i understand of it. You get the typical skin-head thug, as portrayed in nearly every film based upon Neoism or Nazism. And then you get the Neo's who believe that racial seperation should happen. And then you get the Neo's who believe that non-whites are "sub-human" and not evolved enough and we should thus use them for experimentation. There're probably more differing views, but the peeps i know (well, the female) though agreeing with Hitlers original ideas of keeping a bloodline pure, loathe the fact he turned to drugs towards the end of his rule and hated the atrocities he, alledgedly, commited.

^^ Here's an idea, how about you go **** yourself. And whethere or not you haven't noticed, the KKK are a whacko cult dedicated to committing atrocities against the gay, black, and jew community.

Jacob, how the hell are you not a nazi? When ever there is the merest mention of them you practically become wet and have a joygasm at the sight of an opportunity to tell us all once again how great nazis are.

You'd have to be blind to not notice your blatant support of nazis.

Uh, try; the fact that the nazis are inconsiderate racist homophobic xenophobic facist pigs. I don't think anyone would want that type of scum on their forum.

I express suprise at the fact that you haven't been banned yet and suddenly I'm screaming for a ban? I'd say that was exaggeration and misrepresentation on your part. If you can't argue this thing without resorting to propaganda Jacob, don't argue at all.

You "merely contemplate the other side's point of view" when it comes to nazis every single time they're brought up.

Hey Jacob, Dino called, he wants his line back.

Uhh, Dino, mawk wants his line back.

*brief moment of guilt, followed by smirk* Sorry! Kinda!

Jacob, where have you been getting those questions and answers from? I overlooked it if you ever mentioned where.

Mojo, love the quote. That's my stance on the expression of beliefs thing too. Freedom of speech applies to nazis too.

'Here's an idea, how about you go **** yourself. And whethere or not you haven't noticed, the KKK are a whacko cult dedicated to committing atrocities against the gay, black, and jew community.'

Jesus. Alexander. Christ. Seriously now, did your mother hire Louise Woodward to babysit you as a child? No, really, did she? Or have you just been spending too much time with Uncle Brad, your quite portly uncle who's prone to acts of violence and smells a bit like Whiskey and cigarettes ever since his wife ran off with his bestfriend?

'Jacob, how the hell are you not a nazi? When ever there is the merest mention of them you practically become wet and have a joygasm at the sight of an opportunity to tell us all once again how great nazis are.

You'd have to be blind to not notice your blatant support of nazis.'

Firstly, i don't see non-whites as sub-human.
Secondly, i don't believe we should experiment on non-whites.
Thirdly, i think what Himmler and Heydrich did was pretty poop.
Fourthly, i couldn't giveabothered about racial purity or differences.

I find it immensely pathetic that just because somebody has a differing point of view, you label them something they're not. That's like me still refering to you as an Emog, because i think the latest picturegraphs you posted are Bullshit. Or as a child molester, because you have an unnerving fascination with allowing sex with children...

'Uh, try; the fact that the nazis are inconsiderate racist homophobic xenophobic facist pigs. I don't think anyone would want that type of scum on their forum.'

Awww, it seems somebody cannot think from a point of view that "hasn't been forced upon them by society"...

'I express suprise at the fact that you haven't been banned yet and suddenly I'm screaming for a ban? I'd say that was exaggeration and misrepresentation on your part. If you can't argue this thing without resorting to propaganda Jacob, don't argue at all.'

Oh yeh, i apologise, i totally imagined that you went into a topic and bitched at the creator, got in a flame war with AFOS and caused the thread to get closed.

'Hey Jacob, Dino called, he wants his line back.'

Oh, i'll give him it back when he gives the five year old back.

'You "merely contemplate the other side's point of view" when it comes to nazis every single time they're brought up.'

I apologise, i'll try harder to be more narrow-minded when it comes to an unpopular group, be they political or other.

Dino, your prissy Emogness makes me chuckle, firstly you ask people to be open-minded to a sexuality that has been put in doubt by Science, and then show severe close-mindedness to something that can be questionable Scientifically. You also challenge the social norms of children and sex, and yet you won't challenge the norms of history. If you weren't so entertaining when it came to your little hissy fits, i would've probably left this forum long ago.

You vaguely remind me of Codek, except he was more prissy.

EDIT - Oh and for Amber Jesus' socks were hidden here

Aww, isn't that cute? He's using his childhood memories in his posts. And haven't you been spending too much time around intolerant racists who wish to wipe out several ethnicities? And who did YOUR mother hire to baby sit you? Joseph Mengele?

