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-   -   The Evolution of the Glukkons. (http://www.oddworldforums.net/showthread.php?t=5713)

Kaimana 07-13-2002 05:42 PM

Okay i understand. there is no more comments for me on this subject i get it.

Xavier 07-13-2002 05:44 PM

I realy don't see how they can come of birds or birds-like creatures... but it can be possible, which I doubt

Kaimana 07-13-2002 05:47 PM

yes thats whatvi was thinking to....i dont see the concept but i guess its different on oddworld.

Xavier 07-13-2002 05:49 PM

:

Originally posted by Max the Mug
In physics, teleportation is impossible.
I saw an article and it said some guys teleported a Lazer shine (or something like that)

a step closer to Oddworld ? :fuzwink:

Kaimana 07-14-2002 05:04 AM

Really wow. can you get the arcticle. well you dont have to but that is interesting.

Xavier 07-14-2002 07:19 AM

it was in a news paper, in french, and a long time agp, sorry, I can't find it back :(

Kaimana 07-14-2002 03:41 PM

Its ok Xavier, but it sound real interesting.

Danny 07-15-2002 08:37 PM

:

Originally posted by Max the Mug
In physics, teleportation is impossible.
Depends on what you mean.

Matter Transmission (digitally encoding the information necessary to recreate an object at another location) still eludes scientists, but has not yet been proven impossible

Quantum Displacement (inducing an object in a state of quantum duality to appear in its second location rather than the original), on the other hand, is not only a viable theory, but has actually been demonstrated - I think that this is what Xavier was referring to. Unfortunately, they haven't managed to transport anything larger than an electron, but they're working on it... The teleportation devices on Oddworld could easily work by QD rather than MT...

Just thought I'd point that out, off-topic as it may be...

One, Two, Middlesboogie 07-16-2002 05:45 AM

Taa for the info, Danny. I'd heard about that before but couldn't remember the terms for the two sorts.

There is a third way, though... much harder to set up and maintain but once in place far easier to teleport objects... wormholes.

I don't think the Oddworldians are advanced enough to do so, but in theory, if you have the power to manipulate the space-time continuum, you can join two black holes or other rips in the fabric of space, and this creates a tunnel between them, through which you can travel through in a few seconds, but which may be light years in length. Some physicists reckon that wormholes appear all the time by themselves at random points throughout the unierse, but usually they are too tiny to admit most animals and only stay open for a fraction of a second.

However, look at the bird portals in the Oddworld games. It seems that the birds are drawn to distortions in reality, which chanting Mudokons can penetrate and use for their own ends. Perhaps some force on Oddworld that doesn't exist anywhere else in the universe... possibly spooce... weakens the continuum mainframe and makes teleportation easier.

BIG EDIT: I've dug up my transcript of Channel 4's Equinox program on black holes, and it has this to say about wormholes (for best effect, read while listening to the opening music in ZoE):

:

WORMHOLES IN BRIEF:

For decades, scientists have argued whether there is any safe passage through a black hole, which might lead you to emerge either somewhere else in our unierse or somewhere else in another universe entirely. The consensus now is that such a trip is impossible: the centre of the black hole is an unstable region of space and time, which would destroy you as you passed near the central singularity.

But in 1985, American physicist Kip Thorne realised it was possible - in theory, at least - to shore up the sides of the black hole tunnel, so making it a safe passage. To reinforce the black hole, we would need some kind of 'exotic matter' that exerts an antigravitational force. We don't know of any such matter at the moment, but theoretically it could exist. The idea is now particularly championed by Russian scientist Igor Novikov.

If - in the distant future - we could construct a wormhole, we could pass through it and, in an instant, travel from the Earth to the Moon, or Mars or the planet of a distant star. Thorne and Novikov have even devised ways of using a wormhole as a time machine. If, in the far future, someone stumbled across the entrance to a suitabl wormhole, he could step through it and travel backwards to any point up to the time when the wormhole was first created. So, the first we might know that a scientist somewhere has created a wormhole is the moment when tourists from the future start arriving!

'BIZARRE OBJECTS'

Igor Novikov of the Theoretical Astrophysics Centre in Copenhagen likes to speculate on what would happen if you joined two black holes together to make a wormhole: 'Wormholes are real bizarre objects. We can imagine a wormhole as two holes nd some kind of tnnel between them. But this tunnel is not in our space. It's in some case of hyperspace, outside of our dimension (He's using the word 'dimension' erroneously here. Our universe is made up of 10 dimensions, and the 11th dimension is what all the existing universes float around in as membraneous bubbles. When two collide, a new universe is spawned. If wormholes ever exist, Novikov is saying that they wil be in the 11th dimension - Anna).'

To make a wormhole, we would have to engineer spacetime. First, bend it until it begins to form a black hole but not so much that a singularity is born. Them join the bottom of this gravity tunnel to the bottom of a second tunnel to make two holes connected by a continuous tube through hyperspace. Step three would be to move one hole to wherever it was that you wanted to travel.

'One of them could be near our Earth,' speculates Novikov, 'another in another galaxy. But this tunnel could be extremely short - say, a few metres.'

The tunnel would also be very fragile, prone to collapse as soon as a traveller attempted to pass through it. But if we could develop the technology to tame the ferocious forces at work, we would have opened an interstellar shortcut. Says Novikov: 'We could travel from one galazy to another in,let's say, a few seconds.'

