As soon as you stop being an ass about it I am going to send my prayers out to that family because with the grace of God he will comfort them.

well, I'm not going to stop being an ass about it so you don't get to chant your idiotic prayers to your cult-like God.

Alright! Havoc is here to wreak some eh... Havoc in this tread...

Ok, down to bussines.
PA, I think your acting a bit rasistic right now. Iraq is not all bad just becouse some asshole's tried to be a dictator and shit, and becouse some of them kill soldiers of America. As said, Bush his predisessor was the one who asigned Saddam in the first place...

And second, America did have info on 9/11. Better yet (well, not better, you know what I mean), there are roumors that the USA triggerd those attacks on the twin towers them selfs... Im not confirming anything here, but just say the magic words and Il give you some reasons for those aleged beliefe's.
I once made a school project on the twin towers attacks so I still have all the info on paper :).

Too late I already have. And I prayed for you Esus in ways you can't possably understand. I prayed for everybody.

Hobo is right. I personally believe the war was a shambles I went to the anti-war protest in my area that protest was the largest protest of its kind. It shows you how many others believed the war was just full of political agendas.

The Al queda feel strongly about there cause and Iraq just popped in to it. There are allot of people from these that go to far for example Abu Hamza and men like him but they fight and are willing to die for what they believe in.

Personally i believe we are only dragging out the inevitable.

Yep all who was there was the left.

Explain what you mean please.

'Too late I already have. And I prayed for you Esus in ways you can't possably understand. I prayed for everybody.'

And when you die and go on to another world which is not Heaven nor Hell, we can all discuss who has had the better living life, can't we? The people who have lived it. Or you.

In all honesty quite a few of you are repeating what the Media has told you. And i can't blame you - because we get all information from the Media. The Media is basically the group that makes us make decisions. For all we know this Nick guy could've been raping little children. Now, this would make things completly difference since many would be like "Good job the f*cker died then.". We don't know the whole truth, and chances are we never will.

Can somebody please describe what happened to Nick please?

And in all honesty i think that the beheading could be one of two things -
1) Nick could have been taken hostage randomly so that AQ could say "Hey, leave or we'll...erm...yeh, we'll burn him!! Ooohhh...fire!!" however, upon hearing about the tortured Iraqi's thought "Meh, let's just kill him.".
or
2) Where going to kill somebody anyway, but instead used the whole tortured Iraqi thing as an excuse to do it. Thus making America look worse.

It does strike me perculiar however that the AQ [alledgedly] bomb and wipe out their people when doing suicide bombings and couldn't give a damn about them, but when it comes to killing an American it's all down to "Oh, but it's revenge. Because we love our people so much."

Great point.

I honestly think that that guy getting killed was horrible, but why is the media making it such a huge story? Why didn't they take this kind of approach when talking about soldiers geting killed? Well, it's because the manner in which this man was killed. Killed because of what our troops did. That's why it's a big story. Those men did this to send a message.

-oddguy

...
 

It's true that we shouldn't be so shocked, it's just that in this particular instance, they're shoving it in our face so we can see how much they hate us, which brings the point to light. Bush calls this "The War on Terror." But nothing that we are currently doing is going to stop terrorism, indeed it may increase. Part of being a powerful country means that others will resent you for whatever reason, that's something you can never avoid. It's all in how you deal with it, and I think there are better ways to do so, ways that could at least reduce the frequency of terrorist attacks in the future. Of course if we really wanted to make an effort, we'd have to make some huge societal changes, like dumping our ridiculous worship of celebrities and athletes, and stop blowing tons of money on crap like plastic surgery and such things that ultimately mean nothing in life. I'm not a republican, or a democrat, I just try to use common sense, rather than be caught up in all the religious fervor, the over dramatic media, or the patriotic dogma.

But that goes back to what Alcar says about the media. It's all a bunch of sensationalist bull crap. Although it may seem... out of character... most of America is just as outraged at the treatment of the Iraqi prisoners as they are the beheading. The whole thing is really a commonly discussed topic now. I know this because I live in America (that wasn't meant to sound arrogant). I've actually heard people discussing these issues. Getting news from a paper or channel that may or may not know what they're talking about is one thing, actually experiencing it in your everyday life is another.

As for how Bush feels on the matter, I'm just as ignorant as you are. Who can say which country's media is "more right?" As far as I know, Bush has expressed disgust on the whole prison abuse scandal, but it was only Rumsfeld who publicly apologized (to the best of my knowledge). No one really knows what's going on in Bush's head; it doesn't matter which country you're in or what channel you watch or which paper you read.

As for defending my previous statement, it came from empathy, not patriotism. I feel sorry for the guy because his murder was made public. I feel equally sorry for the Iraqis that were humiliated at the hands of a bunch of negligent US troops. I'm not a "proud" American. This whole thing totally uber-sucks for both sides (whoa... can you say 'shift in tone?').

There was very little (if any) sarcasm/cynicism in that post. If anything seems like a "personal jab" or whatever, it was completely unintentional.