'And haven't you been spending too much time around intolerant racists who wish to wipe out several ethnicities?'

I forgot you knew my friends. But you do have a point, not on that they want to commit genocide, though.

'And who did YOUR mother hire to baby sit you? Joseph Mengele?'

Josef Mengele died in 1979. I was born in 1986. I'm trusting you to do the math, there.

Actually, know one knows if he's dead yet.

Both you guys need to leave him alone, he has every right to voice his opinion. Heck, a lot of what he's posted isn't even his opinion, but those of his friends. I will not be apart of a forum that does not respect freedom of speech.

'Actually, know one knows if he's dead yet.'

Where did you get that from?! Upon evading all forms of capture, he eventually died of a stroke whilst having a lil' swim in Brazil. His body was eventually found by Nazi hunters in '85 and DNA evidence confirmed it was him in '92.

Oh, and thanks Mojo!

That is what I heard and it is very possible to be Mengele. It is still believed he is still on the loose.

Who believes that, exactly? The same people who believe KKK members cannot be Black? The same people who believe Satanists worship the Devil? The same people who believe that you'll go to Hell if you even so much as enjoy life's finer offerings? Or is it the Jews who are secretly controlling the world from behind the scenes?

Firstly Jacob, I don't think you can advocate ANY aspect of Neo-Nazi beliefs just because you have some 'nice' friends (even though their Hitler views do seem extremely backward and inappropriate for today's society.) Neo-Nazi beliefs are all wrong. Their views shouldn't be tolerated by anyone. Maybe they did stick up for you one day, but it's no excuse to be mingling with people that clearly display backward views that are laughable at in today's world. They still feel a superiority complex over other races whcih is ridiculous. We're all equal, and idiotic Neo-Nazis need to realise that.

Secondly, in response to Al's post about not forgetting the Native American struggle-What about the Cambodians and Pol-Pot's Khmer Rouge? What about the Delhi and Amritsar massacres caused by the British, and the millions of lives that they are accountable for by dividing parts of India into Pakistan and Bangladesh? What about the Congolese, Rwandan, Sudanese, Zimbabwean, Somalian, Ethiopian and Eritrean massacres happening every week?

There's so much more to mass murdering than we care to open our eyes too. When I arrived in Kenya two weeks ago, there were news reports of 281 people being killed two miles north of the Kenyan border. No one talks about the day to day attrocities Africa faces and it's sad. At the end of this year, over twice or thrice as many Africans as Jews killed in the Holocaust will die of starvation, sickness, HIV/AIDS, millions of preventable diseases and corrupt Governments demanding mass murders of a certain tribe or people. Okay, maybe not all of these people have their suffering inflicted by a dictator, but they do suffer immensely and that does count, doesn't it. These people die from the common cold and ridiculous diseases like cat flu. Okay, maybe a few hundred thousand or million people starved to death in concentration camps. It's sad because they didn't need to, but Africa could surely match or beat that number in the matter of a few weeks.

At the end of the day, the Holocaust of yesterday saddens me, but the plight of Africa today is so much worse.

I thought we were talking about the holocaust. While the plight of Africa and the Indians saddens me, it doesn't have a lot to do with the subject.Speaking of which, have you ever heard people saying the Holocaust was karma kicking the Jewish people in the ass? In the OT times God commanded them to commit genocide on numerous occasion, in fact he even punished them because they did not totally wipe out the Canaanites and the Philistines. Also, some say it was payback for the crucifixion, since a verse of the Bible says some Jews said "Let the blood of him(Jesus) be on us and on our children to the third and fourth generations(not literally, a figure of speech meaning a very long time)."

'I don't think you can advocate ANY aspect of Neo-Nazi beliefs just because you have some 'nice' friends'

At the time there was a severe lack of interesting topics, at least this one threw up some interest. Secondly, why is it wrong for me to post a controversial topic and not anybody else? Thirdly, what's the point in having a go at me for being open-minded, no matter what the cause? Did anybody else have a go at Dino for mentioning children should have relations with each other? No. And so until you do, i hardly think you can have a go at me.

Finally, i make friends with people for who they are, not for what they believe or what they say/do. I've known one of my friends before he was a Neo, now, you imagine one of your nicest, sweetest friends and then imagine them turning to Neoism...would you be all "Get out of my face!" for something as silly as that.

'We're all equal, and idiotic Neo-Nazis need to realise that.'

We aren't though.

'but the plight of Africa today is so much worse.'

If God wanted to save them, God would do something to do so. Not my personal belief, but i s'pose it could be given some credence.