Whereas a black hole is a one-way street with a dead end at the singularity, a wormhole could be a freeway to the stars. Oxford University's Sir Roger Penrose thinks differently. 'These things are driven by romantic science fiction ideas, which is fine - a lot of science is driven that way and you do good things - but it seems to me that, according to the scientific evidence, this is not going to happen, it is not possible.' (Shut it, you killjoying old fart.)
This is, of course, all assuming that black holes exist. Although there is great scientific evidence for them, no-one has seen one and we cannot prove they exist.

Oddsville 07-16-2002 11:16 AM

I always thought we could prove they exsist. We have seen areas in space where any object passing by (including light) gets sucked in one direction then disappears, we just can't see the black hole itself because... well, it dosn't really have color. Although this isn't exact proof, it's still enough to get me belivin.:fuzwink:

Wil 07-16-2002 06:39 PM

:

Although there is great scientific evidence for them, no-one has seen one and we cannot prove they exist.
Really? I thought they had found black holes, and even super black holes at the centre of all galaxies. Unless Horizon was lying, or not pointing out that the entire hour-long program was based on theories.

:

Depends on what you mean.
And so begins the Science Squad.

Were we talking about Glukkons?

Mac the Janitor 07-16-2002 06:48 PM

Yeah, how'd we get from Glukkons to black holes?

Wil 07-16-2002 07:10 PM

We were talking about how Oddworld's scientific background is different to ours.

Mac the Janitor 07-16-2002 07:18 PM

Ah. Ok. I must have dozed off.

*body goes limp, loud snoring heard*

Kaimana 07-17-2002 12:47 AM

so now that we got this far what is the case or reasoning of the M.O.M? and what are the historic backgrounds of the three executives Phleg, Dripik, and Aslik?

Jacob 07-17-2002 01:20 AM

M.o.M was originally brought about by the Gluk Mafia. Thats all i know...

Intern_485 07-17-2002 01:35 AM

Glukkons' Legs
 
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that the Glukkons once had legs that they walked on. Executive worker class Glukkons walk on their hands because their legs are only "vestigial" stubs. Since vestigial is defined as a remnant of something that had once existed, it is apparent that the Glukkons once had four limbs rather than the two that you see in the past Oddworld games. You can see the tiny little "legs" hanging from Molluck in Abe's Oddysee's good ending when his suit is electrocuted off. (They're not what he was walking on.)

Kaimana 07-17-2002 01:38 AM

Well they may seem useless but are still concidered limbs. so are you suggesting that they used to walk on there feet other then hands?

Intern_485 07-17-2002 02:23 AM

Yes
 
Yes, because of Oddworld Inhabitants' use of the word "vestigial." That would mean that their legs were once larger, more muscular and a hell of a lot more useful than they are now. I just don't know what happened to Glukkons' legs.

Kaimana 07-17-2002 02:29 AM

Well we find that Glukkons were desendents of octigi. and as we can see in the family pic that the Glocktigi has octopus tentacles. whatever happend to the legs is a form of evolution there came a time were the legs were not needed. why i dont know?:fuzconf: i suppose a theory can be made.

Mac the Janitor 07-17-2002 03:19 AM

Welcome, Intern 483!

Wow, that's interesting. I've never heard of that before...

One, Two, Middlesboogie 07-17-2002 01:02 PM

Although the definition of 'vestigial' is a now-useless (or nearly useless, in the case of the Glukks; I reckon they can still use their legs for holding things) remnant of something once used a lot (like our vestigial tail vertebrae, nictitating membranes and appendices [which were once caecums]), I don't think that the Glukkons ever walked on their legs. It is highly unlikely that the two pairs of limbs could swap functions like that. If you look at the picture of the octigi family, the Gloktigi and one of the 0.something ones (the small one; not the one supposedly in the mafia) are standing on their front limbs. I reckon the Glukkons used their legs for picking up and manipulating things, and that they had opposable toes as well as opposable thumbs (like a lot of Earthly primates [in fact, I think humans must be the only primates without opposable toes]). But now they use the Sligs do do all their work for them, so their legs have at least atrophied if not become vestigial.
When Molluck has his clothes burned off in AO, he appears to only have one toe on each foot, which would mean that his legs are useless and vestigial (you can't manipulate much with one digit), unless the Glukkons have one large toe and one or two smaller ones (like ostriches, emus and rheas) on each foot that we didn't see.

To answer Kaimana's questions:

so now that we got this far what is the case or reasoning of the M.O.M?

I don't think it's anything less innocuous or more suspicious than an ordinary news network, like CNN or London Tonight.

and what are the historic backgrounds of the three executives Phleg, Dripik, and Aslik?

I've long had a theory that Phleg is not in fact one of the many children of Queen Margaret. He looks totally different from all his peers. His skin is a totally different colour (all the other Glukks are purplish-brown [apart from the Brewmaster, who's greenish because he spends so much time amongst vats of chemicals], but Phleg's more yellowy-chestnut brown), he's far chunkier, wider and more prognathous, and his eyes are a lot closer together. I reckon that there are in fact several queens in each species (although Skillya is the only Slig queen that the Cartel knows about; the others must be in hiding), and Margaret is simply the main, or leading Glukkon queen, and her children get priority for job places in the Cartel. Phleg probably had to get quite a few strings pulled (I like to think that he's also more intelligent than most Cartelian Glukks) to get such a high position in the Magog world.

Oddsville 07-17-2002 01:11 PM

Hmmm, I like that Idea Middlesboogie. I could quite possibly be true (and I think it is). I would love to hear about other Glukkon queens that are lower than Maggie, prehaps Lulu came from a different Gluk queen? But I kinda doubt it sience Maggie was gonna have Lulu be the proprioter to Rupture Farms.