EDIT: Oh yeah... I, umm... like Alcar's theory on how no side is the "bad" side. I'm sure the Iraqis get fed the same kind of propaganda as the Americans... so... erm... kudos, Alcar. :|

EDIT2: And I also *heart* Alcar for correctly using 'empathize' instead of 'sympathize.' I hate it when people mess that up. On second thought, I hate Alcar. He took "The Cruel Angel's Thesis" as his custom title. That was supposed to be MY title. Prick.

The execution case is a sad thing. But I must agree with Searex here, I'm sorry. Just viewing our media doesn't show what dicussion goes on within the population. The execution is a brief topic. The humiliation is still a strong discussion. It's horrible, isn't it? That America isn't made up entirely of greedy slobs who are so full of patriotic shit they'll turn a blind eye to anything wrong with themselves? I'm so sorry to break the stereotypes here.

I don't quite understand what it'll take to get the message across. As much as you may want to believe, by reading headlines, generalizing off of online discussions, etc... we AREN'T that different from the rest of the world. Our government may be elected, but every person here has a unique opinion. There's problems here, sure. I just don't see where you're coming from with these accustions of extremist patriotism. I can talk to any of my friends, my teachers, my friends parents, etc... and most, if not all, are entirely different from the way you seem to assume public opinion is regarding national pride.

I'd have to agree with Majic...most people I know are ashamed of our country.

Of course, that's probably a side effect of the new trend of hating Bush.


EDIT:
Isn't it funny how whenever PA's losing an argument he brings in God, as if he's thinking "Ooh, you can't touch me now, I said I'm going to pray for them, and if you say anything else you're going to hell. I win!"

Heh.

I actually wouldn't mind. Turning to faith in order to omfort yourself in times of agression, depression, etc... isn't too bad a thing. Anything to keep a person acting normally is fine by me. I may not like all the lessons influenced by religion, but that of respect and dedication is something I see as good.

Mentioning that just makes him think he is more right. 'Persecution' against what he believes just makes him have more of a reason to rebel against what you think. Not that you're trying to persuade him to your thoughts, but I understand what you're saying. That is a lame tactic he uses and makes us Christians look like whimps.

-oddguy

Nah, I didn't mean it like that. Oddguy explained it a bit better above. I'm fine with it if he uses it for comfort, but it's the fact that he uses religion as a weapon in an argument in a really twisted way.

It's annoying, and makes people put Christians into a category of weirdos.

A common thing that makes Christians looks bad is how they raise their hands and cry and do all that showy praying. In the Bible it does say to lift up your voice high, but that is refering to lift your voice high unto God...not to make yourself a spectacle in front of others. It actually says to pray in private so that it's just between you and God.

-oddguy

Wow, those are a lot of reply's for just 8 hours or so!
Well... you have the normal cristians... normal cristian familiy's. And you have the heavely overdone one's. You kno, the one's claiming every little thing that happands in their live is directed by god and they also feel no shame in telling you that every 5 minutes. Those overdone cristians are the one's I realy well... hate is rather harsh but I can't find any other word.

PA, deep inside you know you've lost. You've resorted to acting immature. Just as a child hides behind his mother when scared, you use God and Bush as paternal shields. It's nothing knew, either. It always happens. You're too proud to admit you know jack all, and you're simply arguing for the side that brings you comfort of mind.

If God exists, he doesn't take sides. I'm outraged that you dare take the judgement of God into your own hands! You are ever the blasphemer, if ever I saw one.

Use your own brain, God gave you it to think with for yourself, to interpret the world he gave us, to explore. Don't rely on everything someone says. Don't believe everything you read in the Bible. The Bible was ultimately an interpretation of God's will, and so in turn we must interpret it ourselves. Then look even deeper, research the Kabbalah, the Tree of Life, and Sephirothism to name a few. Christianity is indeed a religion with many mysterious roots. It'll do good to broaden your knowledge, and not confine it.

But then, you would rather live a life comforted by a sense of false security. It's just easier that way, to believe everything is alright with the world. That everything your government does is justified.

Oh, and SeaRex. I love you *hearts and kisses*

Alcar...

Well... I personaly wouldn't mind using Bush as a shield... Then I would run straigt into combat with him :D.

Marry Me.


Again.

Sorry, I couldn't help to laugh when I read this!

Yes, well, anyway;
Amen to Alcar.

I have to agree with Alcar, but I wouldn't be suprised if PA stayed away from the forums for a while. His Stranger prediction and now this has really gotten a lot of bullets thrown at him.

I wish we we could go back to the simple times when we knew PA was a bad speller and started lots of threads, but we didn't care because that's what made PA...PA!

-oddguy

Tsh, you shoot bullets Oddguy, not throw them. Silly.

Bah, if PA's going to keep his Bush-ist opinons then he can stay out as far as I'm concerned

Damn! Mixed metaphor I suppose. At least I didn't say knives shot at him...right?

*nervous laughter* hehe

:fuzemb:

-oddguy

'A common thing that makes Christians looks bad is how they raise their hands and cry and do all that showy praying. In the Bible it does say to lift up your voice high, but that is refering to lift your voice high unto God...not to make yourself a spectacle in front of others. It actually says to pray in private so that it's just between you and God.'