Dino summed it up perfectly in the Live 8 thread, these people need agriculture, not pity-money. I, personally, find it sickening that we don't intervene in the deaths that these people face, but let's face it, neither would us if you attempted to do so and then got called a 'War criminal' by all the anti-war people.

If i was Blair and that happened to me, i'd publically tell everybody bitching about other countries genocide to go mount themselves after the way they treated me after Iraq. Saddam was a vile man, who killed his own people and wiped out a nearby village. The people of Iraq can now vote and speak their minds without worrying about being put in a woodchipper feet first, but everybody seems to forget that, just because the war turned up no WMD's.

Sudanese being massacred? Tribes being wiped out? Genocide being commited? You lot said bitched about us entering Iraq, you made your blood-soaked beds, now you can lay in them.

You need to read the post carefully. I did explain how the post was disassociated and also associated with the topic, in terms of death. Otherwise, I did differentiate the post from the topic.

Oh, and I see where you're coming from Jacob.

I really really really REALLY hate to say this Soulstice, but I have to agree with Jacob on the inequality statement he's pointed out. You see, we are all CREATED equal, but we become better than others at certain things. Some people are more knowledgable than others, some people are stronger than others, some are more musically talented than others, some can draw better than others. I believe this because what if we WERE all equal in ways of skills and talents? It's these small imperfections and inequalities that make us unique in our own ways.

I think Jacob means equal in terms of rights and such like not talents.
It's clear that we aren't equal in terms of rights and opportunities, I think Soulstice means we SHOULD be equal, not that we are.

Thought-Provoking Stuff Guys...
 

It has to be said, Karma does come right back around and beat the people who deserve a beating with an excretment covered stick. I've witnessed this on several occasions.

I have.

Okay, who is Karma? Is he/she like a deity of some sort Jacob?

Karma is just a something (though in my storys they're wraiths) that balances life out. You do something bad, Karma makes something bad happen to you. For instance, 9/11 could be said to be the Karma from Hiroshima.

Kind of like Wicca then? But I think Hiroshima and Nagasaki would be retributed a lot worse, many more were killed in the bombs than 9/11.

'But I think Hiroshima and Nagasaki would be retributed a lot worse, many more were killed in the bombs than 9/11'

I was thinking more of how the American public reacted, which was a vile way to act after a civilian town was eradicated.

Not really. Karma is the effect that a specific action has on your soul, whether good or bad. The only time you can be 'punished' by Karma is through reincarnation. And the only people who suffer from bad Karma are people belonging to the lower caste or the untouchable outcastes.

It doesn't seem as though any of you really know the laws of Karma.

And those are?

19 years old and you already have the whole world figured out, eh?

What's in it for the survivors to make up these stories and tell them? To get sympathy? Look at the numbers on their arms. Where did THOSE come from?
The Nazis kept lots of records about what was going on at Auschwitz, and they're on display at the museum.

Six people in my school's video production class went to Poland for the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz with our local Holocaust survivor Eva Mozes Kor. All the pictures they've taken, think those'r fake?

I've read countless books on Auschwitz and have attended holocaust survivor speeches. I don't see why they would make up this stuff. What reason would they have?

What about autobiographies by the Holocaust survivors? Are they just simply making it up? No.

~PH

It's a shame Ann Frank paased away at that time. Two weeks after her death, the Soviets came and liberated the concentration camp where she was placed. She also would have made a fine author.

If you haven't seen the movie you should defenatly see it.

'What reason would they have?'

I don't know, like Mojo (methinks) said before, these aren't my opinions, i'm just juggling with the idea of revisionism. But to answer your questions anytoast...

'What about autobiographies by the Holocaust survivors? Are they just simply making it up?'

No, but how do they know what exactly went on if they didn't see it themselves? How do they know their fellow inmates weren't just transferred? Sure, the Nazis killed Jews, but who the Hell says it's 6,000,000?!

I can't stand this "Oh, opinion A is popular so, without doing any research into both arguments of the subject matter, i'm going to side with opinion A" mindset that has swept these forums (and society in general). It's tedious and it limits people's thinking, which is a vile and horrid attempt at tyranny, from the people who're most against tyranny...the liberals.

Yes, I believe that Holocaust films are very well made. Most of my friends have sen Shindler's List and I heard it's good but gruesome.

We spent an entire quarter last year studying the Holocaust and I thought it was really enjoyable. We would have seen Shindler's List in there, but becuase of its content, we were forbidden, shame :nonono:. I'm getting it from NetFlix soon though. We also read Eliezer Wiegal's, Night. And WE say we have problems.