Thankyou for that. I am planning on going to America some time and going to one of those Jesus seminars and trying to make the teenagers stop being such c*nts. This will help me with my task.

Like i said before, i think people should live life the way God would want them to. Happily. If it does nobody harm, why not do it?

On a seperate note - i have love affairs with Chickens.

So do I, don't the feathers just get everywhere?

now what the hell (isnt that just a well fitted word for the discussion we are having? :P) was that all about? Chickens? Did I miss the joke here?

...
 

Ah, I enjoy your words, Alcar. Spirituality is about what we all have in common, not about that which separates us. Religion has it's benefits, but it's important to remember that it's a human institution, and thus subject to all our flaws.

As much as opinions may disagree against PA, how weak his arguments may be, his choices regarding religion, lay off. Somebody shouldn't have to be pushed to the point of acting childish, or feeling the need to hide. You think what you think, and leave it at that. So what if one person doesn't share popular opinion? If you really think a person's arguments and actions are so weak and immature, why does it matter so much? Let things be how they are.

Just becasue you have a chance to go and dominate an argument doesn't mean you should. Let the other person leave with dignity, I'd say it was pretty clear PA didn't want to get blasted as he did.

I don't think anyone would wanted to blast him and let him leave this thing with shame, but somewhere in the middle of this topic PA began to (IMO) make realy negative comments about Iraq. Being negative in the terms of:
Everything which isnt American is stupid! And everything from Iraq should be shot!

Sorry, but that was the bottom line in all of his statements from page 2 I believe.
I think this topic is pretty much done for right now BTW...

Well I guess I know how everyone feels about me and I can understand. Wether or not you understood me before I dunno. I have been trying to point out who our enemys are. Iraq is not our enemy its the people who cut off the head of Berg. And I guess when I hear somebody state that the cause of such acts was justified or taken as revenge against us, when I persoanally know myself that these people always wanted to kill us, it makes me believe that your saying or praiseing these people who do such things, which in turn makes me disgusted. I try to defend the other side. And I think that there is no gray area. And for me I think or I believe its just not acceptable.

Now if you think that I believe that all of Iraq is the enemy then I dunno what to tell you. I mean I can't convince anybody. So thats just the way I feel about this issue. And don't accuse me for this because I know I have a problem and my problem is I can't explane to people things very well. I mean I am always like this even in the real world. I can't help it. It is something that is not one of my strengths and the thing here is I know that and I am always trying to fight that but it never works and I am viewed as being immature or something else of that nature. I know I am smarter than that but its killing me. I know my strengths and that one strength that I have is being visual.

If anything that is positive about me its the ability to be an artist and who has a very creative mind set. Thats my positive side, Thats the true me the true Paramiteabe I want to be viewed as. Its not the immature person you've been seeing trying to convince and explan ethics and religion and all that shit.

So all I can say is sorry.

Why don't we just leave this whole thing behind us and get back to normal?

-oddguy

:rant: :( :crying: :crying:
It's ok. Everyone goes crazy sometimes. I wonder, what if Bush was reading these forums right now....

Bush: Why this is terrible!


Ghost!

'Bush: Why this is terrible!'

With "Iraqi's...still alive!! Naaaaaeee!!" added onto the end.

I like Tony Blair. Tony Blair rocks my socks. He doesn't give off bad vibes and he seems sincere...

Michael Howard [or whoever he is] on the other hand is a c*nt and gives off bad vibes. If he gets in this country is going to the shitter and i hope he doesn't. He's even trying to get the Pink [Gay] vote by saying "Oh, we'll do Gay shtuffs for you Gay's as well...yes, like, ermmm, give Gay pupils mentors.". And it's like "Erm, as i recall you hate faggots and once tried to keep the legal Gay sex age group to 18 instead of 16.". God. Michael Howard. Opportunist prick. Any questions class?

And on the Feather note, i tend to shave the behind area.

Crap.

I feel awful for pointing that out.

Sorry bout that, PA.

Hug?

Mac, it wasn't really your fault. Everybody had to have the same feeling burried deep inside, because after you mentioned it...everybody felt the freedom to follow in thy footsteps. If you hadn't pointed it out, somebody would've mentioned it later. Well, now that it's all out, we all feel better and we can go back to normal. :)

-oddguy

I don't see why anybody should be apologising. And it does literally sicken me that one minute everybody is voicing their, well formed, opinions and the next minute, after somebody says "Oh stop, you'll hurt his feelings" everbodies all "Whoops, we are so sorry for having opinions that differ from yours. We are so sorry that we rubbed our, basically correct, opinions in your face and mocked your, basically shite, opinions in doing so. We are so sorry.". You all had a good point, and basically i think the only reason why PA supports Bush is because he is just another Bible Bashing American who probably secretly masturbates Cattle whilst dressed up as 'Cilla' on the weekends...

Look Jacob don't go through all the trouble of trying make me pissed off, because that to me makes me feel you have no life so what ever you say I really can care less. If anything that is immature now it would be to keep going on with this.

Rather funny thats coming from you......



STEAM! REMEMBER STEAM! EH PA?